AI Driving - Feedback topic

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Quote

Tweaked: AI path planning and driving for tracked vehicles was refactored (feedback: https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/191515-ai-driving-feedback-topic/) 

 

[Vasily.B 529]

22 minutes ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

this..... so true. 

[R3vo 2654]

Has anyone actually tested the improvements to see whether it improved or not? Would a dev mind sharing some details? For example, was formation behaviour improved?

[lexx 1363]

I just did a ninja-test, to see how the ai reacts to the stone walls. Noticed that they don't go into line formation anymore, but didn't investigated further.

[oukej 2910]

On 10/1/2017 at 12:29 PM, fn_Quiksilver said:

we also need a road network path following offset, so we can have bi-directional traffic. I

Check AIpathOffset in MapXY/Data/Roads/RoadsLib.cfg. It sets the path offset from the edge of the road.
(green lines)

 

[inlesco 233]

8 hours ago, oukej said:

Check AIpathOffset in MapXY/Data/Roads/RoadsLib.cfg. It sets the path offset from the edge of the road.
(green lines)

 

 

that's really nice! I noticed the vehicles facing each other are very close to the road's center. It's still possible to control that offset right? So for instance the Hunter drives more righty and less lefty, possibly in the center of his traffic lane.

[oukej 2910]

Because of the resolution of the path "nodes" the offset is set more towards center to avoid AI cutting corners. Tweaks are definitely possible, offsets have been set up prior to the driving refactoring.

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

Quote

Added: Vehicle commander can now control his vehicle directly by the WASD keys without AI responsibility delay (there should be no difference by driving from driver or commander position, AI crew still needs to be present)  

 

out of..

 

 Does that mean vehicle responds exactly as comm is using driver slot? Weird fix of broken AI if it is like that.

If I stop pressing "W" the vehicle stops?

...

[lex__1 422]

41 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

Does that mean vehicle responds exactly as comm is using driver slot? Weird fix of broken AI if it is like that.

If I stop pressing "W" the vehicle stops?

It looks absolutely as if you are a driver.
In addition, the setting 'hasDriver = -1' allows you to control the car even if there is no AI driver behind the wheel.

[pierremgi 4862]

9 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

It looks absolutely as if you are a driver.
In addition, the setting 'hasDriver = -1' allows you to control the car even if there is no AI driver behind the wheel.

It's a great news!, (making a part of my "one man tank" totally obsolete for the best).

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

18 hours ago, pierremgi said:

It's a great news!, (making a part of my "one man tank" totally obsolete for the best).

 

Well, since I am a simulation fundametalist, I would rather say that BIS wrecked it completely now instead of fixing AI.

 

My expectation when in comm seat:

 

no driver = nothing happens whatever I press, hasDriver=-1 should be only applicable for vehicles with real remote control capabilities

 

W/S = with a short delay the vehicle moves in that direction with the last set speed, AI logic intervenes when obstacle is in path

unknown keys = I need keeys to set and recall default speed and 2 more to increase/decrease by 1km/h

A/D = while pressing the steering moves with a moderat turning rate, not as rapid as currently, AI logic intervenes when obstacle is in path

 

[f2k sel 164]

I've had a quick look and now I'm confused, tank M4 Scorcher worked ok with me as commander and so did the Hunter CMG but when commanding the Prowler nothing happens.

I tried commander gunner and driver and only being driver works.

I also made my self leader but still won't move using the direction keys, it only moves if I select a waypoint or issue a move from menus.

 

On aside note we really need a way to have the AI driver resume waypoint paths not just the next waypoint but the full path.

[Vasily.B 529]

For me commander as driver rolle is a bit... its not fitting to simulator. Even in real tank simulators we can hear orders of movements, maybe solution from "steel armor" would be better ("15 left, "21 right" - dependable from period of direction key holding)"?

[pierremgi 4862]

4 minutes ago, Vasily.B said:

For me commander as driver rolle is a bit... its not fitting to simulator. Even in real tank simulators we can hear orders of movements, maybe solution from "steel armor" would be better ("15 left, "21 right" - dependable from period of direction key holding)"?

The problem is to fit a "poor" simulation for a player, not a team in a million dollar simulator. The "one man tank", or driver role is an outstanding option for single player and doesn't need repetitive and boring simulated orders for dumb Ai on radio. (That's the first thing I had on mind for my own script!)

Just to say that radio order should be an option.

[Vasily.B 529]

51 minutes ago, pierremgi said:

The problem is to fit a "poor" simulation for a player, not a team in a million dollar simulator. The "one man tank", or driver role is an outstanding option for single player and doesn't need repetitive and boring simulated orders for dumb Ai on radio. (That's the first thing I had on mind for my own script!)

Just to say that radio order should be an option.

Agree, option is the best option ;)

[R3vo 2654]

Sorry to say that, but after several hours of testing I can't really see much of an improvement. The serious issues are still all present (AI getting stuck, driving back and forth trying to unstuck the vehicle...etc). Also formation driving seems to behave the same.

Last but not least, tracked vehicles still often sway of the road because of invisible obstacles.

 

Would be great if a dev could clarify what exactly was tweaked so we can compare those areas directly with stable.

[dragon01 902]

On 10/12/2017 at 6:10 PM, Vasily.B said:

For me commander as driver rolle is a bit... its not fitting to simulator. Even in real tank simulators we can hear orders of movements, maybe solution from "steel armor" would be better ("15 left, "21 right" - dependable from period of direction key holding)"?

I think that radio commands should be expanded a bit. For example, "go in the direction I'm looking", "follow the current road", "face the current target". Driver is there exactly so that 

 

I do think that commander taking over the driver completely could work, but it should be kept to DLC tanks by default (except maybe the AAF one, depending on what they get). Armata, for example, houses everyone in the hull and uses a lot of digital equipment, which means that emergency driving controls could be fitted to all three stations (though I don't know if the current design does that).

[FirstPanic 39]

On 13.10.2017 at 1:54 PM, R3vo said:

Sorry to say that, but after several hours of testing I can't really see much of an improvement. The serious issues are still all present (AI getting stuck, driving back and forth trying to unstuck the vehicle...etc). Also formation driving seems to behave the same.

Last but not least, tracked vehicles still often sway of the road because of invisible obstacles.

 

Would be great if a dev could clarify what exactly was tweaked so we can compare those areas directly with stable.

 

On top... the AI can still not drive on bridges on Tanoa... and this is the situation since month. 

However... I decided to not longer waste my time with Arma 3 mission development. The devs killed my missions, community content and the gameplay too many times.

Hope this will be better with A4.

 

FirstPanic

[kremator 1065]

@FirstPanic Don't hold your breath for Arma4 being better.

 

Glad to see the 'one man tank' finally.  See?  You only have to shout for YEARS to get things to happen!

[Vasily.B 529]

OK, i change my mind - i tested it a bit, and commander/driver role is great improvement in terms of gameplay. I was just meaning its not too much realistic, but realistic and playable are 2 diferent things. As there are too much problems with AI and too few people to work with those problems, this seems to be good solution. Problems that @R3vo have listed are still present, but as i stated before we cant count for fix anytime soon.

[FirstPanic 39]

On 26.10.2017 at 6:55 PM, Vasily.B said:

OK, i change my mind - i tested it a bit, and commander/driver role is great improvement in terms of gameplay. I was just meaning its not too much realistic, but realistic and playable are 2 diferent things. As there are too much problems with AI and too few people to work with those problems, this seems to be good solution. Problems that @R3vo have listed are still present, but as i stated before we cant count for fix anytime soon.

Did you also check AI behaviour at bridges?

Would be great to see that AI can drive on bridge.... the "improvement" of not driving on a bridge came with an update about 9 month ago and still fu**s every mission.

 

FirstPanic

[Vasily.B 529]

4 hours ago, FirstPanic said:

Did you also check AI behaviour at bridges?

Would be great to see that AI can drive on bridge.... the "improvement" of not driving on a bridge came with an update about 9 month ago and still fu**s every mission.

 

FirstPanic

Old problems are still present. Writing "improvement" i was meaning overall reaction time in controlling tank. I just saw sometimes stopping the tank is very hard, but mostly on modded content, and this is not yed updated to dev branch standards.

[2nd ranger 282]

This is one of the biggest problems I see with driving AI; they are terrible at passing vehicles on the road in front of them. Here, two AI vehicles have waypoints to drive down the road. A static technical is in their path. They manage to pass him once, but then...

 

 

It highlights another glaring issue, which is that vehicles blow up way too easily. You don't hear of too many minor traffic accidents ending in explosions.

[Strike_NOR 898]

2 hours ago, 2nd ranger said:

This is one of the biggest problems I see with driving AI; they are terrible at passing vehicles on the road in front of them. Here, two AI vehicles have waypoints to drive down the road. A static technical is in their path. They manage to pass him once, but then...

It highlights another glaring issue, which is that vehicles blow up way too easily. You don't hear of too many minor traffic accidents ending in explosions.

 

This, coupled with the weird physics (no momentum transferred to the static technical) makes the situation so goofy!

 

I can see numerous improvement areas from just this video:

 

1. Fix collision avoidance. If Tesla can do it with real cars with cameras, so can you with an "all-knowing" game engine :). Slam brakes, steer away from object, recover when object is out of harms way.
2. Fix collision physics (transfer of momentum). Both cars should have a "net" momentum, travelling together at a new speed which is lower than the speed of the crashing vehicles initial movement.
3. Fix damage model. Just make it so that the fuel tank has to be critical before "unarmed" vehicles explode. This goes for "all" light vehicles. Technically they should not explode from fuel tank damage, but rather catch fire. Would be a nice addition with Tanks DLC.

I get that explosions are fantastic for gameplay reasons (feedback to attacker that his target is definitely dead). This, however, is not how war is. Only high explosive ammunition of large size can obliterate vehicles. Either because it was fired onto the vehicle, or because the vehicle contained them (ammunition on board). A fuel tank can explode with a low pressure force if they are near empty due to the fumes. If a full fuel-tank gets hit, most likely you get a leak. At best you get a fire, and if that vehicle contains explosive yummies, of course it may explode. Man it would be beautiful to have a script that searched the vehicle inventory, looked for ammo and then randomly detonated that if the vehicle caught fire.

[lex__1 422]

3 hours ago, 2nd ranger said:

This is one of the biggest problems I see with driving AI; they are terrible at passing vehicles on the road in front of them. Here, two AI vehicles have waypoints to drive down the road. A static technical is in their path. They manage to pass him once, but then...

 

 

It highlights another glaring issue, which is that vehicles blow up way too easily. You don't hear of too many minor traffic accidents ending in explosions.

This driving of AI, and such receiving damages of cars (even at a low speed) kill immersion in a game. My favourite scenario of a game - CTI suffers from lack of correction of behavior of AI and the nature of receiving damages of wheels.