ODOL Explorer v2.0

[shinRaiden 0]

In echoing this idea, we could see hordes of localized versions of quality addons. But, a key part of getting permission also includes learning how things work.

For example, obviously a danish UH60 would not need a US ARMY logo on it, but it may need other logos. Rather than everyone running amuck hacking and thrashing, how about there be organized research and coordination?

[Kaliyuga 0]

[Major Fubar 0]

Well, the first thing I'm gonna do is put the bolt on the right side of the BIS hunting rifle, even if it's only for personal use

[Master_Chief 0]

Why are people still arguing about this subject? The tool has been released and many people have it now, so no use in arguing over its usage. Also, about the legal stuff, even if BIS unleashes a hellstorm of lawyers against the creators, its too late to make any difference to anyone other than the creators, so saying 'this is a break of copyright' doesn't matter anymore, because the damage is done. Besides I bet my left nut that BIS won't do anything so drastic.

[Kaliyuga 0]

I simply have to ask the addon maker or mod team for permission to modify their addon and make sure I give them complete credit for their work when the addon is released.  

lol.... you may be speaking for yourself there Miles....

but basically the door has been opened for any would be addon maker with little or no talent to blatantly steal other people's work...

if you planned on asking and getting permission in the first place then why would you need this tool?

wouldn't the real addon maker retain an unbinarized version on their own HD to be shared with those who did indeed ask permission?

yes there may be more addons released.. but how many will be less than 3% different than the existing addon out there?

now hurry along everyone and  go remove some small bits and pieces from everyone elses addons they worked for months on and then call them your own work..  

[miles teg 1]

Amen about the hunting rifle! One thing people need to remember also when making stuff based on BIS models (I'm guilty of not remembering this) is to remember to credit BIS also for their hard work on their models and textures (in addition for the game itself). BIS has so far been quite generous to the OFP community... yes its taken some time for some stuff but they know that prolonged sales of OFP2 will be heavily based upon the HUGE range of mods. Mods are a huge selling point for many more established FPS games like the Halflife series, but also newer ones who's mods got a lot of hype like the BF1942 mods.

Even Novalogic finally seems to be allowing Mods for their Blackhawk Down game.

Anyhoo... the main point is to remember BIS and give respect to them also.

As far as research and coordination, yet that all goes along with respect amongst the OFP addon making community. My brain gets picked all the time by various addon makers who I am friends with and viceversa, I ask questions to other addon makers about military stuff and Oxygen stuff quite often.

But I agree that more of this should be done.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Guest]

but basically the door has been opened for any would be addon maker with little or no talent to blatantly steal other people's work...

That door has been open for ages, and very little has been stolen. I think some of you will be suprised about how few addons will get released that have been "stolen"

[denoir 0]

Ah, if I had a penny for every time some addon makers collectively threw a fit over some tool being released...I'd have several pennies by now

Remember O2? People were hysterical, screaming that it would be the end of the community. Every noob with no talent would be making addons. The OFP scene would be flooded with crappy addons. People would steal all good addons and make their crappy copies of them etc It was to be the end of the OFP community.

The basic problem with OFP and addon making is based on a mistake that BIS made early on. Of course, they could have not known back then that it was a mistake but today with hindsight it's quite obvious. O2 should have not been released to a select group but to the general public. People like to belong to "special" groups. Some too much. When O2 finally went public, a number of modmakers were not too happy about not being "special" any more. The p3dedit saga is just a continuation of the same desire for elitism. And this is what has led to a lot of problems within the community. The ego-fixation of some addon makers is I think a direct result from this.

Anyway, I'm talking about a loud whining minority here. Most of the original modmakers have done exactly the opposite and shared their knowledge helping many other talented addon makers getting started.

Edit: Forgot to say: cheers to the makers of Odol explorer. I can only imagine how much work went into it. Good job guys

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

Thank you, thank you, thank you

I can't stop to thank you guys for the work put into this tool. This addon is a very good tool for less advanged addon-makers to learn from the proffecionals. Like Ebud, I don't think the stealing will be a major problem and I think it will be dealt with by the community if it happens. I myself have no ambition to steal addons, but just to see how certain things have been done. For me looking into othermans work is pretty much the only way to learn how it's done.

And now of course I can also edit some addons for personal use to include something or rescale/edit some old ones (nampack here I come   )

[Bobcatt666 0]

Simple if your addon maker and dislike this new tool, simpely don't bother releasing anymore addons, saves people from lots of headaces dealing with their work being violated sort of speak. Quite sure you own personal clans and close friends can better utilize your addon and respect your wishes to not steal them.

Pretty much now it seems like month of work to make some of these things isn't worth it, even more so you bothered making something from scratch. Giving credit isn't enough, I still think permission should be asked I think the addon maker should still have the right to say yes or no.. Seeing most addon makers state it in the read me files. Which lots of folks cheerfully ignore, around here and seldom catch flak. Then we hear the elisit word again.

Every damn community some noob has to throw that crap in. If there is any Elitisim its nobodies fault but your own. Mod addon makers are too busy trying to fix their addons to bother with this so called eliteisim. Which means lots of late nights on the pc reading data, to do research, then fight and I do mean fight with O2. I've used a lot of 3d programs, O2 is still one of the harder ones to deal with.

Waste a few months or to up to a year working on something getting it perfected, Hell I have gone back to to older annons and further devoloped then, but I one first bothered to track down the original creators, many of long left OFP communities and get their _permission_ then the decrytped data for the addons from them and set loose to get to work on development of the addon. Just a number of folks either lack the balls to bother a few minutes of typing a simple email and say hey, I wanna use your addon to make something else out of it is it ok. Most addon makers or mods usually won't have a problem with it unless they already had plans to do it and working on it at that time or in the near future. It be one of too things, yes you can here is the addon and model config and textures, or no sorry . Worked for me only one mod/addonmaker that not gotten a responce from mostlikely cause he's dealing with realife issues.

Didn't require begging and pleading, learn mostof the other folks are quite cool with it and even more open to help if I got stuck or didn't understand something. Even more tickled cause I shared the update with them that they later included in the following release and benifited everyone in OFP who might have used that addon. I myself have mixed thoughts on the tool, I'm sure some bonehead is gonna abuse it and really piss people off. I like it cause I can use it to do work on my own stuff now to check it in the viewer, cause I never got O2 to work right. Thanks for making the tool anyway, let me know when you make a image viewer for the textures than is nicer than texview. Something like ACDC.. ;)

[kavoven 4]

Great tool

[Pathy 0]

Whats the use of this tool?

Its illegal to convert BIS models......and nobody respectful is going to steal someone elses models...........so all it does is allow other non respectful addon makers to rip off the rest of us....and bollocks to the "but we can learn from it"........ODOL explorer already allowed people to LOOK at ODOLs.....anything more is not needed.

Would all the people advocating this tool tell me EXACTLY what they plan to do with it? Certainly not edit BIS models, thats illegal.....and you wouldnt rip off someone elses models.....and you could have learned easily enough from an earlier version.....so, just what is the use of this tool? To give the Leet Haxor brigade the chance to rip apart others hard work??

[Master_Chief 0]

There are two main bugs when converting with this tool:

1. It doesn't save the 'mass' settings on the geometery lod

2. In the 'named properties' section, the name of the property has a space after it, so it doesn't work in ofp unless you edit out the space after the name.

[RED 0]

Would all the people advocating this tool tell me EXACTLY what they plan to do with it? Certainly not edit BIS models, thats illegal.....and you wouldnt rip off someone elses models.....and you could have learned easily enough from an earlier version.....so, just what is the use of this tool? To give the Leet Haxor brigade the chance to rip apart others hard work??

Editing anything BIS is 'illegal'. For example why do you think this should be any different to editing a BIS texture? I don't think your complaining will get you anywhere, if BIS have a problem with this tool then they will deal with it.

Great tool guys, I think I might finally give modelling a bash!

RED

[Crowley 0]

Would all the people advocating this tool tell me EXACTLY what they plan to do with it? Certainly not edit BIS models, thats illegal.....and you wouldnt rip off someone elses models.....and you could have learned easily enough from an earlier version.....so, just what is the use of this tool? To give the Leet Haxor brigade the chance to rip apart others hard work??

I plan on examining the released versions of addons which I am going to modify. I have permission by the creators to edit and release every addon that I plan on making a single change to. They all stipulated that I give them credit for their creations and the thought of not giving them their deserved credit never crossed my mind.

This isn't an announcement but I recently recieved the unbinarized version of Skaircro's F-5 airplane from Skaircro along with permission to release it. I plan on converting it to a Canadair CF-5 (not a lot of work on my part). I didn't want to waste his time, I simply asked for his permission and for the unbinarized original. I got the model, but not much explanation of how this single model became the four in his beta release. However, I didn't ask for detailed explanations; with ODOL explorer I can simply look at his released version to find out what happened between these stages and I won't have to waste his time with nagging questions. I certainly will not "blatantly steal other people's work," in this case, and all the addons I want to work on, I'll actually be finishing an incomplete addon.

There has been some excessive levels of elitism conserning p3dedit and odol explorer, it all seems to be borne from paranoia. Just keep in mind that 99% of people who would make the absurd rip-offs cited by some addon makers will stick to Counter-Strike. The majority of the OFP editing community is mature enough to handle the existance of these programs. Anyone who does "blatantly steal [an]other" persons work will be spotted pretty quick.

Quote[/b] ]Certainly not edit BIS models, thats illegal.....

This has been done already, this release means nothing.

I don't see it now but someone mentioned that this will allow people to look at OFP2 material much sooner. I have to wonder what their point was. More people will be able to edit another great game and from them we'll get some inevitable shit and some golden addons, like usual. If BIS code had never been unravelled we wouldn't have great addons like Martin's DC3, all the new islands, working submersibles, new cityscapes, a plethora of scripts, mod specific load screens, napalm bombs, nuclear explosions, custom textures, aircraft carriers, aircraft that are almost impossibly large, etc, etc, etc.... The ability to edit the game is not a bad thing. The sooner OFP2 can be edited the sooner we'll start getting great things like these with it.

[colonel_klink 0]

*Puts on Devil's Advocate's Robes

Hmm just wondering if anybody has thought of the wider implications outside of OFP. For example an addon maker has created a really nice aircraft, spent hours and hours on it and finally gets it into OFP. The community oohs and aahs over it and it gets included into many missions and even a mod or two.

An addon maker from another game, say BF:1942 or even CFS2/3 is looking for a model that he/she could put into his/her favourite game. Does a search and downloads the OFP addon and thinks, there must be some way of converting this. A friend suggests P3dEdit or even ODOL Explorer which takes the model back to its raw OFP state. Then with another freely available tool: Oxygen to 3dsmax conversion toolkit the model is then converted to 3ds which is then converted to BF:1942 or CFS2/3 format. A few changes to the model structure, change of texture and there is a new addon for these games.

In the case of CFS2/3 where payware is available, the converted OFP model could possibly be sold without any remuneration to the original creator.

*Removes Devil's Advocate's Robes

I think the community on the whole is responsible enough when it comes to other people's work, and there will be ratbags that will try to pass off other's as their own, however the scenario above is the one not to be ignored.

Having said that, there have been addons created in other game formats that have been converted to OFP, textures included. In most case due recognition of the original authors has been given.

As a development tool ODOL Explorer has been added to my kit. Thanks Wrptool team.

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

This tool offers you the possibility to open up a ODOL format addon to learn from it, but also to edit it. So you don't have to ask the auther to send you the unbinarized files (but don't forget to ask for permission to edit it in the first place).

one other thing that should not be overlooked (and has already been mentioned): Binarizing an addon is NOT protecting them. This was not the idea behind that tool. So an addonmaker afriad of this tool should simply protect his pbo file from unpacking (which can be done). Of course people can always hack them, but this always happens. When the DVD came out it was promoted as un-hackable, but was cracked after 48 hours. You can't stop that from happening.

Quote[/b] ]Would all the people advocating this tool tell me EXACTLY what they plan to do with it? Certainly not edit BIS models, thats illegal.....and you wouldnt rip off someone elses models.....and you could have learned easily enough from an earlier version.....so, just what is the use of this tool? To give the Leet Haxor brigade the chance to rip apart others hard work??

As said above; people were already able to hack into ODOL files, so thi stool won't change a thing. Becides; Binarizing was not a protection for the p3d and addonmakers can still protect the pbo file.

I will tell what I'll do with this; If I see an interesting addon and it's in ODOL format, but I like to edit some small thing for personal use, I'lll use this tool for it. I'll also use it for the proces of learning (I didn't know ODOL explorer v1.0 excisted). I won't hack into BIS models and I don't see why I want to; almost every usermade addon is higher qualitiy than the BIS ones.

Why are you afraid of people hacking others works? What do you think will happen when the someone releases an addon and we find out it's a hacked one from (for example) BAS or Jackel326? Stealing addons was something that was already something that would destroy your reputation forever. It's won't happen that people will start to release addons like that. What most likely will happen is that addons will be edited by people for personal use and they will never be released to the public. But I already did this since I learned how to use O2. There's nothing wrong woth it and sometimes  can result in an even better addon when you send your improvements to the original addonmaker.

bottumline; noone needs to be affraid of this tool.

Quote[/b] ]The majority of the OFP editing community is mature enough to handle the existance of these programs. Anyone who does "blatantly steal [an]other" persons work will be spotted pretty quick.

couldn't have said it better

[ag_smith 0]

As a proof of learning value of this tool, I present you with a problem I had and a solution that I've quickly found, thanks to ODOL Explorer.

Click Me!

Cheers to the authors of this very usefull tool!

[Lupus-WD- 0]

Excellent tool, thanx a lot for releasing it

i've learnt so much things from mlods this past months and now i can learn from odols too.

also i wanted to fix some normals and faces on some addons, and NOT release them but submit the fixed models to the authors, up to them to decide then if they want to release or not... or something like that.

I'd never steal their work, and if i should release something based on someone else's work, of course a mention isnt enough, one would have to request and have permission.

I think that most of the community is mature enough for that and if some stolen addons would surface their "makers" wouldnt get any good publicity from that anyway.

Now, i noticed that the weight is lost at conversion, and some other glitches occurs that i am investigating on...

thanx again for the too

[Gen.Carnage 0]

i predict a tidalwave of addons beeing released from now on... and there were allready loads of good, high quality, original addons.

Now what we will see are loads of good addons, that have been 'ripped off' (hopefully with permission) flooding ofp community even more.

Those who DO make their own stuff, will see their months of work get totally lost in this addon melee.

This seriously leaves me with the questions: should i not look for another game to start modding for?

Or maybe i should quit this whole releasing business alltogether and keep all the stuff to myself.

Recently, when we release something, the amount of attention our very hard work gets is just marginal, the bitchers and whiners are allways on the upper hand of the comments, and for some reason, the innovations DKM put in the addons is seldom recognised.

Im sure a lot of time and effort went into creating this tool, but i still regard it as a 'hacking' tool.

So i wonder, why was this tool made? Is it made out of contempt for the addonmakers attempts to protect their months and sometimes years of hard work?

It cannot be made for opening up BIS's models, there was allready a tool around for that, which was kept from the large public for a good reason.

So it was made to let people learn from the addonmakers models? yeah right!.. if that was the case they would have left out the option to save as MLOD!

Because of this i allready saw one skilled addonmaker leave in this thread, more to follow.....

Some will say this is overreacting: i don't care, im simply explaining to you folks how i, as addonmaker, feel about this.

The tool in itself is a good piece of work, but im worried about what will happen to the allready spoiled rotten community now.

There are allways people with utter disrespect for other peoples hard work and will steal addons, as long as they dont get away with it we still have a chance!

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

[edited]

[T J 0]

I am uncertain of the legal issues surrounding this release, so will not pass comment on that.

Also, I have never made anything more than a simple model that has been part of another release.

I do however write scripts for addons. Now, I deliberately make these as simple as possible, so that other addon makers can learn from and improve on my original ideas, (I preface each script with a KISS reminder <keep it simple stupid!>). I have however seen many times elements or even the whole scripts used in other addons or missions, without so much as a "thanks TJ" in a PM, let alone a mention in the credits. So if you asked me if the same thing will apply to models, then I would say "yes". Wheels, doors, cockpits etc, they'll all be finding their way into other addons. OK, but that happens already, and I dont think much can be done.

What does bother me though is the shortcut mentality. When I decided to learn how to write scripts for OFP, I didn't read any tutorials as such, but rather took the BIS comref and went through every command. Then created a dedicated server and literally hundreds of test missions to learn the way that OFP works in MP, exactly how triggers act, etc etc etc. Because I did it from scratch, I now understand it a LOT better than If I had copy/pasted from somebody else's scripts.

And I can have a sense of pride and acheivement in what I do, knowing that the endless hours of learning are paying off.

Likewise, the best models in OFP have been created by dedicated modellers, who have spent hours of their own time with trial and error, to get things right. I was privileged to watch this process in action, as SelectThis created a new blackhawk model from scratch. Blood sweat and tears pretty much accurately describes the development process, but the end result was a professional quality model.

<Here Col Klinks concerns are very valid. Quality models for use in game cost $$$>

So it would seem that the incentive now to acheive the modelling proficiency of somebody like Col Klink, or SelectThis is drastically reduced, meaning another overall decline in the skillbase for OFP. We already see a glut of low quality addons, it would be much nicer in this gamers opinion to have fewer addons of a higher standard, which have been created by gamers willing to take the time to acheive a quality product, rather than Shortcut Joe's rehash of another model.

And that is why I think, that ODOL Explorer should have been just that. Not ODOL converter.

I wonder now, given the points that Col Klink raised, whether BIS will introduce a new format for future upcoming products, and if so, whether that would delay the release. It would be nice to hear an official point of view.

TJ

[Snake Man 407]

1. It doesn't save the 'mass' settings on the geometery lod

2. In the 'named properties' section, the name of the property has a space after it, so it doesn't work in ofp unless you edit out the space after the name.

Thanks for letting us know, we'll looking into this if we can get them fixed.

If anyone have any other bugs or suggestions of new features in reasonable limits, feel free to post them here.

[MiG2003 0]

First of all, sorry for my English .

What i think about all this, is that odol explorer new version is a good tool for people learn how to. Obviously, some folks will use other people addons in the bad way, but we all have to live with that. I release my addons in odol format because  they became lighter and optimized. Don't have any problem in sharing MLOD version of my addons of afraid that people use them as long as , at least, the addon gets better or anyway corrected. I think that BIS should release the other O2 tool (or a plugin for O2 light) that allows people to save directly in ODOL format, so we could save some time binarizing the stuff. For those who are afraid of this tool and don't want to share their work with others i must say that there are ways of  protecting their ODOL files so P3d edit and Odol Explorer can't open it!!!  

Another thing: there are some Addonmakers that keep using BIS stuff (model parts from original Demo MLOD files and textures) without giving any credit to BIS in the readme files. That is wrong, don't you think? Mainly because some of them don't want to share their knowlege or their addons with anyone !!!

I must congratulate the creatores of P3d Edit and now Odol Explorer and i say this: People, use my addons and change it whatever you like! Just gimme a little line in the readme and most important : Always credit BIS!

[Drill Sergeant 0]

@ Miles Teg.

Please be carefull what you read, 3 months of on and off to master 6 months of screwing around with gizmo maping before you realised hey theres got to be an easyer way to map something. Hence I found the key layout page, some where. Within 7 months I made my first high high high end addon which was my set of M9's then came the paint ball gun,

then the AUGs.  

I really didn't mind makeing models and skining a few of them  as best I can (which isn't good at all.) This is one of the  reasons I am leaveing by this summer.

@ DKM Carnage. Hey right on I wanted to say all that and  more but I'd get a slap on the wrists I bet.

Like I stated no one that's got any commen sence will steal

a model out right, but peice by peice here and there and then

you have a CS hack style thing. 8+ people's names on 20

or so parts of a gun's model. Get's confuseing and it's easy

just to say compiled by John Doe. I'm not AS concerned if some one USED one of my models without permission or credit

(I would still be upset about that.) But the main thing is, all you need is one guy funneling your models out on turbosquid

or ebay. Belive it or not I had some one who was offering to

help skin (Non OFP player) and he asked if I would send him my models to sell on turbo squid. I imediately told him off and

blocked him. (This was on the very first convo with him.)

The real moral of the story for me is: Most guns/things

are made to a specific scale and or stlye when they get hacked, repacked and released it can shame the authors.

Why? because youve got there names on 2 or more merged things. Now that this tool is part of the comunity in a way.

Nothing is sacred any more. Though 99% of the the people

here know they'd get caught doing something like that, you'll always have one bad apple. So even if we combat this bad apple you also have a bad orang, selling things possibly.

If some one can make away to RANDOMLY lock things with a password or such yeah great it'd be worth concidering coming

back to.

Insults or things people say about you are one thing and

only sting for a month or two at the most. But the shear

amount of personal property dammage that can be done is

unamaganable. I'm shure the majority of us in here won't do

that. And hey if this was the ONLY thing that I had to contend with in this comunity I'd stay for longer then

another 9 weeks.

I just hope you all realise just how much time and some times

frustration is put into each addon. I personaly have been modeling for almost 2 years. Trust me it's ALMOST   comparable to being pregnant. Not that I can say that with

any true knowlege but it's growing addons.

To anyone who says us addon makers take things TOO sereously this is what I say to you.

It takes us any where from hours to months to make things.

It takes you less then 5 seconds to get into them without permission. Now I'm not exadurateing nor bragging when

I say this, for me it only takes any where from 4-6 hours to make a gun model. After that I set it down and work on something else and come back a few days latter and improve  on it. Shure I've been doing it for afew years (o2) but, BUT

that is only because I couldn't hack into EARLS or BAS's M4's and re arange them. So instead I re built the wheel, only the

way I wanted it. HIGH POLLY.

Now 3 weeks and 5,500 Pollies later, my M4. no skins, but with the detail in it, it really doesn't need skins. Shure it's white and since it's custom no skins fit on it, but it's MINE. That little word MINE adds allot of pride to the addon makeing comunity. Not a bad kind of  pride, but the good self aware kind. At points I was so  frustrated because EARL or BAS had a beter set of M4's then

I did. So I used that frustration and from the insults I had the

anger, some good music and the tallent. And I made my stuff

from scratch.

Shure it's a old story, a long story but it's my story.

Which makes it special in some way.  

Now sadly I'm sitting here 2 years later, all kinds of knowlge  with o2, but, still a punk because these great guns have no  skins. Yes were drifting off topic but the point is, even if I released now with some hacked up BIS skins. (Please no  comments no one else is helpin ATM.)

The fact is I battled other teams, and CS imports and insults.

For what? A great set of models. Yeah. And thats it.

My work and if youre gona edit it or would like to. I'd like to

know. See thats the thing, this tool was orrigonaly in the hands of only MODLERS and MODS. Which add to the game.

Shure maybe we'll see more new addons BASED off of old

ones. Shure it will resurect old prodjects but wait.

THERE OLD! Woudln't we just be beter off building new ones?

It's 5:41 am here so I am shure you are all sitting around shakeing your heads saying to your self. Oh Grandpa DS is

telling us one of his crazy war storries again.

Like I said before, if it can be proven this will reduce "crime"

then sobeit. I personaly think this is gona add to the fray.

And I am not shure If I made ANY sence at all but I needed to post something and it's 5:45 am so please be nice to me.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY! BEFORE P3D EDIT. WHEN I WANTED SOMETHING I MADE IT. I NOT ONLY MADE IT. I MADE IT BETTER THEN THE LAST.

NOW ANYBODY CAN RIP UP ANYTHING AND PUT IT INTO ANYTHING.

MY OFFICAL POSITION ON THIS TOOL. IF BIS SAYS IT'S OK AND NO ONE STEALS OR FEW STEAL SO BE IT.

IF IT IS OTHERWISE. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOULS BECAUE BIS's LAWERS WILL NOT.

Basicaly, I think thats what I wanted to say. I think I'll post tomorrow when I'm in a normal state of mind instead of slumped over and almost passed out infront of a computer.

And since I know you are all takeing advantage of me because I am slumped over almost half passed out, if there are no problems I might return. Otherwise, when I get ota school this summer thats it with me and OFP stuff.

BTW Doesn't this change OFP2 in any way? I mean it's like BIS same coding for both OFP1 and 2 right? I wonder if this

effects OFP2's release date in any way?