Ukraine General

[akm74 1]

lol. Nuland cookies on Maidan was not free after all... :j:

[mistyronin 1181]

Looks like the Putschist are already robbing Ukraine before their star is sinking completly. This is including the scythic gold artifacts.

The problem is...Gold that is once in the USA will never be given back.

Interesting, it would be nice to know more about that subject.

On the other hand, the one that was a documented fact was: Moscow gold

[tortuosit 485]

German media really hope for a war, they'd probably drop nades themselves in order to report, that Russia destabilized THE WHOLE WORLD. Oh yeah, how opic.

Today the headlines are, amongst others:

Ukrainian soldier died because of russian intervention!

A russian soldier died, we don't know how that happened.

Very interesting is the choice of interview partners. They very often show us beautiful girls and young people, if Ukrainian side, from the russian side they show us old babushkas with golden teeth, hooligan like youth and old people. The message is clear.

Well, propaganda on all sides. I am convinced it will not be a problem, to have a strong Russia and a strong western Block,... as long as you don't have crazy people on both sides. And I think despite all doubts, Obama will be responsible and not drop atomic bombs just for fun. Putin as well. They all want to keep businesses running. Stay calm, go along, nothing to see here.

There's just a wild chorus of crazy media hens.

[vilas 473]

Interesting, it would be nice to know more about that subject.

behind the scene majority of revoultions it is always the same scheme: usual people fight and die for freedom, rich bastards elite banksters are making more money on selling weapons, medical products, rebuilding what was bombed etc.

in almost all revoultions in the history there were 2 groups - those who fight for ideas, those who fuel the flame of war cause they earn money from this war, in all geographical areas,

media really hope for a war, they'd probably drop nades themselves in order to report

every media love it, in every country, cause then they are on top and release commercial advertisments and they have big views rate on that commercials, media love tragedies, than commercials are also highly visible (i do not know about your media, but in Polish media on 60 min of broadcast you have 15 minutes of advertisments)

I am convinced it will not be a problem, to have a strong Russia and a strong western Block,... as long as you don't have crazy people on both sides.

but you have such crazy person already , that crazy person see "nationalism" of others, but do not see his much bigger nationalism, that person is Putin, he brainwashes Russians with propaganda like "when Poland buy bullet proof vest it is almost attack on our people" and 11% of Russians vote for Zhyrinovsky (who says that Poland, Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia should not exist and Ukrainians should be ejected on Alaska) and 20% vote on commies who praise Stalin and you have their nazi bikers who attack people defending their own territory and , lack of respect to others and their territory and freedom - for Russians it is not nationalism at all, that how their media shaped them and Putin shaped it,

problem is that Russians are nowadays much more nationalistic than rest of people and they do not see it as nationalism , stupid and old example - addonmaking, i had few Russians in P85 team long ago and they came to conclusion that mod dedicated to Central Europe (my country with surrounding countries) should have muuuuuuuch more Soviet models (although there was 4:1 to rest of countries) and armies of other countries shoule be rejected - cause it should be mod only about Soviet army and Polish army should be deleted from P85 , when Soviet troops had 60 models and other countries had 9 models, they were saying that other countries are over numbered and Russia is not enough represented , outnumbered, than they came to my mod and proposed to fire me from my mod and make mod from my models about Soviet army and i should use BIG LETTERS "when i say about Brave Heroic Soviet Soldier", in 2006 my account on one Arma forum was hacked by one guy from Russia and he said that he did it cause i don't do enough Russian models etc.

sounds nonsens, sounds irrational sounds insane ?

but this is nationalism in pure form, but they do not see it as nationalism, they see "Ukrainian nazis" while they are nazis themselves (typical way of thinking "we are the best, we have the right to do what we want cause we are stronger, they do not have any right cause they are weaker"), even on this forum Russians believe in Putin like in god although he lies "no troops on Crimea and they bought BTR80, Gaz TigrM in shop" and when Poland wanted to protect against missiles it means that this is danger to Russia that we want to have ABM system, if they were not nationalists why the hell they vote for Zyrinovsky who says that my country or MistyRonin country should not exist and should be occupied by Russia ?

http://img.wiocha.pl/images/6/e/6e4973bd069ca638b2b9e586a6db999a.jpg

http://gif.wiocha.pl/images/2/9/2947dd241fcdf3457ffd719e690148c2.gif

look they treat him as god , this is insane, look at those pictures from internet which are not photoshopped

this is insane, politicians who lie is not saint, people who say about invading other countries should not be voted, Zyrinovsky has 11% of votes, in western societies such politicians who deny other nations right to existence are eliminated by voters and they have 1% max (every country has such politicians but they are 1% of votes, not 11)

Edited March 19, 2014 by vilas

[Rydygier 1302]

Seems to be deep rooted into euroasian's mentality to worship their rulers like semi-gods, to idolize them and obey blindly. To seek desperatelly for someone, that will "liberate" them from free will, own reason and judgement, from terrifying perspective of self-determination and responsability for controlling own life. Seems, like people able to watch on own government's hands and actually willing to think and act responsibly and to judge critically leader's actions, to see in leaders, what they really are - the servants of the nation, people that appreciate the dignity of free decide their own lives are there always in minority. Am I mistaken here?

[Tonci87 163]

Seems to be deep rooted into euroasian's mentality to worship their rulers like semi-gods, to idolize them and obey blindly. To seek desperatelly for someone, that will "liberate" them from free will, own reason and judgement, from terrifying perspective of self-determination and responsability for controlling own life. Seems, like people able to watch on own government's hands and actually willing to think and act responsibly and to judge critically leader's actions, to see in leaders, what they really are - the servants of the nation, people that appreciate the dignity of free decide their own lives are there always in minority. Am I mistaken here?

Yes you are kind off. You have that all around the world, not just in Eurasia

[Rydygier 1302]

Question of proportions and scale perhaps. Sure, everywhere you may meet such people. Yet, attitude towards leaders seems to be quite opposite amongst Poles, I asked (very critical and not much respect) and people from the east (full of respect, much less criticism, more obedience), I spoke about this. But try to name other places on the planet, where politicians are pictured on "icons" like saints and kissed with worship... It is also about history. While Russia has long and still alive tradition of authoritarian/absolute rule, Poles opposite - in the past power of the kings was limited by very numerous nobility class even too much. What mattered then was "golden freedom of nobility", where every noble felt like independent king on own possesion. And it look same till now, when comes to opinions about government etc.

So perhaps it is more about Poland-Russia mentality oposition, where both are overdoing in opposite directions, do not know.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Rydygier

[mistyronin 1181]

Question of proportions and scale perhaps. Sure, everywhere you may meet such people. Yet, attitude towards leaders seems to be quite opposite amongst Poles, I asked (very critical and not much respect) and people from the east (full of respect, much less criticism, more obedience)

I agree, I have worked with people from a lot of nationalities, and I've seen that people from what has been called the West ( Western Europe and US ), and they are really critical with who and how they are lead, and can't bear much stupidities at work; while people from Eastern Europe, Mid East and South America, tend to be more obedient and don't tend to complain much.

That created a really funny situation when we were trying to gather supports to issue a joint complain about one of our bosses... But I think that has to do with how you are grown up, if you are educated by good teachers with good methods and taught to think for yourself, then is harder to be lead by someone that you see that doesn't have any idea of what he's doing.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Video has emerged of what appears to the head of Ukraine's state TV company being beaten up in his offices by MPs from the far-right Svoboda party. After roughing up Aleksandr Panteleymonov, the men force him to sign his resignation. Euronews says one of those involved in the assault is the deputy head of Ukraine's committee on freedom of speech.

Video in Euronews

[arttem 1]

Video in Euronews

I think it's a Ruskie propoganda. They are all from KGB. I seen them last year, they was kissing icon with Putin, they was dressed in Ñossack uniform. Vilas showed proofs. ;)

P.S. Vilas, I'm an ex master sergeant (or first sergeant) of Russian army, i'm standing on knees and begging you - stop posting each stupid picture that you found in internet. Please. I've never seen, never heard in real life about icons with Putin. Or situations when smbd kissing icon with Putin. On those photo it's a badly photoshoped icon of saint virgin Maria. And Ñossacks have such tradition.

Edited March 30, 2014 by ArtTem

[Amra 10]

I think it's a Ruskie propoganda. They are all from KGB. I seen them last year, they was kissing icon with Putin, they was dressed in Ñossack uniform. Vilas showed proofs. ;)

P.S. Vilas, I'm an ex master sergeant of Russian army, i'm standing on knees and begging you - stop posting each stupid picture that you found in internet. Please. I've never seen, never heard in real life about icons with Putin. Or situations when smbd kissing icon with Putin. On those photo it's a badly photoshoped icon of saint virgin Maria. And Ñossacks have such tradition.

No, let it be -) Besides of ultra-lols as it is it can bring even more. Just let them believe this nonsense like in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault%27s_Pendulum. Vilas, we're all KGB agents, I have tattoo of Lenin, Stalin, Putin and Zhirinovsky on my chest. Every morning I pray to them and I have their icons as well. Because they are our Great Dark Gods of Evil Empire. Amen.

[Tonci87 163]

Krimean selfe defense forces have attacked another base. This time no shots were fired, the Ukrainian soldiers left the base.

[arttem 1]

Krimean selfe defense forces have attacked another base. This time no shots were fired, the Ukrainian soldiers left the base.

Hmmmm.

[mistyronin 1181]

Ukraine's Interim President, Olexander Turchynov, has given the authorities in Crimea three hours to release "all hostages", including Ukrainian navy chief Serhiy Hayduk, Unian news agency reports.

But there are no words of the possible "consequences".

Krimean selfe defense forces have attacked another base. This time no shots were fired, the Ukrainian soldiers left the base.

To me the only good thing of this military invasion, is that is bloodless. It's still an antidemocratic, illegal, military invasion; but until today we have not seen much blood; and I hope it will stay like that.

But I'm afraid Putin is still hungry of invading more territory ( same as Hitler in its day ), and until now he has been enabled by the rest of the world...

Edited March 19, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Dwarden 1124]

Interesting, it would be nice to know more about that subject.

On the other hand, the one that was a documented fact was: Moscow gold

there are always issues with 'gold' when things go wrong

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/31/bank-of-england-and-nazis-stolen-gold

there were also issues with CSR golden reserves after Soviets armies 'liberated us' at end of WW2...

[spooky lynx 73]

Meanwhile Rada deputies from VO Svoboda politely asked the director of TC chanell to leave his work.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1c6eYId4fPE

And during mentioned here 'storming' of Ukrainian military base (military topography center) two died - one Ukrainian army soldier and one local self-defence member, both were killed by shots made from nearby abandoned building.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[akm74 1]

Hmmmm.

to be fair, i have a mixed feeling about it. They was offered truce until this friday. Even if "no shots were fired" i still think it wrong. Most of the solders already deflected long time ago. Mostly officers left. What about some of them if they from west Ukraine ? They can't (and never will) shoot at crowd even for defend them self... they can't surrender and just walk away because they will be prosecuted at home land. And they can't join "other side" because they relatives most likely will be punished then. What choice do they have ?

Edited March 19, 2014 by AKM74

[ProfTournesol 956]

Most of the solders already deflected long time ago. Mostly officers left.

Do you have any reliable source about this ?

[Beagle 684]

Do you have any reliable source about this ?

One thing is sure: Reliable sources are a scarce since all sides spill out mostly propaganda or simply remain silent on facts that don't fit in their picture.

BTW here is the first big example emerging that the german industries do not care for sanctions... and that the german government can't enforce it upon them simply because a government is just a national administration while those companies are global players.

Russia will get a new military simulation training center for tank troops build by Rheinmetall this year despite any talks of sanctions because Rheinmetall has decide that way and the govermnent has to keep calm.

http://www.dw.de/rheinmetall-poised-to-honor-military-delivery-contract-with-russia/a-17507715

Edited March 19, 2014 by Beagle

[mistyronin 1181]

Meanwhile Rada deputies from VO Svoboda politely asked the director of TC chanell to leave his work.:)

I posted the piece of news ( and the video ) in one of my previous posts. BTW its in all the "Western" media, for example BBC, The Guardian, NBC News, also in Amnesty International and OSCE.

IMO that kind of attitudes shouldn't be allowed, specially having in mind that one of that MPs is the deputy head of Ukraine's committee on freedom of speech. That people have to be punished. And thank god that kind of people are a minority in Ukraine.

Even the main Ukrainian politicians have condemned this stunt ( even members of their same party ):

Politician Vitali Klitschko, who plans to stand in the presidential elections in May, said it was important the MPs were punished, calling their acts "savagery and lawlessness". He added: "Ukrainians changed the power in the country because of lawlessness and lack of justice. This should not remain unpunished. All Svoboda MPs who resorted to force should vacate their seats."

The interior minister, Arsen Avakov, wrote on his Facebook page that while he found the broadcasting of the First Channel to be unacceptable, he found Svoboda's methods to be the same.

"As the interior minister, I am ready to organise all the required investigative efforts as soon as instructed by the general prosecutor," he wrote.

Given that the prosecutor general is also a member of Svoboda, the incident could prove a key test for Ukraine's fledgling government, cobbled together in the aftermath of Yanukovych's flight from Kiev.

[akm74 1]

Do you have any reliable source about this ?

not sure how reliable this for you. MistyRonin post it yestarday. You can jump to 7.40

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2647176&viewfull=1#post2647176

[scrim 1]

to be fair, i have a mixed feeling about it. They was offered truce until this friday. Even if "no shots were fired" i still think it wrong.

What's wrong, nicking someone's country, or shooting at their soldiers when they refuse to commit treason?

[mistyronin 1181]

What's wrong, nicking someone's country, or shooting at their soldiers when they refuse to commit treason?

There was an agreement by the main commands of both Russia and Ukraine that stated that there won't be any action until day 21. It seems that some Russian officer has not had enough patience ( nor honor ).

( BBC ) Ukraine preparing Crimea withdrawal

( BBC ) Crimea crisis: Russian President Putin's speech annotated

Edited March 19, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

not sure how reliable this for you. MistyRonin post it yestarday. You can jump to 7.40

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2647176&viewfull=1#post2647176

Thanks, that seems quite reliable to me. I didn't see anything about officers, but i may have missed it. They didn't say "most of soldiers", but 60 who left and 50 who stayed.

[mistyronin 1181]

( Russia Today ) Ukraine quits CIS, sets visa regime with Russia, wants Crimea as 'demilitarized zone'

I'm afraid Putin will laugh for a long time after reading Ukraine's petition to turn Crimea into a "Demilitarized zone".

[akm74 1]

I didn't see anything about officers, but i may have missed it. They didn't say "most of soldiers", but 60 who left and 50 who stayed.

yw. No, you don't miss it. By "Mostly officers left" i mean mostly officers left standing in base. And by "most of soldiers" i mean in general, not in particular base.

Some of the other bases completely empty for week already. Like border patrol baraks was captured 2 weeks ago.

For "reliable source" just search week old posts/news, i'm to lassy :o