Armed Assault Video E3 Presentation

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]Never questioned how one single squad of humans can take over 5 russian bases,destroy 3 russian tank platoons and kill a reinforced infantry battalion in the meantime?

I certainly have.

True, but then again there are some missions which are very random and have intelligently set up AI positions and tactics where even large group of human players can face serious problems. Of course I would like to see AI improved a lot but I also understand it is very hard to program to operate intelligently in open terrain, one horrible example is the AI in Delta Force series. Even most current tactical CQB games just rely on pre-scripted AI actions and fast reflexes to produce an illusion of intelligent AI. So I would expect the significantly improved AI will be seen in Game 2 but not perhaps in AA.

OFP currently has 'Super-AI' option which makes AI have very fast shooting reflexes and movement (a bit of a AI challenge cheat), perhaps there could be slider to adust this instead of on/off setting. Or maybe 'Super-AI' could be adjusted for each soldier in the mission editor and not by server settings. Some spec ops AI's really could have faster reflexes than the current skill max in the editor.l Ultimately it would be best to have different adjustable skills in the editor for shooting accuracy, situational awereness, reflexes, speed, etc. but that's not probably in AA.

[Friedchiken 0]

Quote[/b] ]Never questioned how one single squad of humans can take over 5 russian bases,destroy 3 russian tank platoons and kill a reinforced infantry battalion in the meantime?

I certainly have.

True, but then again there are some missions which are very random and have intelligently set up AI positions and tactics where even large group of human players can face serious problems. Of course I would like to see AI improved a lot but I also understand it is very hard to program to operate intelligently in open terrain, one horrible example is the AI in Delta Force series. Even most current tactical CQB games just rely on pre-scripted AI actions and fast reflexes to produce an illusion of intelligent AI. So I would expect the significantly improved AI will be seen in Game 2 but not perhaps in AA.

OFP currently has 'Super-AI' option which makes AI have very fast shooting reflexes and movement (a bit of a AI challenge cheat), perhaps there could be slider to adust this instead of on/off setting. Or maybe 'Super-AI' could be adjusted for each soldier in the mission editor and not by server settings. Some spec ops AI's really could have faster reflexes than the current skill max in the editor.l Ultimately it would be best to have different adjustable skills in the editor for shooting accuracy, situational awereness, reflexes, speed, etc. but that's not probably in AA.

I don't like the current "super-AI" system due to how it eliminates the differences between special troops and conscripts in the campaign. It also tends to break BIS's rather harrowing sneaking missions.

Hopefully the new AI difficulty settings will alter this current system.

[kroky 1]

I would reduce the viewdistance to the benefit of AI CPU share anytime. Anyway, who knows what is implemented in the version shown at E3 or not. It´s just that I thought that AI had already been overworked a lot as a result of OFP Elite. I´m still looking forward to the ArAs release. I do trust in BIS and I have confidence that they will leave us with a wide open mouth once more. That video maybe wasn´t the best example of ingame experience.

They rather should try to leave potential publishers with open mouth. I think this (E3) was one of the last chances to impress any publishers.

I really would like to work for BIS as a public relations advisor!

They make top products but they don't sell them top!

[maxqubit 1]

P.S: OFP has a Guard Waypoint before those Elite-fanatics come here again and present it as the holy grail

Did you play OFP:E?

If yes? Well is GUARD different implemented?

If no? .... uhmmm, wouldn't you say your remark is pretty lousy?

(btw, who is the fanatic here. Not me, i just enjoy OFP:E despite console hating OFP fanatics:P)

off topic: are there any improvements for player commanding his ai to use fortified positions?

In OFP there are "positions" that are highlighted for buildings such as an open house or bunker that are openings such as a window or corridor. The problem in the PC version is that it's hard to place the AI exactly where you want (they just move in the general vicinity), and then they just stare at the wall.

I got this idea when I was just playing "Clean Sweep II" and I'm trying my two AI guys in than abandoned sandbags fort (just outside the villiage) with proper firing views.

In this improved in Elite?

I can't answer this. I avoid inside of buildings for the most part because manouver is a pain (dunno why). But i will try it sometime.

The main point i was trying to make is that imo BIS must have improved the GUARD waypoint. I think a lot of AI logic is hidden in this and i like it a lot. Surprises me every damned time:)

If you follow my logic you must come to the conclusion that in fact an extended GUARD waypoint (or better the GUARD functionality) is the nearly only thing needed. The AI figures out the rest.

Like in rl. Isn't every soldier in the army on some kind of GUARD mode, and isn't it Command who decides when GUARD of certain individuals has to kick in. So, talking Mission Editor here, you put everybody on GUARD and the AI figures out the rest. This is not what one does in OFP but in OFP:E i see a trend toward this mechanism. There is still plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps in ArmA BIS has even bettered this functionality but for Game2 it is absolutely necessary to have this kind of functionality. Game2 is supposed to be a living world, imho in that case there is no place for waypoints/triggers anymore (only some general schema or something)

Sorry to be OT (but yes, i like to advocate some really good things of OFP:E)

[Friedchiken 0]

I keep trying to not say such things, but these PR guys really remind me of my diffential mathmatics professor. Nice guy, but couldn't speak english worth a damn. Few people ever came to lecture after the first 2 weeks.

Ok I'll say it, I was appalled by who was manning the stations. It's not their fault, but I hoped maybe they could have gotten a good english speaker to represent the game. They could have searched for a guy willing to work for free and just pay the work ticket to the convention. But then again it's hard to make work arrangements overseas.

Hopefully BIS can get another change for decent marketing.

[Heatseeker 0]

My impressions?

It rocks! Arma will be the killer game that will make me buy a whole new PC, perfect graphics on even greater scale.

In the past five years the industry made shit compared to what i just saw, Arma smokes all those self proclaimed AAA titles imo.

It felt very smooth and it seemed there was alot going on on that mission plus the graphical upgrade and animations seem spot on (minor bugs aside).

BIS have definetly been working hard. I understand how this "upgrade" can be more complex and hard to achieve than other "new" games out there.

My nitpicks on this alpha would be:

-The mix of USMC and USARMY units.

-The helicopter parachute (please not on veteran mode).

-The midgame character switching.

I wont bitch about the a.i. yet, we havent seen enough of it and how it can be "manipulated" in the editor .

I dont know why people are calling the OPF a.i. dumb, its still better than 100% scripted a.i., i dont really need CoD type a.i. in Arma .

Im off to watch it again, and again and dream about having it soon .

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I've gotta admit that the enemy A.I. in the GR:AW PC demo does an excellent job of taking cover, making it difficult to hit them with bullets. Too bad the friendly A.I. doesn't know how to do the same!

If the better-trained enemy troops in ArmA could be scripted to take cover like that, we'd have something even better.

[sv5000 127]

I think its all good..More OFP...you cant beat that in my books.

I to am a little perplexed about the mix of equipment, but that might tie into the story about US Forces pulling out.

They might include all branchs of the military and might explain why there are USMC choppers and probably USAF A10's lying around. One branch of the Armed forces does not go to war/conflict alone.

[guyguy1 0]

I agree with Uzi...every ghost recon game had excellent AI that ran away/took cover and hid under/behind stuff until you went by looking for it, or they would at least run to a corner or some form of cover and fire back. If such good AI could be created back in 2002 then im sure it can be done in 2006. IMO AI is the most important aspect of the game.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Like someone said above, a game with the scope of OFP means that CQB AI scripting into the engine would be a daunting task. I'm really not too worried about the AI that much, as long as I can still do my "assault the town" missions with relative realism.

[Heatseeker 0]

I agree with Uzi...every ghost recon game had excellent AI that ran away/took cover and hid under/behind stuff until you went by looking for it, or they would at least run to a corner or some form of cover and fire back. If such good AI could be created back in 2002 then im sure it can be done in 2006. IMO AI is the most important aspect of the game.

I disagree 100%. GR's a.i didnt even touched OPF's...

The only 1 good thing about it was that sometimes they would run behind some rock but those events were problably just scripted into the missions. Other than that they just sniped with AK74's.

They wouldnt run out of amunition and grab some, they wouldnt provide medical treatment, they couldnt handle a tank, a helicopter, a motorcycle, a jet... ence they didnt even know how to fill a gas tank (ehe ), they didnt use formations or retreat after taking several casualties, they didnt need and used binoculars or nvg's, they would walk slowly towards their certain death, they could see and shoot thru very thick fog, they were static targets inside small buildings, they would talk and reveal their presence in the most stupid fashion...

If i was to discribe the friendly a.i. in ghost recon i would clutter the thread with even more off topic posting, the reason you could switch betwean characters in GR was to prevent them from acting stupid, wich happened every 3 seconds .

OPF's a.i. is far from perfect but it can perform alot of actions that most other games dont/cant even handle and they can be very unpredictable and even dynamic. They interact with most aspects of the game and the huge environment and you can do alot with them in the mission editor with very little effort.

They do need fine tuning but they are still the best a.i. i ever played with/against. You guys should consider not only what the a.i. cant do but everything else they can do, wich is alot more than you will find in any other game .

Keep that in mind...

[Blanco 0]

Quote[/b] ]They do need fine tuning but they are still the best a.i. i ever played with/against.

I agree when you're talkin' about unscripted AI.

[gonk 0]

Looking great!! 3 months ?? I hope they add a fall to the ground option... If you are getting shot at you don't gently lie down and get comfortable. You fall forward (not dive) , like you have tripped. Much faster and cleaner way to lie down.

[berghoff 11]

Is there any detailed info about the hardware used on this demo machine? SimHQ preview states it's high-end Dell XPS but that's it...

Maybe its this one but there was an SLI logo so there might be 2 GF cards in the system perhaps.

[shinRaiden 0]

I don't think that the box specs and performance one way or another of the demo at E3 are directly related. My personal unsubstantiated gut hunch is that IDEA rented a PC locally, wanted a high-spec one, and for all we know it still had the M$/Dell video drivers on in and they didn't have time or admin access to tune the box. You can always blame the percieved poor performance on misconfigured rentals, but no performance is a reflection on your product, regardless of who's fault it really is. In the video the ground terrain detail was imho noticablely very low, but then again they were trying for a smoothness impression, and any latency in the system would impact negatively and unfairly the whole system.

[hardrock 1]

Very well said, Heatseeker!

[dinger 1]

Off-topic:

The Guard waypoint in standard OFP works pretty well. At the sign of contact, the squad moves to engage where it thinks the contact is -- often over very long distances (I've had GUARD infantry seek out and destroy the mortar section that was shelling them 4 clicks away). The key is to mix things up in AI. For example, in a platoon charge, you could send a heavy weapons squad to a controlling point of terrain, then send two platoons forward (open fire, engage). Have a final platoon hang back, on guard. In theory, the initial charge engages and fixes the enemy, then the guard group comes in and wipes them out.

On topic:

Interesting video. I wonder if the folks at IDEA knew there was a camera running. I almost cringed when the conversation turned to Codemasters, but he handled it diplomatically enough.

[maxqubit 1]

Never mind

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

looking no bad for WIP but the anims are very unnatural

[Heatseeker 0]

guerilla @ May 16 2006,12:53)]looking no bad for WIP but the anims are very unnatural

I find them very fluid and smooth, some trnasitions are a bit rough but its a beta afterall and the animations were done not too long ago .

More constructive feedback!

The 3rd person camera is too far from the models, i hope they make it closer so that 3rd person cheaters/abusers dont exploit the game, the way it is now is way too open for abuse.

Just a reminder .

[Randy 0]

Nice movie. I really like the animations of the units and the terrain.

But its kind of sad to see such a AI. While the AI of flashpoint was advanced 5 years ago. Its far from impressive these days. Specially regarding close combat and team support/communication. I think BIS really should take another look at the AI before they decide to ship AA in 2 months.

The transitions between animations were absolutely terrible! The guy goes from a brisk pace, straight into a full blown run within a microsecond and then manages to stop in the same amount of time and go into a crouch.

I'll give BIS the benefit of the doubt and say that it's probably very much WIP, I fervently hope so anyway.

It's good to hear that centred aim can be turned off.

Everything else looked good except for the very bad animation transitions.

[martinovic 0]

Nice movie. I really like the animations of the units and the terrain.

But its kind of sad to see such a AI. While the AI of flashpoint was advanced 5 years ago. Its far from impressive these days. Specially regarding close combat and team support/communication. I think BIS really should take another look at the AI before they decide to ship AA in 2 months.

The transitions between animations were absolutely terrible! The guy goes from a brisk pace, straight into a full blown run within a microsecond and then manages to stop in the same amount of time and go into a crouch.

I'll give BIS the benefit of the doubt and say that it's probably very much WIP, I fervently hope so anyway.

It's good to hear that centred aim can be turned off.

Everything else looked good except for the very bad animation transitions.

I really don't think those are final anims. BIS aren't blind. There are reasons why the game isn't released yet.

[lwlooz 0]

Greetings,

I know I shouldn't have mentioned the Guard-Waypoint.Because I know on the big scale the AI in OFP is top-notch and that part of the game can be enhanced by scripts(AI-Scripts,Waypoints or a Human OPFOR-Commander) [On that note,does anyone know if there is like onEngagement EventHandler in VBS that lets you determine when the AI group gets into a battle].

Anyways,due to my lousy wording there was probably a misunderstanding. My main concern is the AI in engagements.Because they do the waypoint stuff fine now.Its just they so easily get killed getting into any fight.

Goodie, I will leave it at that then

[Randy 0]

I really don't think those are final anims. BIS aren't blind. There are reasons why the game isn't released yet.

Thats what everybody said about Bethesda with Oblivion, even after the general public complained very loudly for many years about Morrowind's animations.

After the first video for Oblivion came out, people criticised the basically the jerky unnatural animations exclusively, even journalists took note of the bad animations. 6 months later, another video comes out, same problem, nothing had been done.

I browsed the forums over the entire development cycle and that was one of the most brought up topics "please give us a smooth animation system".

A game that has over 10 million dollars in funding, a massive fanbase and is sure to make a massive profit, with the utmost graphical standard. But it was sullied by a glaringly bad animation system.

Talk about the pink elephant in the corner of the room.

Anyway, the moral of this rant is: I do have a lot of respect for BIS, even faith in them.

But I also had respect for and faith in Bethesda, for actively participating in the forums and even listening to the concerns of a majority of their fans at one point.

I believed that yes, they arn't simply re-wrapping their game in expensive, shader model 3 gift paper, to dazzle the more impressionable of gamers.

My point here, is that a believable animation system is what ties all the graphics together, it demonstrates a lovingly crafted game and a pursuit for digital excellence.

[martinovic 0]

I really don't think those are final anims. BIS aren't blind. There are reasons why the game isn't released yet.

Thats what everybody said about Bethesda with Oblivion, even after the general public complained very loudly for many years about Morrowind's animations.

After the first video for Oblivion came out, people criticised the basically the jerky unnatural animations exclusively, even journalists took note of the bad animations. 6 months later, another video comes out, same problem, nothing had been done.

I browsed the forums over the entire development cycle and that was one of the most brought up topics "please give us a smooth animation system".

A game that has over 10 million dollars in funding, a massive fanbase and is sure to make a massive profit, with the utmost graphical standard. But it was sullied by a glaringly bad animation system.

Talk about the pink elephant in the corner of the room.

Anyway, the moral of this rant is: I do have a lot of respect for BIS, even faith in them.

But I also had respect for and faith in Bethesda, for actively participating in the forums and even listening to the concerns of a majority of their fans at one point.

I don't know anything about morrowind as i never even saw pics of it. But, what i do know is that original flashpoint had nice and smooth transitions between animations, so i hope ArmA will have it too.