European Politics Thread.

[kernriver 4]

Oh my God, will this ever stop....:(

It's a miracle that human race haven't obliterated itself in a nuclear war yet.

My sympathy to Norwegians.

[vilas 477]

but it was not on civilians (i mean usual working people, not politicians, elites) ? it was on government building ? or as they write in the internet on one yellow-press newspaper which is in the same building ?

[Col. 10]

but it was not on civilians (i mean usual working people, not politicians, elites) ? it was on government building ? or as they write in the internet on one yellow-press newspaper which is in the same building ?

Both Government buildning and civilian buildnings, + a youth politics camp.

[vilas 477]

for usual people (workers, tax payers, office workers, shop assistants etc.) i feel sorry, for politicians (especially on high tables, banksters, leaders, false-promissers) not at all (because of their all dirty deeds, economy, crisis, corruption, bribes, wasting tax money, wrong and unjust decisions etc)

politicians are "bad guys" (like many of lawyers , bank owners etc.)

politicians lie to voters cause they feel untouchable

but at the moment nothing more news ? any reasons ? internal politics ? mad man ? foreign politics ? maybe mad man ?

Edited July 22, 2011 by vilas

[cri74 10]

Have to be a mad man to gun down a crowd of young people

Its a very sad thing and will change Norway forever

[*LK1* 10]

mmm that's for sure.

[vilas 477]

as in Norwegian topic moderation do not want continuation of reasons, so maybe here:

- and victims were politician youth

- seems like some people here do not understand real issues and want to close eye on third Newton rule, "each action has reaction":

- crisis hits people,

- government instead of taking care about jobs, allows immigrants (cause gov. protect only high-class and businessmen and banksters),

- people are angry and start terrror or revolution (cause only this way low-class will be heard),

it is natural

and i know it cause i live for 400-500 EU/monthly , Ralph you will never understand it if you live in good conditions and have money

and of course attack is because of politics (in this case seems because of inner politics)

statistic say that 2 milions of Poles left Poland because of lack of jobs, i have no idea how much Slovaks, how much Arabs, how much Ukrainians

but those people "work" somewhere and "take" jobs

so it makes people angry that they cannot get good job because employer pays less to immigrants, and people want governments to protect national market against cheaper competition (this whole EU idea is against it)

if politicians will not be listening to the people (specially low-class) there will be more of such things in Europe in other countries

cause gov. do not listen to poor and protect them (look at history, 1917 and communist revolution, it not happened because someone was boring, it happened because people lived in poverty and tsar was extremely rich )

rich do not respect poor unless they are not under the gun - oldest historical rule (French revolution, communist revolution and things which happened in my country after WW2 apart of being under Soviet Union etc.)

our politics in EU wants "too much economical freedom" which cause "cheaper worker flood" and "local people frustration" cause most of us "feel roots" and do not want to go anywhere for job but "have good life where i was born"

Edited July 23, 2011 by vilas

[ralphwiggum 6]

- people are angry and start terrror or revolution (cause only this way low-class will be heard),

it is natural

and i know it cause i live for 400-500 EU/monthly , Ralph you will never understand it if you live in good conditions and have money

and of course attack is because of politics (in this case seems because of inner politics)

I'm going to make this personal this one time since you called me out on this one.(I'm guessing you are refering to me when you said Ralph)

You don't know me.

You don't know how I lived.

You don't know what I did to better myself and live a middle class life.

I lived with about that much money, sometimes less when I was younger. When I was 18 I had just enough clothes to wear for 1 week, and some of them had holes in it. Economically, my family was very close to being qualified for foodstamp.

I bit my tongue and studied hard and when I graduated from college I graduated right into a recession. I kept on going, got my masters degree and now I can afford a few things in my life.

So don't act like you are holier than me because you live with that income. I was there and I perservered.

[vilas 477]

yea, but how to avance if there is no jobs, cause immigrants took it ? (last time my gov. wanted to hire Chinese and allow Ukrainians)

i am MSc since 10 years and in my country there is hard to get good job , many people emigrated (i do not want to take anyone HIS job in HIS country)

and i do not want to work 16 hours, cause i have dignity (i am human, not robot), i want earn according to labour codex (40 h/week + 26 days of holidays payed by year, like my parents had before 1989)

i do not want situation when my boss would say "we have Ukrainian here, he said he will take your duty for 200 EU, go away"

Edited July 23, 2011 by vilas

[ralphwiggum 6]

Suck it up and work then. Some of my former employers were monumental jerks or idiots, but I sucked it up and worked. Notice that I did my best to make myself more valuable. That wasn't easy, but I sucked it up and did it. You want a job? How about working like an immigrant? You have less dignity if you are not willing to work like them and complain about job situation not fitting your choice.

Yeah it sucks but you need to build up your resume/experience/skill.

[vilas 477]

Suck it up and work then.

no way, tak gun and fight

if there was no revolution, we still would have slavery (belonging to the nobles), king, and work 10% for church ("dziesiecina")

no education, no health care, no elections, no holidays

our good things in life (social care) is because in 1917 people fought

noone would give us for free 26 days of holidays in Labour Codex

Edited July 23, 2011 by vilas

[ralphwiggum 6]

every choice has consequences. I took one way, you are free to take another, but you will have to deal with consequence of your choice.

[vilas 477]

just like kings have to deal consequences of those whom they opress , look at human history

if there was no revolution, we still would have slavery (belonging to the nobles), king, and work 10% for church ("dziesiecina" - farm slave had to give 10% of his efforts to the local church )

no education, no health care, no elections, no holidays

our good things in life (social care) is because in 1917 people fought

noone would give us for free 26 days of holidays in Labour Codex

thanx to fight people now can work 40 h/week, not 60 ( and lack of any labour codex, lack of insurance if worker had accident in factory in 1900 etc.)

thanx to fight people had social care etc. (not even saying what we had before 1989)

only thanx to fight we can have more and live better , cause rich owner won't give anything, cause politican (who lie to people) won't fulfill his before-voting promisses etc.

you live in US as i see, completly other environment , completly other, you don't know our rights (specially how we lived , labour codex, social care etc.)

sad that people died, sad, but crisis and politicians and rich club (Bilderberg, IMF) caused all this

we really would have more peacefull life without "rich crown of banksters" above our head

-------

look at big companies

first worked/produced in US/EU

than took production to Poland, Ukraine, Czech/Slovakia etc.

than moved to India, China (also coding, IT , software work) look at support-info lines, you call to well known producer of printers or producer of photo-cameras , both have info operator in Ukraine not in Poland

you have t-shirt... "made in China" etc

look at this, no skills will help, when company owner wants to make machine for 1 USD and sell it for 1000

citizens emigrate because of "made in China" "programmed in India" etc.

you can be PhD, nothing will help you, if company find someone 4 times cheaper (workers in factories, coders, server keepers, webdesigners)

2 of my friends were fired by one codding company (they well know C++) cause coding went to India, and they worked for some years cause company from Germany moved to Poland, now from Poland to India

so your argument about improving skills is nonsense, even if i had PhD, it would not change politics of big companies which own all nowadays

Edited July 23, 2011 by vilas

[demonized 20]

Not following the whole discussion, but in relation to what just happened in my country:

This masacre is a sympthom of the all too long degradation of my country by its politicians.

We are having massive amounts of violent rapes and violent crimes done by foreigners, mostly from the islamic population, massive in our known terms, we are a small country.

Foreigners are given both jobs and benefits, that even native norwegians do not get.

Many of our own population live under or near the poverty line, while foreigners are given house, car, and economical benefits larger than any norwegian.

Our women are cautioned and afraid to go alone.

Our men are subjected to gang violences.

Our capitol is seeing alot of ghettos establishing themselves.

Our schools is overflowing with immigrants, making the average norwegian an outcast or minority in his own country in many schools.

Most of these issues are more noticable in our capitol Oslo, but all over the country its noticed.

Any critical discussion towards the immigration is marked "racist" right away.

Meanwhile, our hospitals do not have funds to provide adequat birthcare, healthcare for our norwegain population.

Our police forces are being cut down, and their area of operation is limited to bigger citys while tasked with providing "policing" for nearby smaller citys on a call if trouble occurs basis.

I myself lean more right than left in politics, and this idiot just made our job more difficult by doing this.

This is the morning of the masacre and loss of 91 of my fellow countrymen and women so any working discussion with the left side would be non existant and fully understandable, but we must not forget that this person however deranged, acted because of the current rule of state.

Prioritizing foreigners over native norwegians is the early onset sympthom, this radical idiot is the confirmed disease.

I welcome foreigners that come to Norway to work and live as norwegians.

I do not welcome those not wishing to adapt to norwegian culture and way of life.

I do not welcome a free open border for those wishing to suckle the tit of my country at the cost of my own people.

I do not welcome any EU participation from my country.

Anyway, this idiot just made the left side stronger, and most likely ensured that they get re elected yet again based on symphaty.

The politicians are already starting to reap the political harvest of this tragedy.

Today a nation is in mourning.

My thoughts go to all those that have lost their lives and those close to them.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Demonized

[demonized 20]

Just to make it perfectly clear, after reciving 2 PM´s from one person regarding my last post here.

I am no radical, i do not in any way think that my women wanting to f*** with a colored or a man other than my own countrymen is bad.

Immigration is not and have never been about sexual preference, "our women" can f*** a goat for all i care as long as its their choice and the goat agrees to it freely.

I have reported you to the moderators, given them copys of your PM´s.

If i was a moderator in any forum, and you posted a opinion like that in any thread i would have perma banned you for life for trashing the discussion.

This was in PM´s, but still reflects what kind of person you are, so i felt it was right to report you.

In my eyes, you are just short of being just as radical as the idiot that killed 91 of my fellow norwegians yesterday, and deserve no right to participate in any public discussions, nor should you be a member of this forum imo.

I was going to post your PM´s to me here for all to see you for what you really are, but decided to wait for and act on moderators response.

[Tonci87 163]

Jesus calm down, I don´t think this is the apropriate place for something like this. 91 of your countrymen died, show some respect

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Since I'm a Austro-Libertarian, I believe people have a right to move freely and live where they want, as long as they don't expect to live at the expense of the natives for making that decision.

My personal opinion is that that leftist and socialist support forced immigration because they believe the quicker all the races live together, the faster the world would turn into some Utopian society, color blind society. While it works in the United States, mainly because we are a land of immigrants, it doesn't work very well in most parts of Europe. In order to squelch any dissent that might appear, they use the old Leon Trotsky model of just calling someone a racist.

This isn't per say really about racism to most (it might seem that way in light of recent events), but a clear violation of the country's sovereignty. Once a culture is forced to change its culture, beliefs, social mores for its new guest, then you are eroding the country's sovereignty. That also seems to be paradigm that Leon Trotsky saw as the biggest road block to the Communist vision of Utopia.

[celery 8]

This masacre is a sympthom of the all too long degradation of my country by its politicians.

We are having massive amounts of violent rapes and violent crimes done by foreigners, mostly from the islamic population, massive in our known terms, we are a small country.

Foreigners are given both jobs and benefits, that even native norwegians do not get.

Many of our own population live under or near the poverty line, while foreigners are given house, car, and economical benefits larger than any norwegian.

Our women are cautioned and afraid to go alone.

Our men are subjected to gang violences.

Our capitol is seeing alot of ghettos establishing themselves.

Our schools is overflowing with immigrants, making the average norwegian an outcast or minority in his own country in many schools.

Most of these issues are more noticable in our capitol Oslo, but all over the country its noticed.

Any critical discussion towards the immigration is marked "racist" right away.

Meanwhile, our hospitals do not have funds to provide adequat birthcare, healthcare for our norwegain population.

Our police forces are being cut down, and their area of operation is limited to bigger citys while tasked with providing "policing" for nearby smaller citys on a call if trouble occurs basis.

I myself lean more right than left in politics, and this idiot just made our job more difficult by doing this.

This is the morning of the masacre and loss of 91 of my fellow countrymen and women so any working discussion with the left side would be non existant and fully understandable, but we must not forget that this person however deranged, acted because of the current rule of state.

Prioritizing foreigners over native norwegians is the early onset sympthom, this radical idiot is the confirmed disease.

I welcome foreigners that come to Norway to work and live as norwegians.

I do not welcome those not wishing to adapt to norwegian culture and way of life.

I do not welcome a free open border for those wishing to suckle the tit of my country at the cost of my own people.

I do not welcome any EU participation from my country.

Anyway, this idiot just made the left side stronger, and most likely ensured that they get re elected yet again based on symphaty.

The politicians are already starting to reap the political harvest of this tragedy.

Today a nation is in mourning.

My thoughts go to all those that have lost their lives and those close to them.

Finland is in a similar situation, albeit in a much earlier stage. For years, any kind of factual criticism of the effects of rampant immigration and its encouragement has been grounds for a bigot stamp on your forehead.

Earlier this year when a left-wing conservative party - endorsing moderate immigration, no part in the debt crisis and abolishment of obligatory Swedish in schools but with worryingly conservative Christian views - got a major victory in the parliamentary elections, the result was not a shift in those policies but almost all other parties establishing a weak, compromise-ridden rainbow coalition just to get a majority government that could rebuff any legislative proposition from that party. If that kind of politics persists, it can lead to serious political and social troubles.

[*LK1* 10]

This masacre is a sympthom of the all too long degradation of my country by its politicians.

We are having massive amounts of violent rapes and violent crimes done by foreigners, mostly from the islamic population, massive in our known terms, we are a small country.

Foreigners are given both jobs and benefits, that even native norwegians do not get.

Many of our own population live under or near the poverty line, while foreigners are given house, car, and economical benefits larger than any norwegian.

Our women are cautioned and afraid to go alone.

Our men are subjected to gang violences.

Our capitol is seeing alot of ghettos establishing themselves.

Our schools is overflowing with immigrants, making the average norwegian an outcast or minority in his own country in many schools.

Most of these issues are more noticable in our capitol Oslo, but all over the country its noticed.

Any critical discussion towards the immigration is marked "racist" right away.

maybe is time to do something....whatever it takes, im serious. im pissed off from this situation as you. you come to norway cuz you are poor? well respect the local population. the world is not a free place, is full of

borderlines (fortunately) builded with blood and cultural processes. respect for that.

[sweguy96 10]

@Demonized

It's almost the same situation here in sweden. There is almost no jobs here in sweden and still our government wants to take in more immigrants to our country. We have the highest reported rapes in europe, and second in the world. If you are criticising the (mass)immigration politics or the multicultural project here you will be called racist. And the majority of people here in sweden don't want the immigration we have now but they are too afraid to talk about it loud. And when there is a chance too vote to something new they don't vote on the immigration critical party, the sweden democrats, but on the other seven parties thats for pro-immigration. And thats because the established media media is alway throwing shit on SD (Sweden democrats) as soon as get the chance to. And thats because they was a kind of a neo-nazi party in the late 1980s to 1994 when they got a new leader of the party.

And one more thing: R.I.P to all your countrymen and women that lost their lives in this horrible terror attack!

[sudayev 27]

Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.

Quoting jack Nicholson from 'Easy Rider'

"You know, this used to be a helluva good country. I can't understand what's gone wrong with it."

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Meanwhile, in Sweden...

Road Shortage in Socialist Paradise

I have written much before on the state of Sweden, the mythical land of “working†socialism. Here is another example of how it seems to not work at all as the global myth has it. The huge discount store of Gekås in the small, 9,000-population town of Ullared in southern Sweden attracts 28,000 customers daily. Obviously, most of the customers are from out-of-town or even drive from far away to buy the heavily discounted goods at Gekås.

The problem with all these travelers is that the roads to Ullared are not even close to sufficient for this kind of traffic. This causes traffic jams and customers consequently end up spending time in their cars instead of in the discount store. Meanwhile, the central government’s road authority Trafikverket has done nothing to improve the roads to Ullared for the last 15 years. And they are not planning on doing anything either.

As a solution to this problem, which of course affects Gekås as it affects the small town of Ullared and the whole region, Gekås are offering a SEK 100,000,000 loan (approx. $16,000,000) to the road authority to improve the roads – at a very favorable interest rate. Gekås have already invested in the infrastructure in Ullared to support visits by their numerous customers, and this is obviously the next step. The road authority has not responded, but it is likely they will turn Gekås offer down. Private interests are generally not allowed to participate in the provision of public welfare and service. Or, as in this case, the non-provision of it.

Source:

http://blog.mises.org/17830/road-shortage-in-socialist-paradise/

[hellfire257 3]

_snip_

Fully agree with everything you said. IMO, the EU is sending Europe down the drain with its "politically correct" and "nicey-nicey" bullshit that in practice, does no good 75% of the time.

[Baff1 0]

@Demonized

We have the highest reported rapes in europe,

Do you feel that is becuase you have been swamped with rapists from abroad, or because your legal system has a very loose interpretation of the word "rape", that no other countries agree with?

[sweguy96 10]

Do you feel that is becuase you have been swamped with rapists from abroad, or because your legal system has a very loose interpretation of the word "rape", that no other countries agree with?

Well one reason is that we have been taking in people from countries that have an misogynist view of our women (people from the middle east and north africa). The other reason is that our punishments is too short. For example a man raped a girl and he only got 3 years or something like that.