European Politics Thread.

[Baff1 0]

selling national goods to foreign should be treated as nation trait

such things happened in my country in 90s, in effect we lost control on things placed on our own territory and noone was hanged yet :/

They did it my country in the 80's.

I can't say I noticed the difference as an end user. However, I did invest in all of them myself, (Everybody in the country got an allocation of stock options) and they have all turned me a decent profit.

More recently with the EU we have been forced to sell stuff off to foreign intrests. Airports, banks, ports etc due to competition laws. Once again I can't say I can actually tell as an end user.

A lot of people lost their jobs at the time however. So sucky for them, but good for the economy overall.

[vilas 473]

apart from Greece,

i seen in TV report about Marriage in Monaco

they told that woman escaped but was taken by force of Police to prince

???

is it possible that law in Europe can force someone to marry someone and be taken by police to marriage ?

or is it total bullshit that she was kept by police on airport and taken to prince, like they do it in worst third world countries with half-slavery ? is Monaco such banana-half-slavery country that use police to keep woman which not want to marry man ?

or once again Polish journalist told bullshit

[Mr. Charles 22]

apart from Greece,

i seen in TV report about Marriage in Monaco

they told that woman escaped but was taken by force of Police to prince

???

is it possible that law in Europe can force someone to marry someone and be taken by police to marriage ?

or is it total bullshit that she was kept by police on airport and taken to prince, like they do it in worst third world countries with half-slavery ? is Monaco such banana-half-slavery country that use police to keep woman which not want to marry man ?

or once again Polish journalist told bullshit

I can't imagine this being possible in Monaco. You guys should save some money and send this journalist to journalism school.

[Tonci87 163]

Im really don´t get it with greece. The Country is going to sell everything it has, the people are going to get even lower payments, the people won´t be able to buy stuff or invest into something. How are they going to revive the economy? This can´t work!

What I think will happen: Greece will sell everything it has for cheap money, even national companys that create income (total stupid bullshit) and greece will go bankrupt in a few years and not in a few months. Until then the EU will find a way that greece gets rid of the Euro so that it can go to hell in Peace without bothereing the rest of europe.

There is a very mean Game going on

[vilas 473]

Im really don´t get it with greece. The Country is going to sell everything it has, the people are going to get even lower payments, the people won´t be able to buy stuff or invest into something. How are they going to revive the economy? This can´t work!

What I think will happen: Greece will sell everything it has for cheap money, even national companys that create income (total stupid bullshit) and greece will go bankrupt in a few years and not in a few months.

+2 not even +1

yes, yes, yes

we have similar economist in Poland, he is Leszek Balcerowicz and Jan Lewandowski - both loved and leaded by George Soros in "reforming Poland in 90s"

they invented nice bullshit "we must save, people must earn less, people must be unemployed, eat less, it will revive Poland"

how it works ? of course it not works, thats why we are main emigrants in EU

anyone knows that :

- if you are unemployed, you have no money - you cannot buy

seller won't sell, wholesaler won't buy from factory, factory won't produce

effect of Balcerowicz "genial" thoughts that are now ... emigration and "even tomatoes in shops are Made in China, unemployed workers who producted fabric, but t-shirt is... Made in China too"

i think that some smaller countries politicians are not representing interests of own country

they are corrupted by bribes to make harm to own country (and owned media take care for people to convince to vote on them) - but to make profit for international big concerns and financial groups

it looks like politicians in many of our countries do not care at all about interest of own country economy

but care about interest of foreign big lobbies, like all were in Bilderberg group, not "own citizen"

now i can buy Greek sauce in shop, probably after reforms it will also be "made in China" but proud of history Greek Nation will have to look for job in cleaning British toilets along with my countrymen or in Germany if they know German language , cause even Spain now has no place to emigrate - they have unemployment themselves , also because of us - Poles, who had to emigrate there taking their jobs :/

due to such "reforms" we had in 2003 record of unemployment, over 20 % officially , 45% among young people and graduating !!! in 90s 20 000 people commit suicide because of poverty !!!

in result 1-2 milions emigrated leaving families, kids, wives, husbands etc.

liberalisation ... privatisation , yea, but who's gonna earn money and push economy (consumption) if you sell factory and cut production ?

Edited June 30, 2011 by vilas

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Italy May Raise Trading Tax

BY STACY MEICHTRY AND GILLES CASTONGUA

ROME—Italy's government is considering raising a tax on the money earned by banks from proprietary trading to 35% as it works on the final draft of a plan to cut its budget more than €40 billion ($57.48 billion) over the next three years, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The conservative coalition government of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi also is looking at ...

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304584004576416091468111786.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[ProfTournesol 956]

apart from Greece,

i seen in TV report about Marriage in Monaco

they told that woman escaped but was taken by force of Police to prince

???

is it possible that law in Europe can force someone to marry someone and be taken by police to marriage ?

or is it total bullshit that she was kept by police on airport and taken to prince, like they do it in worst third world countries with half-slavery ? is Monaco such banana-half-slavery country that use police to keep woman which not want to marry man ?

or once again Polish journalist told bullshit

Refusing the best job in the world sounds strange to me.

[Baff1 0]

Im really don´t get it with greece. The Country is going to sell everything it has, the people are going to get even lower payments, the people won´t be able to buy stuff or invest into something. How are they going to revive the economy?

The economy is over-inflated.

They aren't going to "revive the economy" at all.

It's going to undergo a period of correction at the end of which the greek people will be more or less returned to their economic state prior to joining the EU.

(Slightly poorer as they will still be repaying some of the debts they acquired since they joined).

The same is true for the rest of the EU. They aren't going to get out of the recession and pay back their debts through growth. It was chasing this bubble that got them where they are today. Their economies, that were inflated by borrowing for so many years are going to correct themselves and all become smaller more sustainable economies.

The global investment boom is over for now. Too many investors didn't get their money back.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Baff1

[vilas 473]

i am so pissed off with one information i get today

apart from Greece, but about wasting our tax money in EU by EU "funds, help" etc.

as we europeans know - there are "eu help" money to "fund" something

eu gave money to following project ... website about cats

yes, yes, cats

and EU gave ... 670 000 PLN (170 000 EURO!!!) to make simple website about cats ??

oh god, it is something crazy

making really good website cost ... 2000-3000 PLN in Poland

but EU gave 670 000 for it !!

and of course wasted cause "they couldn't manage and website is still w.i.p."

yours and my money go to someone who will make website about cats for over 170 000 EU ???

holy f*** , this EU should be burnt not only by Greeks or Spanish

over half milion of Polish Zlotys for website about cats http://swiatkotow.pl/informacja/#comments

www world of cats :/ 670 000 PLN / 170 000 of EURO, we could buy 3 equipped ambulances for hospital

i have two friends who are webmasters, they earn low money, they could do such website for 2500 PLN but corrupted EU funds such waste of money

this is just ONE example

how much more of suchlike examples exist ? thousands

there is no "crisis" there are just "corrupted decision and wasting money"

money are, but they are being wasted all the time cause "someone must earn gold mountain"

poverty and crisis can be helped in few days, only arrest and execute thieves, corrupted clerks, those who WASTE tax money on different "foundations" from EU money (my money !!)

http://www.web.gov.pl/bazy-wiedzy/4_32_135_1353_swiat-kotow-platforma-e-uslug-dla-hodowcow-i-wlascicieli-kotow.html 672 010,00 PLN web.gov.pl <<< !

look at this second link too

when i read it, i feel sick that i pay taxes which are so wasted why f** website about damn cats must be done by PUBLIC tax money ??? than i demand from Polish and EU government to fund 1 000 000 000 website for my addons,

but instead of this they will say "Greek people must pay"

when Greek people will pay , money will be lost on ... hamsters website ? herring website ? or dog-shit website ?

where the hell do we live (EU) ? 170 thousands of Euro, while we must work whole month for 400

but next "politician's friend or cousin" will buy next Lexus, cause "he get EU funds" :(

Edited July 1, 2011 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

A Website for cats? For 170000€? The EU is just there to burn money it seems.

[vilas 473]

yes, you have confirmation in second link, use google translator

this is Polish EU government site with information about EU funds

[Tonci87 163]

Somehow I have the urge to smack someone...or to put him in a big bag full with cats, tie it up and then kick the bag to make those cats really angry

[vilas 473]

but instead of this "great spending on cats" now they "want to save" and horror act is prepared by parliament (for Poles it can be very very important - projekt ustawy o mieszkaniach komunalnych , project of act on state property of flats)

now (since communism) many many of our citizens work in flats which are state property , city property

you pay monthly rent

now they want seriously change it by rising rents , by forcing you to pay much much more and inheriting it will be very dificult

so many people can stay homeless due to liberal gov. (most of people do not read law, do not read projects of acts in parliament publications, they have only private TV which show "look how they dance" and news about "which actress sleep with which football player")

and if not homeless, than very very povert due to hiring flats for much more money (for example 50% of your monthly wage)

but for website about cats, footbal stadions for EURO they waste money :/

for Poles - read about proposal of act (projekt ustawy o ochronie lokatora, projekt o mieszkaniach komunalnych, dotyczy osób mieszkających w komunalnych ) cause one day you may wake up homeless

in some years people will regreat changes after 1989 and will be praying to Lukashenko - when you will wake up homeless or with hire rent 1200 for small flat while you earn 2000 , you will be eating bare bread and have no shoes if you vote not wise , but "someone" will have palace, private helicopters, dozen of Ferrari, Porshe, Lexus and another junk will get 170 000 EUro for cat's website from your tax (or from yours - Germans, French, Brits, you pay to EU budget, we make cat's websites)

https://picasaweb.google.com/112160154631302983944/Cats

here you got cats for free, not 170 000

...

edit

another message about wasting money , now because of Polish presidention in EU they decided to spend money on .. flowers on the streets

damn... getting crazy each day more

Edited July 1, 2011 by vilas

[Baff1 0]

+2 not even +1

yes, yes, yes

we have similar economist in Poland, he is Leszek Balcerowicz and Jan Lewandowski - both loved and leaded by George Soros in "reforming Poland in 90s"

they invented nice bullshit "we must save, people must earn less, people must be unemployed, eat less, it will revive Poland"

how it works ? of course it not works, thats why we are main emigrants in EU

anyone knows that :

- if you are unemployed, you have no money - you cannot buy

seller won't sell, wholesaler won't buy from factory, factory won't produce

effect of Balcerowicz "genial" thoughts that are now ... emigration and "even tomatoes in shops are Made in China, unemployed workers who producted fabric, but t-shirt is... Made in China too"

?

Actually one of the things I rather respect a lot about the Polish people, is that where in my country if there is no work, they will sit around complaining how there are no jobs... Polish people will travel to another country and find one.

My people won't travel 50 miles, but Polish people will travel to a whole new country, learn a new language... etc etc etc.

Some people have the balls to get ahead and other people are too weak of spirit.

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

another message about wasting money , now because of Polish presidention in EU they decided to spend money on .. flowers on the streets

I quite liked that they built themselves a second palace. Right next to the first one. Can't wait to see what their third one will look like.

[Spokesperson 0]

Good posts vilas.

But there is a world wide crisis, and it has existed for decades, however there's money and resources for all to live good lives. The problem is how money is distributed. The fruits of labor are owned by a few in capitalism. Certain people who don't contribute to production get the largest part by owning other peoples work (be it physical or intellectual) under police protection. With that money they pay for election campaigns, media and all other sorts of things making sure that everything stays the same. But sooner or later contradictions that are inherent in the system will make it fall apart. The collapse won't necessarily lead to something new, it can just restart the same process again, but it's dangerous as war monging populists like Hitler may get into power. Liberalism leads to fascism if there's no socialist movement (not social democrat) that can break the capitalist cycle. It is essential for everybody to take part in that process and actively prepare for something new. It's a struggle for the fate of the world, do we want to live under socialism or barbarism?

Most of the uprisings in the Middle East didn't lead anywhere, they just replaced one kind of front figure liberals with others. The system and its pillars are still the same. There were no revolutions, just revolts, as there was no socialist movement that could step in and make a real difference.

[Prydain 1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13997322

Calm down dear, its only about you and a matter of crimes against humanity.

[vilas 473]

today in TV it was told that several not effective banks (who also caused crisis) will get money from UE (our taxes)

so , private banksters gonna be founded by "us" (tax payers)

so how now about "founding welfare is b.s. ?"

of course there is founding welfare by poor, rich bank owner gets my tax money :/

no matter how much he will waist, fraud etc. he will get from EU much much more to waste (from my taxes)

i cannot stand that few people who have hundreds of milions will get from our taxes much more to waste

there was told something about crisis in Italy , any news ?

any more news about what happens on streets of Greece more ?

[Baff1 0]

Seems only fair since private bankers spend such a significant proportion of their lives funding taxpayers.

Nothing wrong with a relationship cutting both ways once in a while.

What you should try and remember is that those few people have earned you many hundreds of millions in taxes so far and that if you back them up, they will earn you many many more.

But if you fail to back them up, they will never again earn you a single penny.

No news on Italy, the U.S. is teetering on losing it's credit rating today however. Ireland is also back in the poo.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Baff1

[maturin 12]

Seems only fair since private bankers spend the bulk of their life funding taxpayers.

Nothing wrong with a relationship cutting both ways once in a while.

What you should try and remember is that those few people have earned you many millions in taxes so far and that if you back them up, they will earn you many many more.

But if you fail to back them up, they will never again earn you a single penny.

Yep, those virtuous bankers never earned a cent funding us taxpayers. They did it out of the goodness of their hearts.

There's a reason they call it compensation. The relationship already cut both ways, and strongly in their favor. They were backed up with a commanding share of wealth and influence.

We should "back them up" when their greed causes collapse, out of gratitude for them doing the jobs they were so extravagantly paid for? Capitalists will only produce value and take risks if they know that the costs of failure will be carried by others? In other words, the public should pay to absolve them of risk?

Baff1, I applaud you. In all his hundreds of grating, barely-legible posts, vilas has never managed such a brutal condemnation of our financial system.

Edited July 15, 2011 by maturin

[vilas 473]

Baff you forget about one detail... percentage

noone borrows money for free, they want 20-30 percent (Poland)

if we borrow 20 000 PLN for 2 years in Polish bank, you have to give back ... 27 000 PLN (26 950 as it was counted today for my mom in PKO BP bank)

yea... for good heart

cause director of one bank wants milion every month to buy collection of Ferrari (which even opened saloon in Warsaw, cause Polish(or foreign but on Poland's territory) banksters bought so much Ferraris, that saloon was open in building of stock, previously commie party hq)

Edited July 15, 2011 by vilas

[Baff1 0]

The money you lend them isn't for free either. Your government asks a far greater rate for that loan than any bank does.

Why did you think governments are lenders of last resort?

The tax they pay you... that is for free.

And everytime someone in your country buys a Ferrari with his own money, you all get a cut of it. For free.

When they bought the Commie HQ, you got a cut of that too. For free.

If they pay him twelve million a year, he pays you 3 million a year out of it. The more they pay him the more you get.

Everytime any of these people get richer, they make you all richer too. You don't have to borrow from them. You don't have to go to work.

You can just sit on your arse all day (not that you would) and these people will continue to earn you all more money.

They don't owe it to your mom to lend her money. A bank is not a charity. Harsh, I know, but true nonetheless.

The reason he can earn so much money, is not becuase your moms loan is lining his pockets it is because the level of efficiency he brings to the company allows for it to make so many many many many loans and just take the tiniest sliver off of each all adds up to to serious sums.

If you took 12 million a year off the intrest on a banks loanbook, that wouldn't reduce your mums bill by even a single zlotty. In fact if you sacked him, it's quite possible that the opposite would occour, that costs would rise.

Now, if however your government asked for a lower rate of return on the money they are lending to the banks... that might lower the cost of your moms loan.

Have you tried applying to any other banks? A German one perhaps?

You used to be able to get better deals from banks in other EU countries a few years ago.

(If you have already taken the loan, another bank can still buy it and offer you a lower rate, so it'a worth checking up on these things once in a while).

Edited July 15, 2011 by Baff1

[*LK1* 10]

yes, you have confirmation in second link, use google translator

this is Polish EU government site with information about EU funds

what i like from your country is how your country is using eu funds to grow up. it could be sounds obvious but is not. i saw a little documentary of 25/30 min. about that. heres where i live, in italy(:o..............), we open societies to get the eu funds and when the money finally comes the owner of the society declare bankrupt by using a fake method. we are wasting pretty much the 50% of these money. in some south-italy region(:rolleyes:), as calabria for example, we have the european record for these kind of frauds.

---------- Post added at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------

have fun, the choice of the source is your.

http://www.google.it/#hl=it&xhr=t&q=calabria+wasting+eu+funds&cp=25&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=calabria+wasting+eu+funds&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=94beb2e7760387ae&biw=1152&bih=749

[vilas 473]

and Baff, regaring you words about tax

i don't know how it is in your country

but in my country the richest do not pay taxes

simply because of "cost of income" minus "income" calculation

i know few policemen from tax inspection, and they told me that 90% of guys with Mercedes, Ferraris , palaces have "0 income after calculating cost of income"

in Poland there is "cost of income" legal term, you can take off (minus) it from sume of income , due to this most rich guys show their "company has no profits, so pay no tax, all is investing, new car is investment, food and clothes are investment etc. all is investment"

and due to this usual person pays 19% of income (tax) and rich person who has company sometimes pay... cents

so we as tax payers do not own rich anything, nothing at all , they not help society at all

[cri74 10]

Norway enters the war "of terror" Just 2 hours ago a bomb exploded in central city Oslo.

[Tonci87 163]

Horrible Thing