ODOL Explorer v2.0

[Pathy 0]

Yes but wardog, if youd downloaded the previous version, without a save function, youd still have your problem answered...

[MAA 127]

Releasing this tool to public is not good.

Better way is learning from tutorials and not from advanced models. I think that when somebody with low skills looks at advanced model he don't understand how some things works. And if he don't understand how it works then easy way is copy and paste...

When this tool will be used for riping addons and using parts from models/textures without permission, then talented addonmakers have 4 choices:

1. quit their work

2. still making addons but stop releasing addons to public.

3. releasing addons only to small community

4. start making addons for another game

... because writing about thieves into forums would not discourage these bad guys from that activity. And it would not discourage players from downloading their "addons".

....and then will community die...

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]I wouldn't worry about piracy; I'm sure the Addon Gestapo will be right on the ball.

I seriously doubt that any pirates will actually steal and modify models, mainly because they'll still have to use O2 to edit the models. Have you ever tried to edit a complex model? It's damn near impossible to change any part of the structure without creating texture inconsistencies, weird mixups in various physics LODs, etc...

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

Quote[/b] ]Addon Gestapo

In this Users Security and Savety Response-unit (USSR-unit) we, the Dutch Independent Enforcers (DIE), will gladly help to control and supress the community

[kegetys 2]

When this tool will be used for riping addons and using parts from models/textures without permission, then talented addonmakers have 4 choices:

1. quit their work

2. still making addons but stop releasing addons to public.

3. releasing addons only to small community

4. start making addons for another game

5. keep on going as usual and not care on what lamers do

6. use the allmighty copyright law (you can complain to sites hosting the downloads for you ripped models for example, or if that doesnt work, operators hosting the hosting sites, etc.)

[benu 1]

I get really sad when i read this thread. Although there has been a tool like this before (p3dedit), addon makers complain about this one cause it is "public" (yeah, as if p3dedit wasn't). I guess Denoir is right, they are elitists who don't want to have "underprivileged" people joining their ranks. Sad indeed, but not surprising, that attitude can be found often in statements from eg DeadMeat or the CSLA team.

And if you condense what they say it boils down to either "you are all a bunch of thieves and will only use this tool to rip of our addons and try to sell them as your own work" or "i had to learn it the hard way and i don't want it to be easier for anybody else". Both sad indeed.

I am especially sad about TJs remarks, i can't believe he said stuff like "everyone except fdf, bas, dkmm and csla sucks anyway". This is so contrary to everything else i read from him.

I hope people get over it soon and this sad phase of whining addon makers will soon be over and forgotten. I think this is exactly the kind of mentality that Vektorboson wrote about in his thread...

[thirtyg 0]

5. keep on going as usual and not care on what lamers do

6. use the allmighty copyright law (you can complain to sites hosting the downloads for you ripped models for example, or if that doesnt work, operators hosting the hosting sites, etc.)

Well said, Kegetys and Selectthis have hit the nail on the head, this community is strong and hates rips, any rips will be bared by the community IMO. + as m21man said if you try to change a model without any o2 skills u will stuff it up.

The only real concern that i think modmakers should have is that brought up by Col. Klink, all the other will be 'policed' by the community.

EDIT: well said benu, i go that feeling from some of the posts in this thread as well.

[JGreyNemo 0]

So according to Maa the OFP community is now dead.

Ok everyone time to format that Hard drive and throw your OFP discs in the bin because the OFP community is now dead because of the dastardly WRP team releasing that tool.  

RIP Operation Flashpoint 2001-2004 - "Taken away from us so suddenly in the night... you who we were so fond, we only knew you shortly, but now you are gone."

Mods, you might as well delete the forums now.  There's really no point in going on.

[vektorboson 8]

I am very surprised by many comments regarding the release of this tool.

[T J 0]

You misunderstand me there Benu.

The "etc etc" allows for ALL quality addons, but you see as well as I do the 274 PAGES of addons released.

It is my experience that anybody, even without talent at the start, but with desire and willingness to learn, will be taken on and employed by one or other of the mod teams. Most of us started that way, and were glad of the chance. I dont believe in this "under-priveleged" majority who are held back from doing anything because they couldnt open up ODOL models.

That just isnt true. The famous P3edit is actually of very little use at all, and was held in reserve to certain teams because that was the writers intention and desire.

The BIS models themselves have not changed in essence since the demo, and those models have been available for years.

Ah well, there are other walls to bang my head against I suppose.....its just a shame that the attitude of trust in the community has been shattered.

TJ

[Pathy 0]

lol ok....

Benu, i dont see how a converter can allow people to learn better than a viewer. Thats pretty much the point of this discussion, you seem to have missed it, so ill point it out again (3rd time)

With regards to learning from addons, you could do this with the previous versions of ODOL explorer.....they let you browse and look, but not save. Perfect, surely?.....keeps existing addon makers happy, ensures security without need for policing, ensures people acknowledge others work they are editing by forcing them to email the addon maker for the MLOD anyway (thereby getting permission with the act of obtaining the MLOD, rather than being able to get it without permissions), and all the while enables new modellers or even old modellers with a problem, to look at how it was done in other cases by using ODOL explorer.....suits everybody!

But they went too far in releasing a converter methinks.....its not us addon makers whining because we are elitist and dont want new addon makers....addon makers havent gainied a thing from this tool IMO, because, as i said above, the viewer could to all the things the converter can legitimately be used to do! WE have only lost out by putting a brand new risk for us to cope with.....

[thirtyg 0]

its just a shame that the attitude of trust in the community has been shattered.

On the contrary if anything this release surely promotes trust within the community on multiple levels... especially a trust that the community will do everything it can so strike down any unauthorised rips of peoples addons that occur because of this release.

In defense of the community, how has this release all of a sudden change it's attitude, i think the community has a good track record of not supporting rips of anything. Have faith and show some trust in the community.

[Pathy 0]

Well on that note G, i would trust just about everyone in this forum NOT to rip any models off.....its the kind of people you got on the ofp.info comments system that worry me! I wouldn't trust them to be polite on a comment board and i wouldn't trust them to respect others addons (soon as they dont respect others addons anyway, as they flame just about anything that comes out )

[dinger 1]

Jeezus guys. There's no elite more hostile than the one that fears it's going to be replaced.

The objections of those who oppose the release just don't stand up to scrutiny. The bulk of addons before O2 was released were crappy; they still are. Other games have had similar tools and you don't see an explosion of ripoffs. And the OFP community is relatively small and well regulated.

and a converter vs. a viewer is easy: you can learn a lot by walking around a modern aircraft. But if you can take it apart, you can actually learn how to build one.

WTG Snake_Man and Dschulle. Try to ignore that pricking sensation on your liver.

[MSpencer 0]

I don't see why you're all overreacting about this! It's just something so people can use a damn model for their own uses, not the entire damn community packing up and leaving!

If someone DOES steal a model for something more than themselves, which you should have no problem with, they'll get flamed to hell and back!

[Pathy 0]

Walking around an aircraft and taking one apart is not a good comparison....this is more like an oven hob, you can be told how it works but its not going to do you any good to touch it while its on!

You dont need to rip an addon to shreds to see how it works!

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

My view is that we will see how the things will go. What will be attitude of community. It is live fire test. :[

I agree that ODOL viewer would be perfect. Why converter? Time will show...

I fear, that if things will go wrong, number of new advanced models will go to zero, mainly because addonmakers would not want to make (and invest time into) something which could be spoiled in few minutes.

I am trying to believe it will serve for intented (promised) purpose.

I am trying to keep motivation to continue works on my several months projects.

Spelling edit

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

BTW. 2JGreyNemo: MAA haven't said that community IS dead, but that it WILL die IF things will go wrong.

[Pathy 0]

Well at the end of the day all we can do is watch, hope and wait, because we cant reverse the release.......

[Stag 0]

Yes but wardog, if youd downloaded the previous version, without a save function, youd still have your problem answered...

Never knew it existed.

And everybody knows damned well that anyone who tries to release a blatantly plagiarised addon will get very short shrift, so where is the problem, aside from giving the finger to the more elitist modmakers who don't want to share what they learned?

[Stag 0]

Quote[/b] ]I wouldn't worry about piracy; I'm sure the Addon Gestapo will be right on the ball.

I seriously doubt that any pirates will actually steal and modify models, mainly because they'll still have to use O2 to edit the models. Have you ever tried to edit a complex model? It's damn near impossible to change any part of the structure without creating texture inconsistencies, weird mixups in various physics LODs, etc...

Inherited a couple (with permission). IMO, it's easier to start from scratch.

[Lupus-WD- 0]

I am with Benu, Dinger and Co ...

and i am quite saddened when reading the negative comments on odol explorer.

And yes, i 've learnt a lot more about modelling and fixing models since i have been a partner to Operation Frenchpoint and able to edit their MLODS, rather than just "exploring" without being able to edit. Especially when it comes to normals and face problems which seem to be the weakest point of ofp addon makers.

And now, with odol explorer i can experiment on a lot of addons, and if my experimentations and fixes of normals for private use would lead to some nice result i would as said before submit a fixed model to the authors, which, if they were satisfied with it would relieve them from some unrewarding task and would finally benefit to the community.

Now, for those saying that if one doesnt intend on ripping/stealing some model he could simply ask the mlod. Of course, this would be a lot easier that lots of players flood addon makers with requests for every single mlod they make... not !

Same people regretting that martin would leave the addon scene for being annoyed when he used template textures from another game will now whine because ppl would use odolexp, or are these the same people who blamed Martin ?

[Stag 0]

When this tool will be used for riping addons and using parts from models/textures without permission, then talented addonmakers have 4 choices:

1. quit their work

2. still making addons but stop releasing addons to public.

3. releasing addons only to small community

4. start making addons for another game

5. keep on going as usual and not care on what lamers do

6. use the allmighty copyright law (you can complain to sites hosting the downloads for you ripped models for example, or if that doesnt work, operators hosting the hosting sites, etc.)

That sums it up nicely.

[Ironsight 1]

Bobby I agree with the most of what you just told but have a little faith in the OFP community.

I think most people will use it to increase their own knowledge about editing and don't improve, copy etc. (at least I hope )

But if the time will learn that this tool will be used for things were it doesn't mean to be used for I will be very dissapointed in those people.

So use this tool good and don't spoil things with it.

[Stag 0]

So according to Maa the OFP community is now dead.

Ok everyone time to format that Hard drive and throw your OFP discs in the bin because the OFP community is now dead because of the dastardly WRP team releasing that tool.

RIP Operation Flashpoint 2001-2004 - "Taken away from us so suddenly in the night... you who we were so fond, we only knew you shortly, but now you are gone."

[im]http://www.szilagyi.us/images/gravestones%20and%20churches/gravestone10.jpg[/img]

Mods, you might as well delete the forums now. There's really no point in going on.

I'm no stranger to sarcasm.