AI Driving - Feedback topic

[joostsidy 685]

57 minutes ago, .kju said:

6 year old requests/reports

It's a damn shame!

 

[Alwarren 2767]

On 7/29/2017 at 0:11 PM, joostsidy said:

- Convoys need to be set on 'CARELESS'.

 

So I tried that with the mission I had problems with. It worked for two or three encounters. After the fourth, one truck and one of the MRAPs supporting the convoy went back all the way to the beginning again, in spite of the convoy being in CARELESS mode.

 

I am currently investigating whether that is because of ASR AI, but I don't think it messes with the combat mode of waypoints. I'll post when I know more, but it seems like careless is not the universal cure for this issue :(

[joostsidy 685]

8 minutes ago, Alwarren said:

 

So I tried that with the mission I had problems with. It worked for two or three encounters. After the fourth, one truck and one of the MRAPs supporting the convoy went back all the way to the beginning again, in spite of the convoy being in CARELESS mode.

 

I am currently investigating whether that is because of ASR AI, but I don't think it messes with the combat mode of waypoints. I'll post when I know more, but it seems like careless is not the universal cure for this issue :(

Unfortunately I agree.

 

This weekend I spent in total about 5 hours on convoys. The best result I got was with:

- behaviour AWARE (armored vehicle crews turn in)

- combatmode GREEN (defensive firing, keep formation)

- disable AutoCombat (keep vehicles on road, prevents switching to COMBAT)

- limitSpeed (prevent high speed crashes)

- setConvoyDistance (optional)

 

In some runs they get it right and a moving mixed convoy with vehicles firing left and right look very cool.

 

Unfortunately it still breaks sometimes, because vehicle commanders override the settings and make vehicles stop, go off-road or return to the starting point sometimes. This vehicle commander behaviour might be deep AI and hard to fix :-(

 

If devs would create convoys according to this recipe and fix the errors than you have the ingredients for an awesome Convoy module.

 

 

 

[Greenfist 1863]

57 minutes ago, Alwarren said:

I am currently investigating whether that is because of ASR AI, but I don't think it messes with the combat mode of waypoints. I'll post when I know more, but it seems like careless is not the universal cure for this issue :(

Are you seriously giving feedback about AI with an AI mod enabled?

 

It might not have any effect on it, but then again, you must know how fickle Arma can be. I mean I once had a problem with AI not following my orders, and it turned out they didn't when the game sound was disabled.

[lexx 1363]

Of course, because how will they hear you with game sound disabled and no hand signals! :D

:>

[Alwarren 2767]

2 hours ago, Greenfist said:

Are you seriously giving feedback about AI with an AI mod enabled?

 

No. None of my tests had any AI mod enabled. I am just saying that I tried the convoy in a mission and it reverted back to the origin point, nothing more nothing less, and that I am investigating what causes it.

 

To make this absolutely clear, I am not an idiot. All my tests and repros do not use any mods at all, not even content mods. They are purely vanilla. What I wrote above was under "dirty" conditions, I am just saying it so that this LONG STANDING bug gets more exposure and will perhaps be finally fixed.

 

EDIT: I realized this came out harsher than intended. My point is, yeah I know how fickle Arma is, therefore I will always test problems with vanilla first. I just wish there wasn't so much scientific research needed to make an Arma mission :|

[Vasily.B 529]

Excuse me but:

Why all tracked vehicles (vanilla too) are so much drriftin on all surfaces?

[R0adki11 3949]

14 minutes ago, Vasily.B said:

Why all tracked vehicles (vanilla too) are so much drifting on all surfaces?

But if a tank was going quite fast, i doubt it would stop straight dead.

[Vasily.B 529]

4 minutes ago, R0adki11 said:

But if a tank was going quite fast, i doubt it would stop straight dead.

So why if you are driver vehicle stops almost instantly? Watch newest tank biathlon and chinese tank - it stp almost instantly and it have bigger mas than all T-tanks. Its clearly issue with AI. If you still dont believe watch the tank tracks while braking - no grip at all.

 

[R0adki11 3949]

1 minute ago, Vasily.B said:

So why if you are driver vehicle stops almost instantly? Watch newest tank biathlon and chinese tank - it stp almost instantly and it have bigger mas than all T-tanks. Its clearly issue with AI

 

Well it maybe an issue with the AI. But its not really a mission breaking issue is it.

[Vasily.B 529]

Its is - its the reason why all tracked vehicles is ramming infantry, and dying beacuse they cannot stop behind some cover and then they facing back to enemy. You may notice, there is no issue with wheeled vehicles.

[road runner 4344]

3 minutes ago, Vasily.B said:

You may notice, there is no issue with wheeled vehicles

Unfortunately there is the same problem with ALL vehicles, wheeled and tracked, compounded with the fact the AI are fucking dumb and unable to get out of the way of a vehicle, but are able to spot you and rain hell on you and can decide when their close enough to throw frags in your direction.

Unless BIS get specific AI coders in to fix this, the AI is never going to to be jaw dropping awesome.

[Vasily.B 529]

1 minute ago, road runner said:

Unfortunately there is the same problem with ALL vehicles, wheeled and tracked, compounded with the fact the AI are fucking dumb and unable to get out of the way of a vehicle, but are able to spot you and rain hell on you and can decide when their close enough to throw frags in your direction.

Unless BIS get specific AI coders in to fix this, the AI is never going to to be jaw dropping awesome.

I hope Tanks DLC will get some changes in that matter.

[road runner 4344]

Just now, Vasily.B said:

I hope Tanks DLC will get some changes in that matter.

I'd like to think so too, however I'm more inclined to believe that the Tanks DLC is just going to be a cosmetic eye candy download, with interiors.

I stopped giving AI drivers multiple way points, it was too overwhelming for them. I stopped using vehicles altogether, as it's too frustrating having a 60 + tonne tank get tossed like a pancake after running over a rock.

I've given up hope that the AI, either on foot, in a vehicle, or in the air can actually stop being motards, and apply some sort of logic, it's not happening so I've been playing a lot of zombies and demons as their intelligence is to be expected!!

[Vasily.B 529]

52 minutes ago, road runner said:

I'd like to think so too, however I'm more inclined to believe that the Tanks DLC is just going to be a cosmetic eye candy download, with interiors.

I stopped giving AI drivers multiple way points, it was too overwhelming for them. I stopped using vehicles altogether, as it's too frustrating having a 60 + tonne tank get tossed like a pancake after running over a rock.

I've given up hope that the AI, either on foot, in a vehicle, or in the air can actually stop being motards, and apply some sort of logic, it's not happening so I've been playing a lot of zombies and demons as their intelligence is to be expected!!

Yeah, but you know, if i would like to play some military game with ai as infantry only i would choose ghost recon, i choosed arma beacuse all previous arma had vehicles and this bugs was.... little less frustrating. For now, fixing brakes for vehicles will give them some more chances to stop before driving on friendly, and more stable formation keeping. 

[krycek 349]

5 hours ago, road runner said:

I'd like to think so too, however I'm more inclined to believe that the Tanks DLC is just going to be a cosmetic eye candy download, with interiors.

I stopped giving AI drivers multiple way points, it was too overwhelming for them. I stopped using vehicles altogether, as it's too frustrating having a 60 + tonne tank get tossed like a pancake after running over a rock.

 

One of the reasons I use Zeus in every mission I have with vehicles(basically all of them). Considering the issue with cardboard tanks is still in 4 years after release this looks more and more like a new kind of early access, a special BI one where 4 years later the game still has half completed,barely functional or abandoned systems.

It seems like all their attention went to infantry AI and last year they took some steps with AI driving only to break it later and they only concentrated on the roads part.

 

Meanwhile tanks and other vehicles are still stuck in trees without a simple logic "Well I'll be damned a tough tree. What should I do? Hmm maybe the forgotten,forbidden dark arts method of vehicle backing should be applied".

I even saw some weird-ass borg assimilation stuff where 2 tanks\ifv are joining together to squeeze on a street. Or God knows how they manage to launch themselves into orbit or go belly up  if I'm not babysitting them with Zeus. At least at this part the crew is smart enough to get in once I put them back on their wheels\tracks.

Or that I have to use a mod not to have friendlies run over by allied vehicles. A bug that if I would reinstall OFP now you could see it there and I would like to ask contact details for Doctor Who to ask him if they fixed it 30 years later.

[kremator 1065]

It always makies me laugh (then cry) when tanks or any other vehicle is launched up into the air.  This simple shit needs to be fixed.

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

 

Quote

 

A big problem seems to be that the commanders of the convoy vehicles override the leader of the convoy. When they have difficulty with a target they start issuing movement commands of their own. Is there a way to prevent this? Vehicles do need a commander to move at all in the convoy.

 

I had partial succes with the convoy in CARELESS and an ungrouped gunner of the marshall in AWARE. This way the gunner can turn in and engage targets with the main gun. The commander will stay turned out like a WW 2 tank commander :-)

I had partial succes with disabling 'AUTOCOMBAT' on all units. With this approach the convoy stays on the road in AWARE and making it possible for the Marshall crew to be properly grouped, turned in and use the main gun.

 

However, screwups still occur. They just won't keep on driving on the road at all times when the convoy includes multiple armed vehicles and under medium/heavy threat.

 

 

 

 

Gentlemen, you thinking to much inside the "BIS" boundaries.

When I drive a column of vehicles and you want to simulate somehow realistic behavior, the current set of parameter do not really match.

"CARELESS" to make vehicles to use road? Totally wrong. Extra parameter set required to enforce something like "stick to the road" or "drive crazy ivan" or "full speed".

I want to have formation setting working independant from alert/behavior level.

If to many conditions are required to compute the final resulting behavior BIS should help with a kind of rule base editor where you can visualize and hence predict the result of your settings.

If a mission maker requires for his convoy "drive like crazy to the target by using roads" (e.g. a convoy of escaping troops) it should be doable regardles if they are at CARELESS or COMBAT.

Everything else is just...BIS.

[joostsidy 685]

3 hours ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

 

Gentlemen, you thinking to much inside the "BIS" boundaries.

When I drive a column of vehicles and you want to simulate somehow realistic behavior, the current set of parameter do not really match.

"CARELESS" to make vehicles to use road? Totally wrong. Extra parameter set required to enforce something like "stick to the road" or "drive crazy ivan" or "full speed".

 

There are a lot of posts here lately, so you probably missed this: there is a command forceFollowRoad which would be great if its works, but it is totally broken.

 

In my post you quoted I just described the closest practical solution possible at this time.

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

On 2.8.2017 at 7:42 PM, joostsidy said:

There are a lot of posts here lately, so you probably missed this: there is a command forceFollowRoad which would be great if its works, but it is totally broken.

 

In my post you quoted I just described the closest practical solution possible at this time.

 

Indeed I missed "forceFollowRoad" and I knew your WA as ONLY solution so far :-)

But as I said, to get a more realistic behavior, more complex scripting is necessary to combine the parameters. Like "stick to the road except this, this or this happens....".

In the end one mission maker wants to get a convoy pushing through regardless the losses while another wants to script a patrol that returns after 1st contact.

And all that with proper path selection. At the moment it does not work at all while I consider this as very possible in 2017.

[f2k sel 164]

If you can get vehicle from A to B without issues then you at least have something to build upon, adding more complex stuff to something that's broken can't make it better.

[Vasily.B 529]

On 8.08.2017 at 1:11 PM, f2k sel said:

If you can get vehicle from A to B without issues then you at least have something to build upon, adding more complex stuff to something that's broken can't make it better.

Cant deny this, new DLC will only light up this issues.

[nomisum 129]

Is there a way to determine if a vehicle has reached the end (or any other point) of its

setDriveOnPath

Array?

 

I dont want to use triggers and things like currentCommand dont work.

[pierremgi 4862]

2 hours ago, nomisum said:

Is there a way to determine if a vehicle has reached the end (or any other point) of its

setDriveOnPath

Array?

 

I dont want to use triggers and things like currentCommand dont work.

 

This command works with an array of points. I suppose you know how this array _array is built.

So, just check a condition like something :

waitUntil {sleep 1;  getpos myVehicle distance (_array select nbr) < 30};

where nbr is the significant index for you

[lex__1 422]

On 01.08.2017 at 2:43 PM, R0adki11 said:

Well it maybe an issue with the AI. But its not really a mission breaking issue is it.

In the good old OFP, AI did not twist bends on 50-meter circles. AI stopped and returned to their place in the battle formation, in reverse. Or, if they did not run far ahead (several meters), they stood and waited. This worked very synchronously. I apologize for the expression, but now AI is put in the ass where there is no need to do this. The fighting system is becoming a mess. For this reason, I can not use any system of several combat vehicles in Arma3. I do not want to look at this mess.

But where this is not appropriate, tanks quickly stop

On 01.08.2017 at 2:45 PM, Vasily.B said:

Its is - its the reason why all tracked vehicles is ramming infantry, and dying beacuse they cannot stop behind some cover and then they facing back to enemy. You may notice, there is no issue with wheeled vehicles.

In Arma3, tanks have no track vehicles. For this reason, they do not do their job - like caterpillar track. This ribbon, on the wheels of the tank, penetrates into the textures, and is not occupied in anything, except for the aesthetic look.

BIS! I still believe that you will do it and correct it.

Sometimes other words on the tongue climb, but that's because it's impossible to get used to how it works in Arma3.))) These problems kill the immersion in the game.