European Politics Thread.

[Dosenmais 10]

No, of course, it is the time to resort to name calling.

Since Years talk about the Currency Crash, why it would happend and how it would happend. Since years there are people which have knowledge about these things and told us what would happend. And everytime there was some person which made these stupid jokes and iam sick of this childish attitude.

"Politics" isn't about nonsense like a sportsgame, these actions affect live and death.

Hey, if you have nothing to say or atleast try to describe why the hell would fronzen tomorrow, keep your mouth shut and let the adults talk.

What has a freaking tin foil hat to do with that? Now being prepeared or at least have some food in stock is "strange"? That is what people did before every damn winter. Where the hell does this guy live? La-La-Land? On Wellfare in the land of milk and honey?

[Prydain 1]

Childish attitude? Have you read your own post?

Get a grip.

[Beagle 684]

Childish attitude? Have you read your own post?

Get a grip.

Hes not childisch hes clearly realistic. I know people that lived through such times, one is my grandma and the other one a friend from eastern gemany...both of them saw states collapse before first hand and both clearly say it currently feels all the same...While it may not be food in the first hand, it's indeed wise to stockpile fuel for example because the price is about to explode. My daily business problem rifght now is that metal prices explode too right now, just steel and copper and zinc im not even talking about rare metals. There are plans right now to open old waste deponies for the raw meterials burried there...and im not talking about 3rd world, I live in germany, the state that currently finances a third of european countries. Edited December 10, 2011 by Beagle

[Baff1 0]

Thats the consequence of planed economy, and the EU is planed economy.

The EU is mulitple economies and they didn't plan to be in conflict with each other, but they still are.

Because those multiple economies, were not planned, they evolved.

They are all unplanned.

The plan was to sellotape them all together so that they work more harmoniously together.

The Euro was a shit plan!

Sort of like how stabbing yourself in the testicles is.

Some plans, you don't want to follow.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Baff1

[Beagle 684]

The EU is mulitple planned economies and they didn't plan to be in conflict with each other, but they still are.

Because those multiple economies, were not planned, they evolved. They are all unplanned.

The plan was to sellotape them all together so that they work more harmoniously toegther.

The Euro was a shit plan!

Sort of like how stabbing yourself in the testicles is.

Some plans, you don't want to follow.

It seems the economy doesn't want to follow the EU's plans for it either.

The euro did change nothing at all because the individual money rates were allready fixed for a decade for the latwer euro members before the euro was introduced. Before the euro all EU currency was rated in ECU (european currency unit). The onyl EU currency at free float at this time was the british pound sterling. The Ecu was basically the testbed for the Euro and existed from 1979 till 1998. And yes, the ecu was a valid currency, it was simply not widely used. Edited December 10, 2011 by Beagle

[Baff1 0]

But they weren't all fixed.

Some were broken.

They still are.

In fact it is not possible for all the Eurozone to operate effectively under the same monetary rules. Because they are all such different economies, each with conflicting requirements.

Having fixed rates is exactly the problem.

Some countries need to devalue and others need not to.

So it's permamently screwed up for someone. Whatever rate you set, will be good for some and bad for others.

A one size fits all solution to a problem that requires a lot more flexibility.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Baff1

[nettrucker 144]

This is also a must see vid

_mAQVQtLSK8&feature=player_embedded

[Prydain 1]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/mar/20/nhs-reform-health-bill-passes-vote

FML

I already pay taxes for the fucking NHS, now I have to pay extra so that some cunt who went to Eton with Scameron can make a profit. The fucking roads are next too. Because, you know, we pay road tax and the largest percentage of fuel duty in the world so that the Chinese can buy them and cement our infrastructure in its 20th century form forever. Why don't all the Tory scum just go and live in America?

Before all this they reintroduced slave labour and have an immoral organisation (News International) full of criminals at their back and letting them in No10. It has been two years of disgrace.

Btw. I know nobody voted for this shit but if you did vote for the LibDems or the Torys, own up.

[Baff1 0]

Personally I'm pleased.

The devolution of power within the NHS from the Department of Health to the frontline NHS staff themselves is a big improvement.

I'm bloody tired of Labour building a hospital, and then changing policy the day after it has been completed (to get another headline in the Sun) and then that hospital, just sitting there fully equiped and totally unused until we have to pay to have knocked down again.

Meanwhile Mrs Briggs can't get any cancer drugs because they can't pay for it.

(And while Labour were responsable for the specific example I was referring to, don't be thinking the Conservatives and the Lib Dems are above screwing over the country in the name of a positive headline, either. They aren't).

The NHS has been at the mercy of political tinkering for far too long. It's good to see the Doctors will be in charge now.

Policy decisions made on the frontline, by the frontline. With no more one sized all dictats passed down from government spin doctors.

Any devolution of power away from Westminster and Whitehall is always a good thing.

Unless you are a vested intrest of course, with your slimey little fingers in the till, then I can underdstand why you would be quite angry.

Boohoo will some union fatcat have to give away some of his trimmings... How we all cried.

I don't really expect this bill to achieve all that of course. But it's bloody brave of them to even attempt it in my opinion.

That's twice now I've caught the Conservative party/Lib Dems giving powers back to the people that they could easily have kept for themselves, or even taken more of.

I approve.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Baff1

[PELHAM 10]

(News International) full of criminals at their back and letting them in No10.

That's how Tony and Gordon got there, it's been going on for decades mate. Tony and Gordy were very good pals with NI. Their children had slumber parties at Mrs R Brooks house. There was a video of Tony hugging and kissing Brooks hello "Nice to see you again" etc. Labour minders attempted to stop the press filming it. That was how UK politics worked and the current opposition front bench were in on it too. It's a dirty business all round and the way the UK public support parties like they support football teams baffles me, it's the politics of the stupid. I change my vote all the time - makes the fuckers work harder.

Edited March 22, 2012 by PELHAM

[hellfire257 3]

The day that News International collapses will be a great day. There's too many fingers in the pie at the moment (the pie being our government).

[Prydain 1]

The NHS has been at the mercy of political tinkering for far too long. It's good to see the Doctors will be in charge now.

Policy decisions made on the frontline, by the frontline. With no more one sized all dictats passed down from government spin doctors.

So to cure supposed government diktats we just hand over a wad of cash in the form of taxpayer's assets and increase costs to the levels the Americans pay for their not free at point of service healthcare system? Your grounding is about as sturdy as a blancmange too, you seem to think doctors are in favour of this.

Boohoo will some union fatcat have to give away some of his trimmings...

No, lets give it to a private fat cat to increase profit year-on-year from peoples ill health. And, btw, why is a union boss representing the very people you proposed were in need of this ruinous reform is suddenly the problem? Make up your mind, your either for NHS staff or not.

That's how Tony and Gordon got there, it's been going on for decades mate.

I think we all know that and agree but the point is that because they currently have the NI cap-badge we have a lot of The Sun and Daily Mail readers being swayed by a media bias like no other. Virtually no coverage of policy is what we get, the BBC is just a regurgitation service at present.

It's a dirty business all round and the way the UK public support parties like they support football teams baffles me, it's the politics of the stupid. I change my vote all the time - makes the fuckers work harder.

I used to think like that, I agree that supporting one like a football team isn't sanity in my eyes but since the current crop of Torys are basically children of Thatcher on crack I have been worried for the wealth of the average person. True to form just about everything looks like its on the shelf ready to be sold and not a single solid set of policys to create growth or jobs other than the creation of a free, unpaid, labour force -- the worst salary reducing and most retarded idea ever.

As far as parties are concerned though, voting for the Torys is masochism and the Lib Dems are basically Torys so what can you vote for if not Labour? Voting for smaller parties is like not voting at all.

[Baff1 0]

So to cure supposed government diktats we just hand over a wad of cash in the form of taxpayer's assets and increase costs to the levels the Americans pay for their not free at point of service healthcare system? Your grounding is about as sturdy as a blancmange too, you seem to think doctors are in favour of this.

No, lets give it to a private fat cat to increase profit year-on-year from peoples ill health. And, btw, why is a union boss representing the very people you proposed were in need of this ruinous reform is suddenly the problem? Make up your mind, your either for NHS staff or not..

Do go back to Venezuala mate.

Seriously, you should discuss these things with Walker. You and him are going to see eye to eye about it all.

A union fatcat represents no one but himself.

Worse, in order for him to get his way he will attack those he is supposed to be providing for at their weakest moment. Cancel flights at Christmas, refuse to load food and weapons for troops under siege.

Stop distributing coal on an extra cold winter...

Anti-social scum blackmailing society for their own personal greed.

The enemies of the country.

I don't give a shit about NHS staff who are on the take either.

If you don't want whats right for your patients because it's shakes your little money tree, I don't care to hear from you.

The American health service is free at the point of access as indeed are many other privatised health care systems.

It's also cheaper than ours and provides comparable if not superior care.

I suggest that next time you go to America, you check their dental prices. You might be pleasently surprised.

The difference between them is the in the UK and Canada, the insurance money is collected by the government and elsewhere in the world it is collected by private companies. In the UK your National Insurance payments are sent to HMRC by your employer and in the USA/everywhere else they are sent to a private insurance company.

Otherwise they are much the same. Your employer collects your contributions on your behalf and the hospital doesn't ask you for any money. Those without enough to cover their basic healthcare needs are covered by the increased insurance premiums of all the other users of the system.

It should not be lost on you that there are such things as "not for profit companies" in the private sector.

Schools for example. I have worked for plenty of non profit private companies. A health care provider is exactly where I would expect to find one.

BUPA for example, Britains largest private health insurer is a non profit making organisation.

Not that I have any problem at all from people profitting from providing me a good service. In fact I want them to.

I want everyone to.

If you are doing something well or that benefits me, I want you to benefit from it too.

You see if a union boss wasn't such an abject cunt who got his power by intentionally screwing people weaker than him over whenever they look most vulnerable, I would want him to get rich too.

Everyone should be rich.

This bill however has nothing to do with privatisation. Nothing whatsoever.

Which is a great shame in my opinion.

One private Quango under Whitehall control is being replaced by a private secretary under your GP's control.

It's about devolution of power from government back office to the front line of the health service.

Labour = the nasty party.

A vote for them is a vote for hatred and division.

Utterly unelectable until they have a total clean out of their shadow cabinent and rebrand themselves as human beings.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Baff1

[PELHAM 10]

As far as parties are concerned though, voting for the Torys is masochism and the Lib Dems are basically Torys so what can you vote for if not Labour? Voting for smaller parties is like not voting at all.

So you think Labour will put it all back the way it was before? Like they did last time they got into power - nothing changed and more got sold off didn't it?

I was interested to see Labour policy after this last budget and tuned into Ed Ball's every guest appearance. He said nothing, every time he was asked if he would reverse current measures he replied, "I can't commit to anything as I don't know what the economic situation will be in 3 years time."

Does that fill you with confidence?

I am not in a position to vote for them because I have no confidence in them. They do much emotive spin and will not make any promises. Just watch this from Harriet Harmen, the drifting deputy leader, who has done basically nothing since she got the job, doesn't know policy and can't add up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17401158

Not inspiring is it? I tend to vote for people who appear competent to do the job, Labour just don't have the people at the moment. They got rid of most of the brightest and best with internal power struggles and the way David Miliband was ditched for his idiot brother was a terrible mistake. I would have voted for David Miliband, just can't do it for the current mob.

[[evo] dan 79]

I voted Tory last election (it was the first time I was old enough to vote). Why did I vote them?

A) Labour had practically bankrupted the country and had got us into 2 wars.

B) The Tory's, out of all the parties, made the most sense (at least they admitted to having to make cuts, labour said they wouldn't).

On the NHS, remember Labour had already sold most of the new build hospitals off via its PFI scheme. Read up on it and see how much extra money it has cost the tax payer.

Although admittidly, I have kind of got a slight dislike for the Tory's over the university fees (I am a student). They became spineless with this. It was suggested that fee's for courses useful to the UK economy have the fees kepts at the same rate, and only increase the fee's on other coruses, but Labour (and others) cried elitism, and so now everybody has to pay increased fees, but if its anything like my university, then you actually have to pay more to do a useful course then a non-useful course (£9k next year for engineering, science or maths, £7k for media or physcology), which to me smacks of elitism the other way (as well as encouraging people to go on those easy courses)

Edited March 24, 2012 by [EVO] Dan

[Prydain 1]

Do go back to Venezuala mate.

Seriously, you should discuss these things with Walker. You and him are going to see eye to eye about it all.

Great argument, I was convinced by this.

I was interested to see Labour policy after this last budget and tuned into Ed Ball's every guest appearance. He said nothing, every time he was asked if he would reverse current measures he replied, "I can't commit to anything as I don't know what the economic situation will be in 3 years time."

Does that fill you with confidence?

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable comment for someone who is not the Labour leader that isn't even close to an election. We don't know what the future will hold, personally I hope it will be a future without Ed Balls but whatever. I think you'll find politicians of all stripes doing this at different times to be fair. Just like cash for honours and this cash for dinners scandal that is about to rock this young government.

I would have voted for David Miliband, just can't do it for the current mob.

Maybe David would have been the better option for the average voter but Labour obviously like Ed for the same reason that Torys, the obtuse masses and Blairites don't. Because he is a bit red, which I am too objective to say is a bad thing.

@Dan. Torys just never understood economics very well beyond tax and debt. It mainly comes from their tier of the class structure that, sadly, our country still has being among the upper rungs of the ladder. You don't think up bullshit like "The Big Society", which basically means "don't get paid to work" unless your spoon fed.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Prydain

[PELHAM 10]

the obtuse masses

Also known as the democratic majority, that is why I have no time for the far left, they are just as bad as the far right.

Perhaps you should occasionally read something other than the 'Socialist Worker' lol.

Edited March 25, 2012 by PELHAM

[Baff1 0]

I'm in agreement with Prydain, I think Ed was the better man for the job.

His brother is a spineless toady. A yes man.

A leader without balls is no use to anyone.

Also I think he is closer to the Labour core vote, a bunch of people Labour needs to reconnect with if it ever wants to be elected again.

I sort of see him as a caretaker leader.

Not the guy who will an election for them, but someone who will reinvigorate the activists after years of centrist disenfranchisement.

As for Tory economics, it's less than good, and they clearly don't understand about debt since they aren't even attempting to address the national debt, only the rate at which we gain more of it.

Unfortunately as pathetic as that is it was the best economic policy on offer at the time, and all the others would have been even worse.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Baff1

[Prydain 1]

Also known as the democratic majority, that is why I have no time for the far left, they are just as bad as the far right.

Perhaps you should occasionally read something other than the 'Socialist Worker' lol.

The far left are peaceful hippes and green campaigners, the far right are the BNP and the EDL so I would never say they are just as bad. Until the right relinquish their monopoly on racism, homophobia and sexism I think the far left can take a pass for all I care. As for your ad hom, don't project, I haven't preached Marxism or communism so I don't know how you would think that your "Socialist Worker" comment came up.

As for Tory economics, it's less than good, and they clearly don't understand about debt since they aren't even attempting to address the national debt, only the rate at which we gain more of it.

They understand it, it is just that they think that selling all the national assets is the way to cure it rather than creating real growth. Our labour market needs to be moving towards the German model but how would someone like Gideon know that? Not everyone has rich parents to place them in a job.

[GRS 10]

The far left are peaceful hippes and green campaigners, the far right are the BNP and the EDL so I would never say they are just as bad. Until the right relinquish their monopoly on racism, homophobia and sexism I think the far left can take a pass for all I care.

That sounds very unbiased and fair, you've convinced me.

[PELHAM 10]

The far left are peaceful hippes and green campaigners, the far right are the BNP and the EDL

Anarchists and communists? Just as bad as the EDL and BNP, surprised you conveniently forgot about the violent far left.

[Prydain 1]

Anarchists and communists? Just as bad as the EDL and BNP, surprised you conveniently forgot about the violent far left.

How can I forget people who have never turned up in the UK? How many anarchists are there in the UK? 200, 2000? How many communist members of any party have racially provoked kids and beat them up in the street?

False equivalence isn't objective.

[PELHAM 10]

How can I forget people who have never turned up in the UK? How many anarchists are there in the UK? 200, 2000? How many communist members of any party have racially provoked kids and beat them up in the street?

False equivalence isn't objective.

lol so Anarchists and Communists have never been involved in violent protests in the UK? I'm not responding any more if you are going to bend the truth and tell outright lies.

Three examples I know of personally, I'm sure if you look on the web you will find many more public examples.

I had a friend at high school who was from Alabama. The music teacher was extremely left wing and had a thinly disguised hate for the US, particularly Southerners. She would frequently whisper in his ear, "We are not your slaves here!". He got more punishment than anyone else and was even framed for things he didn't do. Not a single music lesson passed without trouble and some other teachers joined in. If that teacher was on playground duty and he was getting some rough treatment, she would turn her back and look the other way. The bigger kids were allowed to do whatever they liked to him. When his parents eventually got involved they were told he had behavioural problems and that he was causing the trouble. I saw his sister about 10 years ago and asked how he was. She tearfully explained that he had never settled after those experiences and hanged himself aged 22. I'm not sure if that counts as racial provocation but it's damn close, I saw this happen.

A Botswanan friend had a similar experience. During his 1st week in school after they moved to the UK they were studying the middle ages in History when for no apparent reason the teacher wrote Boer (South African Farmer) on the blackboard and said it was pronounced 'bower'. He fell right into the trap, anyone from that region of Africa knows the word is pronounced 'Boor', so he put up his hand and said so. He was labelled as a South African and said he was made to feel as if he was personally responsible for apartheid. He was 10 years old, this occurred in the late 80's when problems in SA were at their worst. When he left and went to high school they changed his name from Troy to Tracy on the paperwork knowing he would have to put his hand up and correct the error in front of 400 other children on his 1st day. I asked him if anyone else had this error, he was the only one.

A guy I used to work with has a very Jewish sounding name inherited from a Grandparent. He may have some Jewish heritage, but he isn't Jewish. Around the time of the short war between Israel and Hezbollah in 2006 he started getting his house vandalised. Dog poo posted through the letterbox, eggs thrown, balloons filled with weed killer in the garden. He got the police involved and installed CCTV. The CCTV didn't work as the people involved always wore hooded tops and were careful to hide their identity. He could tell it was a man and a woman. The clothing was their undoing, the lady wore the same tie-dyed skirt on more than one occasion. In a favourite bookshop he noticed that same skirt. It's owner worked there and he realised they had his name and address from the books he had previously ordered. The lady and her boyfriend were members of an Anarchist group and were well known to the police for other incidents. He ended up moving house as he didn't feel safe living there.

Edited March 26, 2012 by PELHAM

[Prydain 1]

lol so Anarchists and Communists have never been involved in violent protests in the UK?

Did you list any? I am simply saying that the comparative numbers of both categories of those people are vastly outweighed by the far right and there isn't really anything to connect Communism (particularly of the Stalinist strand) to the left or far left. Anarchists, by their very definition, cannot be categorised in this way too.

Are your personal stories based in the UK? I can't really relate to those stories, none are related to left wing politics in the UK, sadly. PM sent about the 2nd.

[Baff1 0]

The far left are peaceful hippes and green campaigners, the far right are the BNP and the EDL so I would never say they are just as bad. Until the right relinquish their monopoly on racism, homophobia and sexism I think the far left can take a pass for all I care. As for your ad hom, don't project, I haven't preached Marxism or communism so I don't know how you would think that your "Socialist Worker" comment came up.

.

The far right is the BNP

The far left is the EDL.

Interchangeable in my eyes.

Don't forget that the most famously extremist, xenophobic, racist scumbags of all time, the National Socialist Party, were lefties.

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

They understand it, it is just that they think that selling all the national assets is the way to cure it rather than creating real growth. Our labour market needs to be moving towards the German model but how would someone like Gideon know that? Not everyone has rich parents to place them in a job.

As I understand it, there isn't any opportunity for real growth and won't be for decades to come.

Think in terms of Japan.

Successive governments took the lazy way out and pretended growth in borrowing was sustainable growth for too long and now that option is no longer available to us.

Our labour market could indeed do well to mimic the German model, unfortunately, Labour screwed our education system and we don't produce that kind of a work force at the moment and it's going to take a generation of schoolchildren before we can. I do feel that Ex Labour and now Tory education minister (and expenses fraudster), Mr Gove is making significant progress in addressing this however.

If he wasn't a corrupt fraudster who get let off for being Mr Camerons bumchum, I'd even like him. Coming from an educational background myself as I do.

The problem with selling government assets now, is that we are selling them at the bottom of the market. Getting the worst price for them.

Better of course would have been not getting into debt, running a government surplus and having cash free to buy more government assets in a recession/downturn.

But once again, unless someone invents the TARDIS this isn't an option for us. What's done is done.

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:24 ----------

How can I forget people who have never turned up in the UK? How many anarchists are there in the UK? .

The anarchists in my family fled to America in the 80's.

Too much of their mail was coming through the door pre-opened and such.

But matey is right, there is absolutely no shortage of violent anarchists about. Who can forget the Wombles!

Or those kids who burnt my mates MOT garage in Cambridge down the other month.

Or Charlie Glimore swinging from the Cenotaph.

Spiral Tribe with their Sherman.

The KLF with their Spartans and "burning a miilion quid".

How about the Sex Pistols!

Anarchy in the UK.

Not all of those were violent of course, but you see a pretty standard amount of violent anarchists at the front of every protest march.

We had the England wide anarchy last year with all the looting and burning.

Anarchy is alive and well here and anyone who says punk's dead will be.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Baff1