Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback

[dragon01 902]

No. There is no way how to configure changes of rotor axis angle in advanced flight model.

My suggestion is, make a jet VTOL. :) Then you won't have to worry about that, at least. There's a Boeing concept that involves PETA thrusters (think scaled down pulsejet form a V1) for vertical propulsion and likely some kind of turbofan for horizontal movement. That'd look like it'd fit right in for ArmA. Crysis-style tiltjet is another option. I've been building VTOLs in (highly modded) Kerbal Space Program lately, jet VTOLs are definitely possible. :)

[R. Brown 10]

I think that he is talking more about the non future users

[gippo 38]

Hey guys,

Help me out here... how can I change these settings on a dedicated server?

ShowGauges

roughLanding

stressDamage

windEnabled

autoTrimEnabled

We even tried RTDFullHud, RTDroughlanding, etc. , but no luck

[dragon01 902]

I think that he is talking more about the non future users

I'm afraid Osprey mods are out of luck on this one. MV-22's rotors are something between propellers and helo rotors, perhaps improved fixed wing FDM will be able to allow making the Osprey more realistic. Since we're talking mods, I think that given the right tools, the modders will manage to make it fly well.

[nerdwing 13]

How are you guys handling engine failure for now in a heli? My descent rate plummets to -20 meters a second even if I bottom the collective immediately and trade what speed I can. When I impact (even if it looks... ok-ish" in the Blackfoot or Ghosthawk, I always roll over to the left and the helo gets destroyed :(

Anyone able to routinely autororate in these two helo's and has any advice?

[Anachoretes 10]

How are you guys handling engine failure for now in a heli? My descent rate plummets to -20 meters a second even if I bottom the collective immediately and trade what speed I can. When I impact (even if it looks... ok-ish" in the Blackfoot or Ghosthawk, I always roll over to the left and the helo gets destroyed :(

Anyone able to routinely autororate in these two helo's and has any advice?

1. You need to find the best activation time.(Start from the 100kmh and slowly search for altitude)

2. At this time you need to centering the helo - just leave the longitudinal force alone.

3. After the trigger "Failure" you need to start fighting with a speed by moving stick to your stomach. But don't push to much or you just roll over. Or you will loose speed too early.

4. Use pedals to save direction.

5. Lands as a skier.

P.S. Arma have a big issue with collision helicopter damage - they explode almost....always. So this landing tutorial is not realistic, just stupidly hard. So, you need to make this again and again.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Anachoretes

[nerdwing 13]

Thanks! That seems to work fine for any horizontal autorotation, but I was told that vertical (or from a hover) autorotation is simply not supported in the current Rotorlib version. Is anyone able to confirm that? You just piummet entirely, and your engine blades slow to a halt.

http://www.copters.com/pilot/hover_auto.html

It certainly seems doable in reality. So hopefully its something I'm not quite understanding, or will be implemented in a future Rotorlib update.

EDIT: Just ran a dozen tests ingame. Due to the current absolute loss of lift and any stored engine energy when the engine is disabled/damaged, a drop from as low as 15 to 20 meters in the Blackfoot from a hover or near-hover causes a roll-over situation that immediately destroys the helicopter.

You're forced to touch down way too hard, and sort of "bounce" up and flip onto your side, destroying the chopper and killing the passengers. This is from a hover, keep in mind. I've attempted with brakes enabled or disabled with little-to-no difference in results.

The helicopter survives the impact most of the time from such a height, but the seemingly inevitable ensuing rollover will kill all aboard and destroy the helicopter with 100% certainty.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Nerdwing

[vicx 10]

You're forced to touch down way too hard, and sort of "bounce" up and flip onto your side, destroying the chopper and killing the passengers. This is from a hover, keep in mind. I've attempted with brakes enabled or disabled with little-to-no difference in results.

The helicopter survives the impact most of the time from such a height, but the seemingly inevitable ensuing rollover will kill all aboard and destroy the helicopter with 100% certainty.

I posted about this a way back in this thread. I don't know for sure but I think as soon as you hit the ground in some choppers your yaw control is converted from just controlling the rudder to controlling the rudder AND doing some wheel-brake steering.

Even if you don't have wheel brakes ON; individual wheels might be braking. This is the only theory I could come up with that could explain the dynamics of the Kajman when I was trying to taxi it backwards. I was holding back cyclic and yawing right and instead of taxing back and to the right the helicopter was rolling back and to the left. WHY?

So imagine if there is a wheel braking system in the game that is meant to help people taxi - it might not be a good idea to also bind that to the yaw control. If you come into land and still have some last minute yaw keyed in - during a tough landing; as soon as hit you hit the ground one of your wheel breaks might be on and your chance to flip goes way up.

A free wheeling system for the helis with wheels (that only uses steering when you choose to engage steering) might be a better way to let you land a bit off and enjoy some self-stablising without rolling over. Then you can engage the steering control when you are ready, and engage full wheel brakes when you are ready.

Edited November 5, 2014 by vicx
clarity

[jgaz-uk 132]

Some nice stuff with this last DLC liking it! found extras in the Editor not even mentioned.

Have a question; Is it possible to detach the pod from a Taru then pick up a new one. (other than with the slings) like the loadmaster has the option? with a key combo.

=====================================================================================================================================

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------

Thanks! That seems to work fine for any horizontal autorotation, but I was told that vertical (or from a hover) autorotation is simply not supported in the current Rotorlib version. Is anyone able to confirm that? You just piummet entirely, and your engine blades slow to a halt.

http://www.copters.com/pilot/hover_auto.html

It certainly seems doable in reality. So hopefully its something I'm not quite understanding, or will be implemented in a future Rotorlib update.

EDIT: Just ran a dozen tests ingame. Due to the current absolute loss of lift and any stored engine energy when the engine is disabled/damaged, a drop from as low as 15 to 20 meters in the Blackfoot from a hover or near-hover causes a roll-over situation that immediately destroys the helicopter.

You're forced to touch down way too hard, and sort of "bounce" up and flip onto your side, destroying the chopper and killing the passengers. This is from a hover, keep in mind. I've attempted with brakes enabled or disabled with little-to-no difference in results.

The helicopter survives the impact most of the time from such a height, but the seemingly inevitable ensuing rollover will kill all aboard and destroy the helicopter with 100% certainty.

Nerdwing re; autorotation you need forward speed to cause the blades to spin with cyclic down, which you in theory, convert to lift with cyclic full up at the last minute. Don't know if it works in game.

I think it is supposed to. To try it from a hover your going to need plenty of hight, so good luck with that. Autorotation, The clue is in the name, the faster the air hits the blades the faster they spin which hopefully can at the last seconds be converted to lift..... or not!

[Gruman 123]

Have a question; Is it possible to detach the pod from a Taru then pick up a new one. (other than with the slings) like the loadmaster has the option? with a key combo.

It is not possible to detach the pods. And what was said in the General Development Disussion, its not planned to make it that way. So you need to wait until somebody makes a mod.

Currently is a bit annoying that many buildings trigger an exlosion when you put your wheels/skids onto the roof... Nothing to do with an extended damage model.. It should just not happen. Please provide a fix for this.

Still in the progress to learn the new AFM. I really like all of the changes. Looking forward to relearn everything again when VRS hits us.

[jgaz-uk 132]

So it would have to be an attach sqf for the Taru pods, not too difficult, but pity its not default. Like you say someone will come up with a mod.

[Gruman 123]

So it would have to be an attach sqf for the Taru pods, not too difficult, but pity its not default. Like you say someone will come up with a mod.

Or just despawn and respawn the vehicle to have it properly connected and AI Friendly. Was discussed a lot in the general discussion in the section of the forums.

[zimms 22]

Check out the MCC thread for a nice Taru demonstration.

[KeyCat 131]

First of all congratulations for the release!

Currently is a bit annoying that many buildings trigger an exlosion when you put your wheels/skids onto the roof... Nothing to do with an extended damage model.. It should just not happen. Please provide a fix for this.

Yea, also wonder if we will see further fixes/tweaks to the HE heli damage model.

/KC

[oukej 2910]

Currently is a bit annoying that many buildings trigger an exlosion when you put your wheels/skids onto the roof... Nothing to do with an extended damage model.. It should just not happen. Please provide a fix for this.

The collision detection had been improved right before the stable patch was rolled out. Afaict you shouldn't be able to enter the building's geometry with the skids/wheels anymore (and get a fatal physx response for that). It's still possible with the other parts of the helicopter (e.g. nose). Improvements here are still subject to investigation.

[Gruman 123]

The collision detection had been improved right before the stable patch was rolled out. Afaict you shouldn't be able to enter the building's geometry with the skids/wheels anymore (and get a fatal physx response for that). It's still possible with the other parts of the helicopter (e.g. nose). Improvements here are still subject to investigation.

Thank you for your response. While I wasnt able to land on any buildings on Sahrani, I was certainly (with one or two exceptions) able to land on most on Clafghan. I assume those problems wouldnt occur on Altis or Startis. Thank you. Good work.

Now if the helicopter wouldnt explode everytime you roll a bit (and allready lost your main rotor btw), that would be fantastic. Give at least a litttle chance for the crew when the impact wasnt to strong.

Slowly I can fly the Littlebird without fighting to much... should be good until VRS hits us :P.

[jgaz-uk 132]

I changed the 2xR for rope connection, to 2xL in my settings, a flash of lights on & off looks better than the default R firing flares in the large Helos. L for load?

[enex 11]

In regards to helicopter damage modeling I watched last night helicopter crashes on youtube.About 90 precent

ends up with broken twisted metal pretty much like car crashes.Exception was crashes from really high

altitude/with tremendous force.

So would it be really stupid to take out explosion for helicopter collision?I don't think so.Something to think about.

[tinter 186]

In regards to helicopter damage modeling I watched last night helicopter crashes on youtube.About 90 precent

ends up with broken twisted metal pretty much like car crashes.Exception was crashes from really high

altitude/with tremendous force.

So would it be really stupid to take out explosion for helicopter collision?I don't think so.Something to think about.

In my opinion, all the explosions in arma are mainly really silly. Things in real life don't explode as often as in Arma. If you want realism, take out the explosions from helicopter except if you're crashing into the ground, and increase crew damage to still make it lethal. From a gameplay perspective it'd be nice if they just took out the explosions, since auto-rotations are too hard when you end up exploding if you fall on the side.

---------- Post added at 08:20 ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 ----------

Also am I the only one completely unable to auto-rotate in the blackfoot? As my engine cuts out, my nose starts dropping as I go straight into the ground, or I level out and get a descent rate of -30 which doesn't slow down with increasing collective.

[oukej 2910]

I think you've misunderstood the roll-over explosions ;). It's not that we think the helicopters should explode on small collisions or when rolled over.

It's more of an technical issue and as far as I can tell a limitation of the AFM simulation vs. collisions, detection and physx. Simply put - you enter the geometry with a part of the helicopter, physical simulation detects it and gives you an adequate response.

Our engine and config guys are trying to tackle it.

[roberthammer 582]

I think you've misunderstood the roll-over explosions ;). It's not that we think the helicopters should explode on small collisions or when rolled over.

It's more of an technical issue and as far as I can tell a limitation of the AFM simulation vs. collisions, detection and physx. Simply put - you enter the geometry with a part of the helicopter, physical simulation detects it and gives you an adequate response.

Our engine and config guys are trying to tackle it.

Well i know the TKOH didnt had Physx but in TKOH the helicopters didn't explode when helicopter rolled over or when you lost the rotor

That way it should be more realistic than Bay's explosions

Edited November 6, 2014 by RobertHammer

[tinter 186]

I think you've misunderstood the roll-over explosions ;). It's not that we think the helicopters should explode on small collisions or when rolled over.

It's more of an technical issue and as far as I can tell a limitation of the AFM simulation vs. collisions, detection and physx. Simply put - you enter the geometry with a part of the helicopter, physical simulation detects it and gives you an adequate response.

Our engine and config guys are trying to tackle it.

I realize I might've put it in too simple a way and it's more advanced than just "taking out the explosions", but I assume from your response that BIS is also not satisfied with this behaviour and are looking to change it then?

[Gruman 123]

I think you've misunderstood the roll-over explosions ;). It's not that we think the helicopters should explode on small collisions or when rolled over.

It's more of an technical issue and as far as I can tell a limitation of the AFM simulation vs. collisions, detection and physx. Simply put - you enter the geometry with a part of the helicopter, physical simulation detects it and gives you an adequate response.

Our engine and config guys are trying to tackle it.

Just a stupid thought. Since you are able to land the Ghosthawk/Huron on its belly (when the gear is up), wouldnt it be possible to define the rest of the airframe the same ground contact memory points /Collisionbox?

I really hope you guys tackle the issues. I have a big smile everytime I survive a heli crash (when I loose my rotor on a building). And this is one of the most mentioned issues every guy has who makes a video about the flight model...

[tinter 186]

I think it has to do with the rotor or engine. Can't exactly remember why but I just seem to remember some connection.

[metralla 19]

The problem is system damage of Arma3 and unfortunately is the worst that has the game Arma3. I think this system could be improved damage if they change the way they operate vehicles simply adding a delay in the explosion ... car still receive damage normally as before but slowing the explosion of the vehicle and if possible add new effects such as a mild fire vehicle and progressive and this time with a final explosion. And better to do this than having to change the whole system damage as this I think it's unthinkable for the game developers. :annoy::681:

Simple changes in the sequence of collision or damage to any vehicle:

1nd Damage to engine or Fuel Status: RED = Smokescreen

2nd Starting a fire, fire increases progressively

3rd Final Explosion vehicle --- Adding a logical time before exploding

Simple but effective :popup:

Edited November 6, 2014 by Metralla