A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment Mod 2

[Defunkt 431]

Any mod that tells me I'm scared, sad, homesick, optimistic, pre-menstrual, whatever is going in the bin. For me, the entire point of a first person simulation is to evoke responses in me, the player.

[Callsign 128]

That's completely not what i'm saying. A game will make you have the mental effects of being scared, but the whole point is how to replicate the physical effects in game that you won't have (such as weapon sway).

[Evil_Echo 11]

We'll listen to all ideas. Of course some will be no, some will be yes. Some might be answered in ways that you may not even expect.

Like the stamina system and fear. If you are burdened with a heavy pack and it's absolutely time to run - drop the pack and run like hell.

[Chunk3ym4n 10]

I honestly think you should NEVER EVER add any artificial limits in games like these. Making it so that I'm just relaxed while in-game I am scared as hell does not relate which REALLY breaks the immersion of the game and only in my opinion makes it worse. Why should my guy be shaking when I am not? Why should my aiming be worse? So what if a person is scared like hell if they are getting shot at. Maybe some guy won't be scared which breaks the realistic aspect. I say it's the shittiest idea you could think about on this mod. If it's in this game I won't download it, sorry for sounding like an ass but things like this just don't belong in a mil-sim when all you want is ACCURATE representation without artificial things such as fear or anger because you can't determine how angry or scared a soldier is. Emotions from the character in-game and not you is a NO GO in a simulator.

Also if you get too tired from sprinting do you automatically go prone or do you black out?

[Thirdup 0]

Also if you get too tired from sprinting do you automatically go prone or do you black out?

In the original ACE if you were overloaded and tried to sprint, you'd start to black in/out after 10-20 paces. Around 30 paces, you begin to pant like a dog and fall face-first to the prone position. You couldn't fire, see, nor stand. You'd lay there panting and defenseless for about a minute.

[mr_centipede 31]

My problem with the stamina system for me is the AI dont know how to control their fatigue... so in an engagement they go running around, fainted and got shot. dont know if the AI will shoot the fainted guy, but I know I would. Then again, sometimes I dont even know if I'm beating a dead horse (that is a plus btw). So I guess, it needed a threshold for AI. reach this limit, they cant run, not even jog. only walk. But they wouldn't get fainted ever. Not really a solution then.

Just my piece of an idea. I know you guys ACE team will come out with something

Edited October 10, 2009 by Mr_Centipede

[tractorking 10]

From some of the responses it seems that realism is only a good thing when it benefits you.

I like these ideas of varying accuracy depending on the pulse and emotion of the shooter. It is what happens in real life.

Just last night I was listening to a radio show that had many current and former police officers discussing things that happened in high intensity situations.

One of the callers told a story where he and his rookie partner pulled over a car and the passengers opened up on them with Tech 9 and Uzi's. He dove back into the car for cover and after a few seconds of firefight the car speed away. So the guy looks over to see if his partner is ok and she is nowhere to be seen, so he's starting to freakout and radio'd that he couldnt find his partner.

In the mean time the support vehicles were arriving and he was stunned to see his partner in on of the command vehicles...how did she get there????

Well....apprently....when the shooting started she got scared and ran...the command vehicle spotted her hiding behind a dumpster 2 blocks away........

Fight or Flight!

Whether you like it or not in real life we sometimes do not have control over our faculties.

Any mod that tells me I'm scared, sad, homesick, optimistic, pre-menstrual, whatever is going in the bin. For me, the entire point of a first person simulation is to evoke responses in me, the player.

The challenge is to do this on a 17in monitor while you are sitting in your robe with a cup of coffee in the security of your own home.

But since we dont get a shock of pain when you get shot we have things like health meters and when you are dead the game tells you so.

So....since they cannot literally harm you, you will never be affected physically. (ie: adreneline makes it hard to control the mouse...and I cant see the screen because ofthe sweat in my eyes)

In the case of games you are playing a characture, someone else, your in thier shoes.

Im pretty sure of this because I dont own an M16 but I can seem to shoot things just fine when I am in charature.

So the blood, sweat and tears has to be generated artificially to make you feel as though you are scared and injured. You need these aural and visual cues because you cant feel bullets in your back. They are telling you that something is happening and how you choose to respond will decide whether you live or die.

For example:

If you play a game where you are invincible and can run around and shoot things with impunity (I think theres a new CM game but I cant remeber the title :) )after the initial thrill of watching things blow up you will probably be pretty bored running and gunning,(I assume this because we are in the ARMA forum and not COD)

What keeps you going in ARMA is the frustration, suprise and difficulty in trying to outwit your enemy. There is also a great sense of satisfaction and accomplishment to completing a difficult task against the odds and this equals FUN.

There are very few games that scared me....Resident Evil was scary, BF Vietnam was scary when the vietcong AI stabbed you several times from the bush with a bayonet acctually the BF AI in general were kinda scary whether asian or european.

But ARMA AI dont have that scare factor unless you get suprised by the guy around the doorway who kills you. ARMA AI are less cinema and more milsim.

So to make you feel these feelings you have to create immersion and effects and lighting and dialouge so the User (you) can understand what the Characture is going through.

I like this type of play and makes you feel more human and vulnerable, rather than a blob of pixels moving around other pixles shooting pixel bullets at pixel things.

I mean really...were you ever scared playing PONG.

Just my 2 cents....looking forward to the completed mod.

Edited October 10, 2009 by tractorking
wromg quote

[Defunkt 431]

The challenge is to do this on a 17in monitor while you are sitting in your robe with a cup of coffee in the security of your own home.

That is exactly the challenge but there are right and wrong ways to address that challenge. Audio and video are the principal tools, forcing a player to feel and act a particular way is the wrong way to deal with short-comings in what can be achieved with those tools. To use your police shoot-out example, you're suggesting it is the prerogative of the game to make me turn and run and even decide (because I am incapable) which way I run, personally for me, there will no longer be any point in playing. If I want to raise the stakes and increase the importance of surviving in the simulation, there are other mechanisms I can choose like playing for a clan in a competition, that is an appropriate tool to make me anxious to survive. It is counter-immersive to simply say "you are now anxious".

[Chunk3ym4n 10]

From some of the responses it seems that realism is only a good thing when it benefits you.

I like these ideas of varying accuracy depending on the pulse and emotion of the shooter. It is what happens in real life.

Just last night I was listening to a radio show that had many current and former police officers discussing things that happened in high intensity situations.

One of the callers told a story where he and his rookie partner pulled over a car and the passengers opened up on them with Tech 9 and Uzi's. He dove back into the car for cover and after a few seconds of firefight the car speed away. So the guy looks over to see if his partner is ok and she is nowhere to be seen, so he's starting to freakout and radio'd that he couldnt find his partner.

In the mean time the support vehicles were arriving and he was stunned to see his partner in on of the command vehicles...how did she get there????

Well....apprently....when the shooting started she got scared and ran...the command vehicle spotted her hiding behind a dumpster 2 blocks away........

Fight or Flight!

Whether you like it or not in real life we sometimes do not have control over our faculties.

The challenge is to do this on a 17in monitor while you are sitting in your robe with a cup of coffee in the security of your own home.

But since we dont get a shock of pain when you get shot we have things like health meters and when you are dead the game tells you so.

So....since they cannot literally harm you, you will never be affected physically. (ie: adreneline makes it hard to control the mouse...and I cant see the screen because ofthe sweat in my eyes)

In the case of games you are playing a characture, someone else, your in thier shoes.

Im pretty sure of this because I dont own an M16 but I can seem to shoot things just fine when I am in charature.

So the blood, sweat and tears has to be generated artificially to make you feel as though you are scared and injured. You need these aural and visual cues because you cant feel bullets in your back. They are telling you that something is happening and how you choose to respond will decide whether you live or die.

For example:

If you play a game where you are invincible and can run around and shoot things with impunity (I think theres a new CM game but I cant remeber the title :) )after the initial thrill of watching things blow up you will probably be pretty bored running and gunning,(I assume this because we are in the ARMA forum and not COD)

What keeps you going in ARMA is the frustration, suprise and difficulty in trying to outwit your enemy. There is also a great sense of satisfaction and accomplishment to completing a difficult task against the odds and this equals FUN.

There are very few games that scared me....Resident Evil was scary, BF Vietnam was scary when the vietcong AI stabbed you several times from the bush with a bayonet acctually the BF AI in general were kinda scary whether asian or european.

But ARMA AI dont have that scare factor unless you get suprised by the guy around the doorway who kills you. ARMA AI are less cinema and more milsim.

So to make you feel these feelings you have to create immersion and effects and lighting and dialouge so the User (you) can understand what the Characture is going through.

I like this type of play and makes you feel more human and vulnerable, rather than a blob of pixels moving around other pixles shooting pixel bullets at pixel things.

I mean really...were you ever scared playing PONG.

Just my 2 cents....looking forward to the completed mod.

But HOW would you make an accurate depiction of scaredness or fear inside a game? We all don't know since it varies. The problem is that it's artificial and limiting towards the player. The example of the police with the shooting you wrote about the fight and flight would be completely shit inside Arma 2. Players inside Arma 2 MP already know fight or flight. Hell a lot of people playing in ArmA 2 would flight when they would spot 20 soldiers at 1000 meters in front of them. You are acting like players automatically do not care about themselves and will shoot at the enemies even if outnumbered like the AI do. So if we have it your way Tractorking if I have X amount of enemy soldiers in front of me I will have Y amount of shaking on my hands and run away? How would it feel to just go somewhere and then just see a group of soldiers and to automatically run away and lose control of your character? I think ArmA 2 is possibly the most immersible game I have played and it is because I FEEL like I am in Cheranus, I don't feel like I am controlling a character who is walking in Cheranus. The way to ruin the immersion and blow it sky high is if playing the game I just killed a person and then my aim is all wobbly since it says "You are now sad since you killed a person" or if some people were shooting me it would say "You now can run 2x longer since you are scared"

Sorry Tractorking but I think your asking something that is too redundant. It's like saying that in Arma 2 the screen should go black every 10 seconds so that your player could blink and running makes you blink more. WELL you already blink in real life, you ALREADY have emotions in real life. Even if you had these features inside the game, what would have accomplished? The video game playing the game instead of the player playing the game. Leave the emotions up to the person playing the game, instead of the character inside the game.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Chunk3ym4n

[Smurf 12]

The AI is been modded to deal with the gameplay changes at any aspect?

What about transportation\logistics, any major change?

Changes in vehicles handling?

Changes in the graphics, mainly in particles?

Many questions cause I can barely wait for this release...

Edited October 10, 2009 by Smurf

[sparks50 0]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Features_of_ACE2 Edited October 10, 2009 by sparks50

[TheDecline 10]

As long as the jelly doughnut soldiers go, I'll try ACE2.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just wonder if all visual and sound effects could be implemented as optional settings for mission designers? So these effects are "well done" or "overdone" by mission design not by ACE2.

Or just a (server) config file where people can setup/tweak ACE2 features?

[SASrecon 0]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Features_of_ACE2

Wow i'm loving the new guide :)

really looking forward to this mod just like its predecessor.

[RUKH 0]

I just posted this in the Addon request thread but I thought I would post it here too as this is my favourite mod.

Would it be possible to make an addon for sniper rifles to adjust parallax?

Like the GMJ adjustable scope mod but adding the third adjustment turret to get a "ballpark reading" on what distance your target is....blurry crosshair means you have to adjust the "range/parallax" on your scope to get focused thus getting a range on your target. (The mod could be restricted to showing range in increments of 50/100 yards)

I seem to recall that no US military scope has the range markings since they are seldom 100% accurate but since the real world is blessed with depth-perception and computergames are not...I would call it a somewhat fair trade.

[Smurf 12]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Features_of_ACE2

Thanks. Last time I visited that page were only the ACE1 features.

Now we have some new stuff.

[gunterlund21 10]

Looked at the wiki for ACE2 and it looks like a fantastic set of parameters. This may have been mentioned but I hope this version will include a mortar system like jones. Also portable like the .50cal.

[Evil_Echo 11]

Just be aware - the documents, like ACE2 itself, are a work in progress. With all the standard disclaimers that come with that status.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Can I talk about Project Pandora now that it's scrapped?

[Chunk3ym4n 10]

In this version could you make it so that being exhausted running too much would make you go prone? I don't think it's realistic to be exhausted after sprinting and black out. Maybe make it so that if you sprint too long you automatically go prone for 10 seconds because you are fatigued.

[Evil_Echo 11]

As I have said - the stamina system is being rewritten and retuned. During play testing I have been quite pleased with the changes.

[Trauma.au 10]

As I have said - the stamina system is being rewritten and retuned. During play testing I have been quite pleased with the changes.

Sweet.

[stebbi92 0]

I can't wait for this mod, but one thing i would like to see is a wider range of wounds if possible, in ArmA 1 99% of the time someone got shot it was just a field dressing and morphine that you needed (sometimes epinephrine). I never got the chance to use any of the other medical supplies, although i sometimes carried them with me (i played a LOT as a field medic). But overall this mod is looking great, and i hope it changes ArmA 2 as much as it changed ArmA 1 gameplay :)

Shame no one seems to play ACE anymore.. All the time i see only russians on that one sever always on the same map :O Are there any units of some sort that play ACE?

[Aelin 10]

big quote to stebbi92

[sparks50 0]

Other than Shac tactical, it seems like most clans and communities have left ACE for Arma 2.

I used to play a lot on Tactical Gamer, but after Arma 2 came out, the ACE server became deserted. A shame I think, I had a lot more fun with Arma 1 in its final days of life, than I have with Arma 2 now.

Other than ACE 2 arriving, I really hope BI fixes the VON. Its hard to understand why it work so bad in Arma 2, when it seemingly is the same thing that worked so well in Arma 1 after some patches.