European Politics Thread.

[VanhA-ICON 11]

An excellent speech:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2011/11/polands-appeal-germany

[Prydain 1]

Interesting VanhA-ICON.

I was fearing the read was going to be utter tripe after the "cushioned the "West European welfare states" from facing reality" line because the blogger didn't elaborate that point. Nor explain how, after half a century of existence, European style welfare needs to be cushioned.

The "warning to Britain" isn't going to find any open ears here on the islands but it is interesting to see people from the other side even bothered to appeal in such a way. I don't think, since Thatcher's children stumbled in, the UK will be worth thinking about, even in a pragmatic way, when it comes to moving Europe forwards. It might even be time to leave us in the 20th century, don't even leave the door open for the inevitable reversal when, in a number of years, the Earth is full of resource nabbing superpowers and the little Englanders like Dave and Gideon aren't donning the UNSC hat.

[celery 8]

Basically what the Polish foreign minister wants is that the EU stays intact even if it means turning it into a federation.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2011/11/sikorski-hero-or-traitor

[VanhA-ICON 11]

Basically what the Polish foreign minister wants is that the EU stays intact even if it means turning it into a federation.

That part of course is alarming but what I find encouraging about this is that finally the politicians dare to speak their mind.

I hope our politicians would stop fearing the next elections and start making decisions.

[nettrucker 142]

In my opinion the EU is already a failure. The problem is that our politicians just don't get it. Here in Italy we are expecting a rise of every kind of taxes. New taxes will be introduced to screw us over even more. Fuel prices are constantly rising. What's not to like?

We are governed here in Italy by former or still active bankers which noone has elected.

For being honest I would give a damn if the EU would break up. Things have definitely worsened since the EU and the Euro as currency has been introduced.

If I would think in terms of a global conspiracy than I would say the first step of the "New World Order" is risking to fail.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

In my opinion the EU is already a failure. The problem is that our politicians just don't get it. Here in Italy we are expecting a rise of every kind of taxes. New taxes will be introduced to screw us over even more. Fuel prices are constantly rising. What's not to like?

We are governed here in Italy by former or still active bankers which noone has elected.

For being honest I would give a damn if the EU would break up. Things have definitely worsened since the EU and the Euro as currency has been introduced.

If I would think in terms of a global conspiracy than I would say the first step of the "New World Order" is risking to fail.

Braking up the EU is not going to change a thing, you are right it was bound to fail, it was in fact bound to fail from the start. The problem is that splitting it up again will make it even worse it will cost you and me and anyone in the EU more then they can manage. Countries in a whole will collapse even worser out of the EU.

First of all and I already said it somewhere else a while back when the Economic bubble was bursting in 2001 it was bursting to be un-fixable. To be honest to my knowledge it was already broken before the EU and the EU arises to assure us to prevent an economic crisis. It worked for a while doh but it did not lasted long. While this was in progress a lot of money from the EU countries was lost and those same EU countries where pumping money in this already broken beast like it was never tomorrow. The problem now on this point when the EU would split up or brake or whatever we will get a lot of more problems so they try to stabilize it and we will need to sweat to over come this together.

Do I like it NOPE but can we do something about it hell NO, so in fact all we can do is whine about it but still while you like it or not YOU WILL NEED TO accept it.

thats how it is

kind regards

[nettrucker 142]

Braking up the EU is not going to change a thing, you are right it was bound to fail, it was in fact bound to fail from the start. The problem is that splitting it up again will make it even worse it will cost you and me and anyone in the EU more then they can manage. Countries in a whole will collapse even worser out of the EU.

First of all and I already said it somewhere else a while back when the Economic bubble was bursting in 2001 it was bursting to be un-fixable. To be honest to my knowledge it was already broken before the EU and the EU arises to assure us to prevent an economic crisis. It worked for a while doh but it did not lasted long. While this was in progress a lot of money from the EU countries was lost and those same EU countries where pumping money in this already broken beast like it was never tomorrow. The problem now on this point when the EU would split up or brake or whatever we will get a lot of more problems so they try to stabilize it and we will need to sweat to over come this together.

Do I like it NOPE but can we do something about it hell NO, so in fact all we can do is whine about it but still while you like it or not YOU WILL NEED TO accept it.

thats how it is

kind regards

The EU is already breaking up and it's a process noone can stop in my opinion. Too many EU members are close to bankruptcy and will follow soon Greece. The problem is that we are pumping more money in a failure. Too big to fail? Yeah. We are going to do something about it if we are in conditions of the greece people. Not before.

Do I like it NOPE but can we do something about it hell NO,

Hell yes you can. You can inform other people . . . talk to them. Spread important news. Wake the people up. That's what you can do . . . if you want to.

The real problem is that are system is corrupt to it's DNA. As long as we can't fix that we are going to have a hell of surprise in the end. :eek:

[KEVINMGXP 20]

The EU is already breaking up and it's a process noone can stop in my opinion. Too many EU members are close to bankruptcy and will follow soon Greece. The problem is that we are pumping more money in a failure. Too big to fail? Yeah. We are going to do something about it if we are in conditions of the greece people. Not before.

euhm sorry mate the EU is bound to stick and the only way to brake it up is that every country is going there own way. And the way it is set up is impossible to just exit. you need to get a wake up call i guess, if one EU country goes we all go whether you like it or not and people still don't get that along the way ... A lot of people in common are saying EU burst we want our own money back, you can't get back whats already gone, Its a more complex system then people have in mind.

Hell yes you can. You can inform other people . . . talk to them. Spread important news. Wake the people up. That's what you can do . . . if you want to.

lol I don't need to inform people and talk to them about something thats already in front of them, I mean whats to inform the only thing that I can do is discuss it with people alike, most people already know mate its not news its getting old its every where :D

The real problem is that are system is corrupt to it's DNA. As long as we can't fix that we are going to have a hell of surprise in the end. :eek:

this sounds for me a little, aaah well I am tired of discussing this kind of things you know, I mean discussing politics yes but pointing fingers they are corrupt its all set up bla bla I really am fed up on it you know.

Edited December 6, 2011 by KBourne

[nettrucker 142]

I'm not avoiding discussion by saying it's all corrupt. In my opinion here lies the main factor why we are in this particular situation all over the world. I'm not tired of discussion by saying that. I firmly believe it. My bosses wife works for Transparency International which is an organization which fights corruption worldwide. Corruption is a cancer to our society. It kills Democracy. And I'm pointing once again out, that corruption is everywhere. What the EU concerns we will see where it all ends it's just a matter of time.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I'm not avoiding discussion by saying it's all corrupt. In my opinion here lies the main factor why we are in this particular situation all over the world. I'm not tired of discussion by saying that. I firmly believe it. My bosses wife works for Transparency International which is an organization which fights corruption worldwide. Corruption is a cancer to our society. It kills Democracy. And I'm pointing once again out, that corruption is everywhere. What the EU concerns we will see where it all ends it's just a matter of time.

added some info along the way while you where posting yours anyway, I know there is corruption and of course it is something that needs to be fought against, but I can hardly agree it is the source of all of our financial problems. However it is a part of it but it is in a whole more complexer then only corruption.

but thats my opinion ;) ohw and a other thing Democracy is fiction :D look up on the world right now, yes you can speak your minds and protest and disagree but then again how far does democracy reach at this very moment? I mean I live in Belgium we elected a new party but this party is not part of the government we live in a so called democracy .. Hell after more then a year the government is still not formed in a whole out here, owh almost yeah here it comes .. or not lol

Democracy I have my doubts about its existence :rolleyes:

Edited December 6, 2011 by KBourne
added info again :p

[nettrucker 142]

added some info along the way while you where posting yours anyway, I know there is corruption and of course it is something that needs to be fought against, but I can hardly agree it is the source of all of our financial problems. However it is a part of it but it is in a whole more complexer then only corruption.

but thats my opinion ;) ohw and a other thing Democracy is fiction :D look up on the world right now, yes you can speak your minds and protest and disagree but then again how far does democracy reach at this very moment? I mean I live in Belgium we elected a new party but this party is not part of the government we live in a so called democracy .. Hell after more then a year the government is still not formed in a whole out here, owh almost yeah here it comes .. or not lol

Democracy I have my doubts about its existence :rolleyes:

I know that the whole situation is really complex. I did some homework believe me. I tied the knots I found and it's not looking good at all IMHO. I personally believe that our politicians are unable to fix anything. We don't have a real choice at the moment. We gotta suck it up. It's called quantitive easening. LOL Our juridical systems are a fail so is the political system and last but not least our economic system. And I believe also that the whole globalization process we underwent in the last 20 years has bound worldwide economies together which will influence each other. Now since we are in a worldwide crisis it is concerning all of us and there's something terrible wrong in this world. This reckless speculation on the financial markets has to be regulated somehow. No more bailouts that would already be a start in my opinion.

The government is not our friend . . . it has never been. History should learn something but it does not.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I know that the whole situation is really complex. I did some homework believe me. I tied the knots I found and it's not looking good at all IMHO. I personally believe that our politicians are unable to fix anything. We don't have a real choice at the moment. We gotta suck it up. It's called quantitive easening. LOL Our juridical systems are a fail so is the political system and last but not least our economic system. And I believe also that the whole globalization process we underwent in the last 20 years has bound worldwide economies together which will influence each other. Now since we are in a worldwide crisis it is concerning all of us and there's something terrible wrong in this world. This reckless speculation on the financial markets has to be regulated somehow. No more bailouts that would already be a start in my opinion.

The government is not our friend . . . it has never been. History should learn something but it does not.

Thats what I meant with

Do I like it NOPE but can we do something about it hell NO, so in fact all we can do is whine about it but still while you like it or not YOU WILL NEED TO accept it.

Its not directly that I disagree with everything with what you are saying, its also not because I don't want to inform people. Its just well like you just said

we are in a worldwide crisis it is concerning all of us and there's something terrible wrong in this world.

sadly yes and we can protest all we want and shout and disagree and even vouch for changes but as long if people are repeating the same mistakes we will need indeed to suck it up. The world is as it is, you have those that control and you have those that needs to follow. whether it is in a so called democracy, dictatorship, socialist government or whatever form rules will be enforce money will need to roll and people need to work for it. We will have pore and rich and the rich will have more benefits as the pore and this is an repeating process that will kept in tact and nothing is going to change that, no conspiracy theory will keep it from happening, there will be no alliances against governments to stop what their doing and yes of course we don't need to like it ....

but I doubt we will see it change now or even in the future. People just need to try to get along and accept and get on with their lives, people will struggle along the way and when other people try to help others thats the beauty of it. you need to cherish those ... In the end it is how you stand in live and what you do for your environment that counts at least thats how it works for me ..

kind regards

Edited December 6, 2011 by KBourne

[Dosenmais 10]

I would just reminde People in Europa, and also north america and where every you live reading this, get prepeared.

This Euro-BS Currency is over, there is no way that the EU could be survive untill there is a big crisis where people think they would neeeeed the EU to fix or just survive the crisis.

And when the Attack on Iran starts, there will be an shortage of Oil in Europa. And Europa needs Oil. So we could see empty supermarkets, we could see foodstamps and such things. So it could never harm to bunker some food.

[Prydain 1]

So it could never harm to bunker some food.

I better start putting a tin foil hat rack together.

As much as I like to EU bash I can understand why we need it and why, in terms of culture and history, integration isn't a flawed idea. So Europe will remain close and will get more powerful because there isn't a reason not to and the people will continue to complain with no consequence.

The Euro will be saved, you don't pull down a currency that cut the EU project in two and had taken two decades of political wrangling just because of political pressure.

[Baff1 0]

It's not the political pressure that is the problem. It's the economic.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Baff1

[Beagle 684]

It's not the political pressure that is the problem. It's the economic.

economy is in trouble planetwide, even China sees a decrease in export volume and income these days...for the first time in recent history....at the point china feels the crisis is global for sure.

The whole situation remeinds of 1991 and the decay of the soviel union...it was a hollow inflated bubble before it finally collapsed and till the end the party officials did not wanted to see the thruth.

Reminds you of something that is going on recently?

[Baff1 0]

I can see that comparison.

It's one I often make for the American debt bubble.

If China goes bust, I'm finished. My pension will be 100% wiped out.

Still, it's been fun while it lasted.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Greece is still considering an offer of 400 of redundant M1A1 Abrams tanks (deployed in 1990-191 Gulf War) extended by the United States government. "The only cost will be that of transport, which is estimated in the region of eight million euros ($11 million)," a spokesman said. Next year, Athens has allocated more money to military equipment orders - 1 billion euros compared to 600 million euros a year earlier. It can't be that bad... ;)

[mrcash2009 0]

This is reverse psychology for UK, at the moment the "we will be on the outer rim of EU from the inner circle of countries" crap is being peddled now (just heard it on the radio).

Also not being part of this "inner circle" would mean their decision may have effect on us (from the radio), yet most control is the inner city of London. I love the bullshit that's flying now to get people to turn to EU based on fear.

All playing out for the superstate of control and centralisation to solve it all ... yawn. Uk "isn't interested" at the moment, so lets just see how bad things get so we then in a psychological game have to get back involved with everyone calling for it.

I better start putting a tin foil hat rack together.

I find it funny that mentions of tin foil come about off the back of a comment that is logical, why would it be in anyway conspiracy and tin foil hat at all to have some prep in case financial systems have issues later? You stock up on food every week, why would it be tin foil hat based to do it for a longer period? Im sorry I know your not bashing it, but I cringe every time that phrase "arrives again".

At this time, watch the people who are "im all-right jacks" & "Doesnt effect me so its ok" too, watch the blood drain from their faces later as the bubbled smirks slide away. If anyone wants to have a sobering experience, it will land on a personal level soon enough (speaking in general not any anyone in this thread).

Edited December 9, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Baff1 0]

LMAO my family has been stocking up food since the end of WW2.

Just in case.

Lesson learnt the hard way.

As for being on the outer rim of Eruope.

We are on the outer rim of Europe.

It's not a case of we could be or we are going to be.

We are.

Why pretend to be something we are not?

[mrcash2009 0]

It's not a case of we could be or we are going to be.

We are.

Why pretend to be something we are not?

The idea is to make you think your missing out "Please can I be part of the cool gang" :)

[Baff1 0]

5 hour dinners.

Mmm. Lovely.

[Dosenmais 10]

I better start putting a tin foil hat rack together.

Ever lived while a inflation happend?

Hey Buddy, my family got hit hard while the 1920's and lost tousands of Goldmark because he stored the Papermoney at the Bank.

And now, the descendants of these people talk about that as it would be funny.

Hey Jerk, this isn't funny. This isn't the right time to make stupid jokes about tin foil hats.

Do you guys remember something? Since years there are people which told you what would happend. The Wars, the Economy collaps, the lowering of living standart. And Jerks which never ever read a book made their tin foil jokes all the time.

I can understand why we need it and why,

That means you understand nothing.

It's not the political pressure that is the problem. It's the economic.

The power plant will work even without the EU. The Craftsmen will still work in their workshop without the EU. People will still trade without the EU.

The political pressure causes economic problems! Thats the consequence of planed economy, and the EU is planed economy.

[VanhA-ICON 11]

The idea is to make you think your missing out "Please can I be part of the cool gang" :)

Indeed. That's how our leaders got tricked to all the bad deals with the "inner circle" card.

They are just so easy...

Hey Jerk, this isn't funny. This isn't the right time to make stupid jokes about tin foil hats.

Nor calling people names in here..... tut tut..

[Prydain 1]

Hey Jerk, this isn't funny. This isn't the right time to make stupid jokes about tin foil hats.

No, of course, it is the time to resort to name calling.

Bunker food all you like, talk as if you know anything about anything and name call all you like. Your contradictions, misreadings and general idiocy aren't anything to harken for a thinking person.