Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[Brisse 78]

I just want to point out that the effect of resting and deploying is still being tweaked on dev-branch. What we have in stable right now is not quite finished yet.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I just want to point out that the effect of resting and deploying is still being tweaked on dev-branch. What we have in stable right now is not quite finished yet.

The data from my last post was done on the dev branch. We'll see what happens in the future, but currently, the configs do not have a special case for the deployment-without-bipods. This means that no matter what value changes are made as it's currently setup, deployment without bipods will always be equivalent to resting.

[Jackal326 1181]

Some data straight from the config:

// Weapon deployment values
deployedCoef = 0.2; // Sway multiplier?
deployedProneCoef = 0.04; // Sway multiplier in prone?
deployedRecoil = 0.4; // Temporary recoil multiplier
deployedRecoilPersistent = 0.5; // Persistent recoil multiplier

// Weapon deployment times
deployTime = 0.2; // Time it takes to deploy without a bipod
undeployTime = 0.2; // Time it takes to undeploy without a bipod
deployBipodTime = 0.4; // Time it takes to deploy with a bipod
undeployBipodTime = 0.3; // Time it takes to undeploy with a bipod

// Weapon resting values
restingCoef = 0.6; // Sway multiplier
restingProneCoef = 0.12; // Sway multiplier in prone?
restingRecoil = 0.6; // Temporary recoil multiplier
restingRecoilPersistent = 1; // Permanent recoil multiplier

Deducing from this data and some experiments, I've come to a few conclusions in regards to deployment without bipods:

• Deployment without bipods, compared to resting, gives absolutely no benefits, in all cases, other than creating a pivot point.
  
• If you are deployed, you are also rested and that's where benefits come from.
  
• The only time deployment without bipods is useful is if you need to aim at something that is out of reach when not deployed. (Hard sideways/downward angle out of a window or a wall)
  
• Deployment locks your camera to the weapon (like a 2D scope), so when you experience recoil or inertia, it might be a bit more disorienting, but is generally not noticeable. I only noticed the effect when I was compositing the images.
  
• As it currently stands, this means that deploying without bipods in prone is actually a negative effect on your abilities as all it does is sink your point of aim and limits rotation angles
  

And some composite images in regards to weapon sway. Tests with recoil and inertia were also done and yielded the same conslusion, but I could not be bothered to align additional 2*3*30 images together.

http://i.imgur.com/kXDqdxNm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/gaNu8JAm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/xibzh7om.png

Exactly.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Jackal326

[Healbeam 10]

That... actually makes a lot of sense. So deployment without bipods is just resting, but limits the shooting angles so that you can be certain that you have the reduced sway and recoil? That is really useful, it should definitely remain in the game, in spite of being a little superfluous.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

That... actually makes a lot of sense. So deployment without bipods is just resting, but limits the shooting angles so that you can be certain that you have the reduced sway and recoil? That is really useful, it should definitely remain in the game, in spite of being a little superfluous.

In practice, deployment-without-bipods is not as useful as you might imagine. First reason is that resting is provided very generously. If you're aiming out of a window, door, anything, you won't lose resting benefits so easy. As long as you have any kind of geometry next to you, you're stable. For example, these are positions that are considered as rested:

As you can see, you have a huge wiggle room so staying within the bounds of resting is not hard to the point you need to restrict yourself manually.

Second reason is when you really want to shoot someone, if they're out of the angle range of the deployment, you'll most certainly un-deploy to do so anyway.

[twisted 128]

I really like what bis have done in many respects. great job.

BUT a fundamental problem i am having with deploying is that i seems to want you to have about a 90 degree angle to the surface and will actually reposition you do achieve this. This of course is bad if the thing you are aiming at isnt in the angle that the current system will allow you to be in.

solution, allow the bipod to sit at angles that respect the direction you are facing more, or allow bipods to turn a bit of a greater angle, etc. of course that's easy to say, but i feel the usability is really needed to making deploying more useful iff enemies inconsiderately place themselves at stange angles to your position.

[roberthammer 582]

I have noticed that the resting works even when only your muzzle is near the wall , it would been better if the whole weapon was close to the wall and actually resting on it

and deployment without a bipod - needs own animation set ,because atm it looks that he's pretending having a bipod aka invisible bipod pose

[cholo 11]

+ in order to rest/deploy your weapon you need to have it touching the surface while the current resting/deploying is just a showoff and i believe in future updates BIS DEVs will improve it much more and we might see correct resting animations and positions , in other thing i like the bipods but it also need more love especially in matters of stabilizing

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

Think it maybe would have been better to drop the Prone weapons resting using " invisible bi pod".

Even if just till after dlc and added later, when they had a proper animation. Instead of on release having a tacky half done effort. in my opinion it degraded overall quality of marksman dlc.

[paecmaker 23]

The bipods in stable branch, I have a glitch that when you shoot the weapon slightly move to the side, is it something all have? Its highly annoying when using MGs.

[R3vo 2654]

The bipods in stable branch, I have a glitch that when you shoot the weapon slightly move to the side, is it something all have? Its highly annoying when using MGs.

It's an issue everyone has.

[Electricleash 133]

One major advantage of deploying when you don't have a bipod comes when firing from a window. It allows you to get much closer to the wall/window geometry than you would un-deployed and 'resting', thus it allows a better peripheral view of outside that we didn't have previously.

[rübe 127]

One major advantage of deploying when you don't have a bipod comes when firing from a window.

Yeah, this totally kicks ass. IMHO the AI should also be able to do so, and: such positions probably should be additionally marked (on some path/lod), similar to building-positions, such that we may script and command units to go there and take such a position. :cool:

[oldy41 61]

Imho weapons should not become tilted to the side when deploying on tilted surfaces. This feels rather ridiculous and breaks immmersion.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Imho weapons should not become tilted to the side when deploying on tilted surfaces. This feels rather ridiculous and breaks immmersion.

So your saying if i take an Ar-15, put Bipods on in, lay prone on the side of a hill, and reset it, it's not going to be slanted? I mean you can say it feels ridicule and breaks immersion... but that's how it is in real life... So it isn't breaking immersion... However, there is still that "adjustable Bipods" thing that is yet to be seen.

[R3vo 2654]

So your saying if i take an Ar-15, put Bipods on in, lay prone on the side of a hill, and reset it, it's not going to be slanted? I mean you can say it feels ridicule and breaks immersion... but that's how it is in real life... So it isn't breaking immersion... However, there is still that "adjustable Bipods" thing that is yet to be seen.

I'm still wondering, whether there will be a keybind to adjust them or if it's done by the engine automatically.

[bad benson 1733]

So your saying if i take an Ar-15, put Bipods on in, lay prone on the side of a hill, and reset it, it's not going to be slanted? I mean you can say it feels ridicule and breaks immersion... but that's how it is in real life... So it isn't breaking immersion... However, there is still that "adjustable Bipods" thing that is yet to be seen.

typical false realism logic. in real life terrain is not shaped like in a game. hills are not smooth like roads. i toally agree on this point made my oldy41 as i posted before. there needs to be some smoothing. it's quite ridiculous otherwise. it would be great if the rotation axis would be mostly aligned with the world Y axis. and then the side of the hill, if you turn into it, should just stop the rotation. could be hard to do though. this wouldn't be such a problem if there were more small rocks and stuff. or you could rest on backpacks like in every resting mod :rolleyes:

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

typical false realism logic. in real life terrain is not shaped like in a game. hills are not smooth like roads. i toally agree on this point made my oldy41 as i posted before. there needs to be some smoothing. it's quite ridiculous otherwise. it would be great if the rotation axis would be mostly aligned with the world Y axis. and then the side of the hill, if you turn into it, should just stop the rotation. could be hard to do though. this wouldn't be such a problem if there were more small rocks and stuff. or you could rest on backpacks like in every resting mod :rolleyes:

Weather the hill is smooth or flat, it doesn't matter. If your trying to rest on a slope, your bound to limitations of resting on a slope. However, resting on the top of the hill is a different story. If i had no other choice, i'd use the side of the hill, and it then comes back down to adjustable bipods, which, as R3vo is asking, weather it's an Engine feature or not, my best guess would be automated. There's no key binds for it.

[CaptainObvious 95]

Most bipods have swivels so the gun can stay upright even if the ground isn't perfectly level, and adjusting legs offer even greater versatility, there's no excuse for a tilting weapon.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

BIS, how do we Adjustable #Bipods?

[oldy41 61]

Most bipods have swivels so the gun can stay upright even if the ground isn't perfectly level, and adjusting legs offer even greater versatility, there's no excuse for a tilting weapon.

Exactly.

[fareast 20]

found this in the wiki what is this?

The #bipods may have even adjustable length of legs according to actual position

Animation source bipod_legs_length is used for that as it returns distance between bipod point and surface in meters (means that 5 centimeters are 0.05 value of the source)

Configuration is the same in case of inbuilt #bipods, the only difference is in animation source - it is bipod_length

{model.cfg}

class Leg_L_move /// we use different animation for each leg as they are folded by default and rotate while unfolding, this one is for the left one

{

type = translation;

source = bipod_legs_length;

selection = "Leg_L";

axis = "Leg_L_axis"; /// the axis is part of "bipod_legs" selection in model

memory = 1;

minValue = 0;

maxValue = 0.1; /// this #bipod extends up to 10 centimeters for example

offset0 = 0;

offset1 = 1; /// we use axis with length of 10 centimeters, that means translation needs to be multiplied by ten

};

[bad benson 1733]

Weather the hill is smooth or flat, it doesn't matter.

of course it does. which was my whole point. here's a little paint art work ;) to illustrate what i mean.

http://i.cubeupload.com/E9yGWt.jpg

[da12thMonkey 1943]

BIS, how do we Adjustable #Bipods?

As FarEast pointed out it's automated - the legs extend to fill the distance between the bipod memory point that the unit rotates around, and the surface upon which the bipod is deployed. In many cases the heigh difference is negligible so you don't notice the legs extending.

It's not something where you can manually adjust bipod height.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

As FarEast pointed out it's automated - the legs extend to fill the distance between the bipod memory point that the unit rotates around, and the surface upon which the bipod is deployed. In many cases the heigh difference is negligible so you don't notice the legs extending.

It's not something where you can manually adjust bipod height.

Alright, awesome. Thanks for clearing that up for me. =D