Lost the ArmA 3 hype

[dav 22]

On 1/11/2017 at 5:31 PM, semiconductor said:

Lucky you, I've never really got into Arma 3 in the first place thanks for the retarded setting and Mediterranean-centered graphics. I've waited for mods to come and fix it but somehow they never did and no matter what I tried I just can't get that Arma 2 feeling back and mind you, I've started playing Arma 2 a month after Arma 3 Alpha came out so that's not some "grass was greener" syndrome.

 

For me, Arma 3 just doesn't feel right: the lighting is unrealistic, the weapons look and feel like made of plastic, the terrains are boring and uninspiring etc. I just don't feel that connection I felt towards Arma 2's setting and graphics.

Sigh. Maybe Arma 4 will be better.

 

Agreed, and they can place the term 'splendid' back in the dictionary where it belongs, when in all fairness this 'future' nonsense is so unrealistic, this 'Final Fantasy 7' vibe sucks.

[lawndartleo 109]

4 hours ago, dav said:

 

Agreed, and they can place the term 'splendid' back in the dictionary where it belongs, when in all fairness this 'future' nonsense is so unrealistic, this 'Final Fantasy 7' vibe sucks.

 

What is so implausible about the setting of ArmA III?

 

Guns... check

Planes... check

Helicopters... check

Lightsabers... nope

Starfighters.... none of those either

 

It's a near future relatively plausible scenario that is maturing nicely.

[BadHabitz 235]

I still love this game.

 

This new forum software on the other hand, makes me come here much less than in the past. I used to check on the progress of mods, and look for discussion and updates. Now I just mainly look at the RHS thread and then go check the Armaholic main page for mod news.

[semiconductor 309]

3 hours ago, lawndartleo said:

What is so implausible about the setting of ArmA III?

Guns... check

Planes... check

Helicopters... check

 

Let me illustrate: what's do you think is implausible about the picture below?

 

Tanks - check

Guns - check

Red Square - check

Red flags - check

 

If a person doesn't know shit about military equipment then he might take this picture as a legit photo of Russian Victory Day parade but if he knows that an Abrams is in fact an American tank then he might get that subtle feeling that there's something not right about this image. Same with Arma: if you don't know that the T-100 is actually a discarded project that is rotting at a backyard of some factory since virtually last millennium then you might very well enjoy Arma 3's "futurism" that happen to be a weird mix of such discarded projects from 90's, low-polygonal versions of vehicles from 1960's (yes, Huron, I'm looking at you), relatively rare weapons some of which date back to the beginning of the past century, a bunch Cold War-era vehicles of various origin randomly thrown to some bland, uninteresting factions without any trace of logic (Iranian Negev? lolwut? Greeks are so poor that they can't afford a decent IFV but somehow end up with bleeding-edge German tanks?) wrapped in the fact that there's nothing futuristic about all that.

[lawndartleo 109]

Semi, I guess I do not focus on the hardware as much as I do the fun that my friends and I have in ArmA.  We have one guy who is ex military and he tells us all about the "defects" of the game hardware just as you have.... and then we go have a boatload of fun, I think he does more so than any of us.  Is the game a patchwork quilt of nonsense, YES.  Does that take away from the overall experience... I guess it could if you are so detail oriented.

 

 

 

[cosmic10r 2331]

Personnally I think the joy of Arma is that you can make it your own...

 

Don't like the future setting... there is always cup, unsung, rhs, ifa to name a few.

 

It can be a pain to keep everything updated but I think you would be hard pressed to find a game that gives such a wide range of options to its player base.

 

I routinely flip around the setting to keep it fresh and the modding community has to be in the top 3 for talent and passion in any of the games I have seen.

 

 

[semiconductor 309]

1 hour ago, lawndartleo said:

Semi, I guess I do not focus on the hardware as much as I do the fun that my friends and I have in ArmA.  We have one guy who is ex military and he tells us all about the "defects" of the game hardware just as you have.... and then we go have a boatload of fun, I think he does more so than any of us.  Is the game a patchwork quilt of nonsense, YES.  Does that take away from the overall experience... I guess it could if you are so detail oriented.

That's true, when I fist got into Arma 2 I couldn't tell M4 from M16, let alone it's variations (to be completely honest, I still don't know the exact differences between A1/A2/A3/A4 versions besides fire modes :D) and I tremendously enjoyed killing dumb AIs by thousands with 2-3 men squad. I remember my first mission for Arma 3 where you've got to kill, like, a battalion worth of enemies, using dozens of vehicles, respawns, unlimited ammo and weapons. It was fun, for a while. But as the time went on I started to want a more deep, interesting and challenging gameplay and Arma 2 had pretty much everything ready for that style, the only thing needed was ACE mod. The terrain was interesting and quite atmospheric, the factions were unique and felt somehow connected with the map (apart from the US intervention, somewhat similar scenario happened in Ukraine IRL), the gear, albeit somewhat inaccurate, was consistent, in the same time-frame and were distributed reasonably among factions.

 

Nothing of that is present in Arma 3 and I believe that one of the main reasons (apart from development hiccups) it isn't is because BI thought that the majority of players wouldn't care anyway so why "waste" time making deep, thought-out and interesting world when you can throw a bunch of assets together and call it a day.

[lawndartleo 109]

Ah, the good old days of ACE 2.

 

Three things...

 

ACE 3... be prepared to fiddle with modules to suit your tastes.

ZEUS... This is the one thing that might have saved ArmA for me. It is the heart of our game play.

Ares Mod - Achilles Expansion... only makes Zeus that much better.

 

This is the core of our groups gameplay.  No canned missions.  Limited by the creativity of our own minds.

 

Just a suggestion in hopes that I can convince people that there is more to ArmA than the same old "rinse and repeat" that missions can become no matter how dynamic the authors may try to make them.

 

 

[joostsidy 685]

On 14-1-2017 at 8:05 PM, semiconductor said:

Nothing of that is present in Arma 3 and I believe that one of the main reasons (apart from development hiccups) it isn't is because BI thought that the majority of players wouldn't care anyway so why "waste" time making deep, thought-out and interesting world when you can throw a bunch of assets together and call it a day.

 

BI chose the current assets to refresh the game look and feel for marketing purposes as well as for their own design team. They didn't want to recreate blackhawks, A4 and Humvees all over again. The fictional names are to avoid licensing issues.

 

In the beginning I was a little bit disappointed. In the past you could gain a lot of real world knowledge by playing the game (identifying RL weaponry). But over time I have learned to embrace it more or less. OFP and Arma have always been 'quirky' with strange things going on in the game. Now the game assets remind you to take it not so seriously. As long as the assets are there to create tactical gameplay with some combined arms, I'm happy. Of course I have my own wishlist of things that I would like to see improved.

 

To steer the topic a little more on-topic, I must say this thread has at least been helpful for my motivation. Ive decided to post my current WIP mission on Steam (prob next week or so). The working-for-the-community mindset of the OP has made me feel a little guilty, that I never share the stuff I make :-)

[andersson 285]

I lost my motivation when I tried to create small simpla OFP missions and couldn't get the basic AI maneuvers/WP to work. When you can't trust AI vehicles and WP you kinda give up. Also the bouncy tanks is such a immersion killer for me. Sure you can always find a way to get your mission done, but what used to be simple basic things is today for some reason hours of frustration with the end result that even if it works you can't trust it will next time you try.

[bonchie 39]

Until the AI gets a major rewrite or update that completely changes the nature of the gameplay, Arma3 will always have that feeling.

 

I still play COOP once a week in a private session (we use addons, not the default future stuff), but it's mostly about the people I play, not Arma3 being awesome.

 

And after every session, the number 1 thing that is most likely to of hurt our session is the AI.

[v76 2]

On 1/1/2017 at 1:02 AM, sniper_x002 said:

Happens with any game I really like for me. Eventually you may play it too much, and need a break (even if it's your favorite)

Nup..... played ofp/armed assault/arma2 near exclusively since 2001, only since arma3 have I lost interest and I have f'all hours compared to the ~20,000 put into the former titles, its non existent weapons (oh yes nubs they are real but 98% will never see active service and 99.9% of us will never see one used let alone use one ourselves) its 3-6 rounds to kill, the cut and paste vehicle models, the dayz/cod masses that have destroyed most servers and the community because this game has been tailored to the mainstream ... well from what it use to be pre a3.

[froggyluv 2136]

On 1/18/2017 at 0:38 PM, bonchie said:

Until the AI gets a major rewrite or update that completely changes the nature of the gameplay, Arma3 will always have that feeling.

 

I still play COOP once a week in a private session (we use addons, not the default future stuff), but it's mostly about the people I play, not Arma3 being awesome.

 

And after every session, the number 1 thing that is most likely to of hurt our session is the AI.

 

 Can you be more specific about what exactly bothers you about the AI? Im not sure BI really gets how many people depend on a solid AI experience as they seem to be staking their future on MP gameplay and I suspect that they think that the AI are good enough for Coop play.

[mmm 35]

Well ARMA 3's battle management is surely super advanced! You produce real time 3D target track at individual soldier level, which also enables cooperative engagement within your squad by just keeping targets within your field of view. The AR overlay on your see-through HMD tracks every squadmate as well as your current objective in the environment is definitely a decade or two ahead, at least before the tech proliferates. So far Nett warrior only does the map thing. No sarcasm intended that's really what every military's trying to replicate in real life. Soldiers armed with that kind of SA will have everything so streamlined they'll be as fast reacting as we do in ARMAverse.

 

But hardware wise it is disappointing. 2035 still no airburst grenade, nor do you have full solution FCS on your small arms. No loitering munition like switch blade or direct fire miniature guided munition like the Raytheon Pike concept. Your laser designator can't even generate target GPS coordinate. It is unfortunate the "futurism" is not reflected in gameplay.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

totally normal behavior.....it's just burnout.

i just took 3 months away from Arma after completing my Island Thunder campaign, and it's a pattern every year or so for me.

you will get the desire back after a good break.

[natoed 12]

hell I only bought arma 3 for the mods and as there are so few now its getting boring

[andersson 285]

The AI is so much better in A3. Better than ever. BUT it seems it came with a cost as they are much worse at driving vehicles. It seems like the microAI is on even in vehicles as they try to move with the same logic. They did it in OFP too but then the foot soldiers were more stiff as a group. I would love to have the more simple OFP/armed assault AI for vehicles and turn the A3 microAI on when the soldiers are on foot.

 

But I probably talk out of my arse as I have no clue really how BI do it, but I would love OFP/armed assault-vehicles and A3 soldiers when it comes to AI.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

On 1/21/2017 at 1:09 AM, froggyluv said:

 

 Can you be more specific about what exactly bothers you about the AI? Im not sure BI really gets how many people depend on a solid AI experience as they seem to be staking their future on MP gameplay and I suspect that they think that the AI are good enough for Coop play.

 

For me, (and I think im more qualified than most here to discuss the arma AI):

 

- Infantry inability to use buildings without advanced scripting. (1.66)

- Vehicle inability to use roads, even with advanced scripting. (1.66)

- Civilians are performance-hungry, dont know what sidewalks are and are not useful for simulating civilians in a combat zone or civilian area (no ability to properly simulate a crowd of people without 10000 lines of external SQF code).

- Helicopters like WY-55 Hellcat with fixed-fire pilot weapons are completely broken, they've forgotten how to point toward the target. (1.66)

 

 

 

Its clear BI is leaving AI behind in favor of more industry standard gameplay (end game, argo, etc). Hopefully work on their new mode Combat Patrol will inspire management to allocate more resources to working on their sandbox AI and also custom AI (ones that can use buildings and do what they're told 100% of the time).

[lawndartleo 109]

1 hour ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

Its clear BI is leaving AI behind in favor of more industry standard gameplay (end game, argo, etc).

 

The release of Project Argo really struck me as odd as well.  All I can think if when playing is that this is Tom Clancy's Rainbow 6 Seige... ArmA style.

[Gunter Severloh 4071]

On 1/14/2017 at 0:25 AM, lawndartleo said:

 

What is so implausible about the setting of ArmA III?

 

Guns... check

Planes... check

Helicopters... check

Lightsabers... nope

Starfighters.... none of those either

 

It's a near future relatively plausible scenario that is maturing nicely.

Lightsabers... https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/185608-lightsaber-system/

Starfighters.... 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/186734-wip-t-65b-x-wing-starfighter-and-tieln-starfighter/

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26198

 

[lawndartleo 109]

 

...I guess I stand corrected.

 

 

[Kotlx 0]

getting burned out on games is inevitable. New content can extend or revitalize your interest, but unfortunately Arma is an intense game to add to. I think that's why Life servers do so well. It's a great place to create your own fun. 

[mathias_eichinger 64]

I feel you guys, same here for me.

 

I am editing missions for OFP and all it's successors since early 2005, and that "assault the village/blow up the Scud" stuff gets old after more than a decade. What is actually driving the final nail into the coffin is the EDEN editor with its over reliance of modules (to me the map looks like a mess now). A friendly individual on this forums (csk22) did a briefing for me because I did not succeed in creating one myself, so I might release a very basic mision in the near future.

But the problem still stands, we all are thrown back to re-learning all the basic mission editing stuff again, while at the same time we are running out of ideas and out-of-the-box scripting in out of reach.

 

I suck at MP, but I would gladly buy a OFP Remake DLC, because back then they had believeable characters in a potentially apocalyptic Cold War scenario which was much easier to connect with emotionally than the bland SciFi stuff. 

 

If somebody wants to start on a SP mission or campaign project NOT set in the future  (or War on Terror over and over again), I'd be happy to participate, somehow I'd love to see something as epic and interesting as the original OFP campaign, and having a hand in this would be even better. 

[Undeceived 392]

I recently played a nice OPF SP campaign. 1988 - Red Star Rises by Calman13 (https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/201080-1988-red-star-rises-version-11/).

 

I felt like in the first days in 2001! :)

And I think that I discovered (at least for me, after playing it after a very long time) what the essence and the reason for these feelings and for the awesomeness of OFP is, compared to the later versions, including A3 (which did a good job but doesn't reach OFP):

 

Many things in OFP were "black and white" and thus SIMPLE and thus absolutely emotionally accessible. Its rough graphics - you could see if there's someone in the fields and forests or not. The enemy: Russians vs. USA - the mother of all conflict partys (apart from Nazi Germany in WWII). The story characters (including the eastern accent) - sharp edges. The campaigns - Move to the village and take it, straight forward tasks. The sunsets - fire on the sky, such a beauty. The short view distance - you had the overview and everything happened just and only around you.

Many things were on or off, there wasn't much "grey" in it. They were drawn very strongly and clearly and you knew what was going on and what to do.

 

This is what the following games don't have (that much), they became more and more complex, you can't tell if there's someone in these bushes ahead, you have to "process" much more in your brain, many more details, view distance, weapons, etc. The setting (future) has no connection to me, the characters are not that elaborated and don't have this roughness, the sunsets aren't that red and powerful, the enemy is like "Who the hell are you??" or "What the fuck is the SLA?" (I was absolutely disappointed in Arma 1 - the SLA caused no emotions at all for me, thus I couldn't take them as a threat), and so on and so on. Now think about the SLA and then think about the actual Ukrainian conflict or the conflict in the southern Chinese sea - I am immediately emotionally hooked when thinking about it as it's something I know and it has caused emotions in me earlier already.

 

And this might go a bit in the direction of what Mathias Eichinger says, even though I strongly have to disagree with him on EDEN! What I said above is from a player's perspective but from the point of view of a mission designer the 3d editor was the BEST thing that could happen to us. Its possibilities saved me countless hours already and I'm still impressed by it.

 

[mathias_eichinger 64]

Hi undeceived,

 

thank you for that OFP link. Amazing that anybody would edit OFP missions in this day and age! Unfortunately, the savegames cause CTDs. I am amazed how you spell out the difference between OFP and later iterations. This is that itch I feel towards all the ArmA's but I could just not point the finger on the root cause.

As I reflect on it, SciFi works in books (which I love!) because there is much "world building" involved, as authors detail their amazing settings in front of the reader. Not so much in computer games, let alone ArmA3, where the immersive background is presented in just a few broad strokes in the intro - not enough to connect with emotionally.

 

So the solution would either be to develop characters at length (best example: the works of art in your signature), or to do a historic/modern day scenario for which the player already has an understanding or a concept in the back of his head.