# ACE3 - A collaborative merger between AGM, CSE, and ACE

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1 minute ago, Devastator_cm said:

how the numbers are really working in the settings?
Epinefrine wake up change starts from 1 till 30 but wake up chance between 0 and 1. So wake up chance is % wise working but how is the epinefrine which is between 1 and 30? Any idea?

Epinephrine multiplies the normal wakeup chance.
5% multiplied by 1 is... 5%.
5% multiplied by 2 is 10%

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24 minutes ago, Dedmen said:

Epinephrine multiplies the normal wakeup chance.
5% multiplied by 1 is... 5%.
5% multiplied by 2 is 10%

and how to find that 5% multiplier in that equation? I think I miss that in the settings or it is not described yet

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1 minute ago, Devastator_cm said:

and how to find that 5% multiplier in that equation? I think I miss that in the settings or it is not described yet

its described in the setting description.

every 15 seconds there is a 5% chance that any unit might spontaneously wake up from unconsciousness.

30 minutes ago, Devastator_cm said:

wake up chance between 0 and 1

there is the 5%. 0.05 is 5%.

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I am still lost...

So here  it states it makes every 15 seconds a check to wake up the person. I assume when I set this one to 0.2 it means 20% chance that person will wake up in case he is stable

Now this one states epi increases how often the check is done. So the 2 which I set makes now what? If it is increasing the frequency of wakeup check then I assume it is making it now 13 seconds instead of 15 as I set 2. In that case what will do 30 as max setting for that glider is 30

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58 minutes ago, Devastator_cm said:

I am still lost...

So here  it states it makes every 15 seconds a check to wake up the person. I assume when I set this one to 0.2 it means 20% chance that person will wake up in case he is stable

Now this one states epi increases how often the check is done. So the 2 which I set makes now what? If it is increasing the frequency of wakeup check then I assume it is making it now 13 seconds instead of 15 as I set 2. In that case what will do 30 as max setting for that glider is 30

here's the code.

Guess I'm wrong, it doesn't boost chance, it reduces interval.

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Some of us will really need a video tutorial on the new Medical Rework and how each parameter works...

I find it somewhat confusing so far...

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Our group has pulled together what we think will work for us and are looking forward to field testing it this weekend.

We did an ACE tutorial for the entire mod in the past, if anyone from ACE3Mods would like to work with me, I would be more than happy to put something together.

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On 1/3/2020 at 11:39 AM, JD Wang said:

But that's the best thing about the new system, you can adjust it to suit much easier than the old version.

Sure, I am not disputing that, I was just pointing out why someone might prefer the old system. One person's "better" is the other person's "worse".

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17 hours ago, Jimi Markkanen said:

Loving the new medical system! The ones who hate it aren't maybe the target audience for ACE as per terms of realism..

That is elitist bollocks. No system implemented in a game can be realistic, or you would have to stop playing for six months after you get shot in order to recover. Arma is a game, and as such, there is a balance to strike between realism and fun.

Now, as I said before, the new system requires tweaking to match the playstyle and taste of the individual player. But "maybe ACE isn't for you" is a cop-out. I won't play Arma without it anymore. I want a meaningful medic role. But I don't want the medic role to take up all the time. I feel that with the vanilla settings it is taking up too much space, but then, that's what settings are for.

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I quickly tested the main features and I honestly find the "new" medical system extremely effective. In my opinion we've witnessed at an huge improvement, so thanks a lot for the release and keep up the good work.

The ArmA community is surely grateful of your essential contributions, because after all these years you still make this game(s) enjoyable in the proper, realistic way.

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15 hours ago, Dedmen said:

here's the code.

Guess I'm wrong, it doesn't boost chance, it reduces interval.

I checked that one and it looks like it works like I thought. Based on my setting (previous screenshots in my post), logic will do a check every 7.5 seconds (as epi boost is 2 by me which halfs the 15 seconds) and wake up change for that duration is 20%

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Btw, how to understand if the person is in cardiac arrest state? Does heart rate 0 means he is in cardiac arrest?

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We tried out the rewrite today and I really like it. It sure takes a while to set up, but it'll be worth it for sure.

I guess the frustration of some guys mainly comes from the fact that it can be a bit tricky to tweak the functionality in a way that resembles more "arcade-ish" setups of the old system.

Like, you gotta think a bit around the corner in order to get a classical "revive" system back.

For those who want an aracde-ish revive system that's almost 1:1 like the old medic system:

ace_medical_statemachine_fatalInjuriesPlayer = 2; (Players can never be killed off completely, they remain in cardiac arrest (revive state))

ace_medical_statemachine_cardiacArrestTime = 600; (Cardiac arrest time in seconds, basically becomes your former revive timer)

ace_medical_spontaneousWakeUpEpinephrineBoost = 30; (Pretty much makes sure that using epi will bring someone with stable vitals up)

The only thing we noticed is that there is no way of disabling an instant death due to bleeding out, not even with ace_medical_statemachine_fatalInjuriesPlayer set to 2.

In order to work around this, one could slow down the bleeding coefficient for now.

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I think "ace_medical_statemachine_fatalInjuri﻿esPlayer = 2; (Players can never be killed off completely, they remain in cardiac arrest (revive state))" this one is used not to make instant deads due to fatal injuries like head, torso shots or heavy trauma (multiple injuries). So it is not like being in cardiac arrest eternally. That is my understanding though..

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3 hours ago, laxemann said:

We tried out the rewrite today and I really like it. It sure takes a while to set up, but it'll be worth it for sure.

I guess the frustration of some guys mainly comes from the fact that it can be a bit tricky to tweak the functionality in a way that resembles more "arcade-ish" setups of the old system.

Like, you gotta think a bit around the corner in order to get a classical "revive" system back.

For those who want an aracde-ish revive system that's almost 1:1 like the old medic system:

ace_medical_statemachine_fatalInjuriesPlayer = 2; (Players can never be killed off completely, they remain in cardiac arrest (revive state))

ace_medical_statemachine_cardiacArrestTime = 600; (Cardiac arrest time in seconds, basically becomes your former revive timer)

ace_medical_spontaneousWakeUpEpinephrineBoost = 30; (Pretty much makes sure that using epi will bring someone with stable vitals up)

The only thing we noticed is that there is no way of disabling an instant death due to bleeding out, not even with ace_medical_statemachine_fatalInjuriesPlayer set to 2.

In order to work around this, one could slow down the bleeding coefficient for now.

I think all of the above responses have been helpful in some way either in agreement, disagreement or frustration, however, like most things in life, with time and some experience gained through trial and error we get to where we are happy/comfortable.

The new system certainly has a new curve (just when he thought he had cracked the arma nuances).....but a good and improved curve for that matter.  Even though I had been accustomed to the BASIC Medical of past versions I am now enjoying a more fine tuned and well designed system.

Sidenote:

I did use the fatalinjuriesPlayer = 2 value and also enabled players to tolerate a slightly tightened value for their pain threshold.  If you combine this with the ability to disable some of the other more advanced features you can almost emulate the previous iterations.

Thanx ACE team as always for delivering a product that only adds to the Armaverse fun!!

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12 hours ago, Alwarren said:

Sure, I am not disputing that, I was just pointing out why someone might prefer the old system. One person's "better" is the other person's "worse".

Yeah fair enough, guess I spend too much time on /r/reddit listening to the kneejerk "OMG EVERYTHING IS BROKEN!!!" type posts.
Even so I'm sure once people spend a decent amount of time with the new system they'll come around to the "correct" way of thinking 😜

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loving the new ace just need to figure out why the epi just doesn't work right, can we have a definitive how-to?

all of the new features are so good, we (my team) would just love if the epi could go back to the way it was when you ran it as "ACE Basic Medical" no complicated settings, just push epi and they wake up.

we have tried all of the settings listed here and got nowhere with it.

I should add that we have been using ace since ArmA 2 and really cant play ArmA without it, we just need to sort it out for the way that works for us, revive wise that is. we don't all want to play with the full-on medical settings but still want the difficulty upped from vanilla, but the current state of the epi makes it hard for our play style

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The Basic medical has been removed right? And is Medical AI able to deal with the current medical system?

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We literally just completed our first mission with the new rewrite. Our group is fortunate enough to have a very sharp person managing the medical settings balance to deliver both realism and fun. He spent three days learning about the various settings and we think we may’ve come pretty close to getting it right.

1st Air Assault is still a small group with only one medic so it’s important our casualty rate doesn’t snowball, but on the other hand we play beyond basic medical settings. I’m more than happy to post our settings if you’d like to see them.

The new rewrite definitely adds some interesting layers to the game, the most notable for me was hits breaking bones.

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On 1/3/2020 at 11:10 PM, Steve 161st said:

Agree with the above.

Default settings were not to our group's liking but it's SOOO customisable, we're starting to home in on something we really like.

The only thing we have seen a lot of is AI not reacting to being shot - if the shots that hit them are not instantly fatal/cause unconsciousness, they are able to continue to shoot what seems to be fairly accurately while taking several rounds. (They start bandaging up once the firefight has finished though.) Players normally twitch/react when being hit so can't continue to return fire while being hit. This seems to give the AI an unfair advantage. I think this is related to the ACE medical but am not 100% sure. I don't remember it being such an issue with the old ACE medical system (but could be wrong) and I've not played Vanilla in a long time but I always remember AI twitching a little when being shot so disturbing their firing somewhat.

I shot an enemy three times in the back (I saw the blood mist) and he even didn't turn around and looked in the wrong direction all the time. But the new medic system is great, one just have to find the right settings. And it seems the AI medics can perform much better and use the advanced stuff too. 👍

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On 1/3/2020 at 9:44 PM, Maff said:

Our group tested settings out on our public server last night, we were very impressed!
That is the best way to learn in my opinion. It's trial and error, brother.

You can also set up a Zeus scenario that sends limited enemies at a time to test the updated medical system.
It's a lot better, and more fun, than shooting each other where you stand. Believe me!

Enjoy.

Sorry but I don't have time to grind and judging by the many "don't understand" and "frurstrated" type posts here, I'm not the only one, even among veterans.

When ACE3 first released their Medical module they provided a video tutorial as well as a mission for medics to familiarise themselves which went a long way to reducing questions.

IMHO America's Army 2 offered the most immersive implementation:

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On 1/6/2020 at 4:41 PM, domokun said:

Sorry but I don't have time to grind and judging by the many "don't understand" and "frurstrated" type posts here, I'm not the only one, even among veterans.

When ACE3 first released their Medical module they provided a video tutorial as well as a mission for medics to familiarise themselves which went a long way to reducing questions.

IMHO America's Army 2 offered the most immersive implementation:

There are some scenarios on the workshop like this one that aims to provide training for would-be ACE3 medics, but there are no new ones that are updated for the new additions. The linked mod author has expressed that he will update the scenario, so our best hope would probably be to wait for it.

It would be great if the ACE team could also link some training scenarios in their upload too, there is only so much that a wiki can do to help familiarise players with the system.

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Quick question about bleedingCoefficient and PainCoeffictient. A higher number means quicker bleeding/more pain right?

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2 hours ago, mcnools said:

Quick question about bleedingCoefficient and PainCoeffictient. A higher number means quicker bleeding/more pain right?

Yes. You'll die faster.

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On 1/5/2020 at 3:47 AM, laxemann said:

We tried out the rewrite today and I really like it. It sure takes a while to set up, but it'll be worth it for sure.

I guess the frustration of some guys mainly comes from the fact that it can be a bit tricky to tweak the functionality in a way that resembles more "arcade-ish" setups of the old system.

Like, you gotta think a bit around the corner in order to get a classical "revive" system back.

For those who want an aracde-ish revive system that's almost 1:1 like the old medic system:

ace_medical_statemachine_fatalInjuriesPlayer = 2; (Players can never be killed off completely, they remain in cardiac arrest (revive state))

ace_medical_statemachine_cardiacArrestTime = 600; (Cardiac arrest time in seconds, basically becomes your former revive timer)

ace_medical_spontaneousWakeUpEpinephrineBoost = 30; (Pretty much makes sure that using epi will bring someone with stable vitals up)

The only thing we noticed is that there is no way of disabling an instant death due to bleeding out, not even with ace_medical_statemachine_fatalInjuriesPlayer set to 2.

In order to work around this, one could slow down the bleeding coefficient for now.

So this setting is to prevent instantly died by direct hit right? Which in my understanding is that any menthod of direct hit even if it is a tank shell would not instantly kill a player but put him in uncon state right? And as the player still will instanly died due to bleeeding out, is that possible to decrease the bleeding speed to a very low level to prevent player died during the mission?