Ukraine General

[arttem 1]

Oh. Nice response Yulya.

http://i.imgur.com/MbM7Qrd.png (272 kB)

https://twitter.com/YuliaTymoshenko

Translate. Yes it was mine phone speech. But KGB changed a word. I didn't say 8 billion people. I've said Russians in Ukraine is Ukraine people. Another words wasn't corrected. Hello KGB!

After that i can say that Yulya was very hurry to type answer in her official twitter. Cause as for me. If it was me, for example, I would tell that KGB corrected words about killing smdy or about nuke. :crazy_o:

As i hear in dialog, words about 8 billion Ruskies is not her words. Lol. Yulya be more carefull. But it's ok. Happy elections Yulya.

Edited March 24, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

Oh. Nice response Yulya.

http://i.imgur.com/MbM7Qrd.png (272 kB)

https://twitter.com/YuliaTymoshenko

Translate. Yes it was mine phone speech. But KGB changed a word. I didn't say 8 billion people. I've said Russians in Ukraine is Ukraine people. Another words wasn't corrected. Hello KGB!

After that i can say that Yulya was very hurry to type answer in her official twitter. Cause as for me. If it was me, for example, I would tell that KGB corrected words about killing smdy or about nuke. :crazy_o:

As i hear in dialog, words about 8 billion Ruskies is not her words. Lol. Yulya be more carefull. But it's ok. Happy elections Yulya.

Wow. She must be really stupid to have such a conversation via phone....

[arttem 1]

Oh. It's only a beginning. You will have a lot of surprises ahead as soon as you will open borders. /sry offtop

Edited March 24, 2014 by ArtTem

[spooky lynx 73]

Russia Slams Robbery of Russian Train Passengers in Ukraine

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) Afghan president Hamid Karzai backs Russia's annexation of Crimea

The Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, has backed Russia's annexation of Crimea, saying a much-criticised referendum on its future reflected its people's "free will" to decide their future.

That stance, announced at a meeting with a US congressional delegation, puts Afghanistan in company with Venezuela, Syria and a few other nations.

[arttem 1]

( The Guardian ) Afghan president Hamid Karzai backs Russia's annexation of Crimea

- Republic of the Serbian Bosnia and Herzegovina;

- Kazakhstan;

- Venezuela;

- Armenia;

- Democratic People's Republic of Korea;

- Syria;

- Kyrgyzstan;

- Belarus;

- African union;

- Abkhazia;

- South Ossetia;

- Dnestr Moldavian Republic;

- Mongolia;

- Vietnam;

- Nagorno-Karabakh Republic;

+ Afghanistan. Lol. Mmmm. He need to think twice. Cause Apaches and Cobras can turn back. :)

Edited March 24, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

- Republic of the Serbian Bosnia and Herzegovina;

- Kazakhstan;

- Venezuela;

- Armenia;

- Democratic People's Republic of Korea;

- Syria;

- Kyrgyzstan;

- Belarus;

- African union.

+ Afghanistan. Lol. Mmmm. He need to think twice. Cause Apaches and Cobras can turn back. :)

Uhm, traditional Russian allies and well Afghanistan, has to be nice to be in a party with all their representatives!

I think that were the Spanish the ones that says: tell me with who you go, and I'll tell you who you are ( dime con quien vas, y te dire quien eres ).

Karzai is building a really nice CV, fighting the soviets, being promoted by the US and now backing Russia...

- - - - -

Sergey #Lavrov and John Kerry's meeting in Hague @RusEmbUSA

Edited March 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

Karzai is building a really nice CV, fighting the soviets, being promoted by the US and now backing Russia...

Yep. I guess he's looking for new supports, after US withdrawal from Astan.

[mistyronin 1181]

- - - - - -

Allow me to add the RT point of view about Tymoshenko's leak.

( Russian Today ) Time to grab guns and kill damn Russians – Tymoshenko in leaked tape

Tymoshenko confirmed the authenticity of the conversation on Twitter, while pointing out that a section where she is heard to call for the nuclear slaughter of the eight million Russians who remain on Ukrainian territory was edited.

She tweeted “The conversation took place, but the '8 million Russians in Ukraine' piece is an edit. In fact, I said Russians in Ukraine – are Ukrainians. Hello FSB :) Sorry for the obscene language.â€

FSB = Federal Security Service ( successor to KGB )

And here from the International Business Times:

Ukraine's Ex-PM Tymoshenko: Take up Arms and Kill the Russians

Tymoshenko confirmed that the conversation took place on Twitter from her verified account. But she pointed out that the end of the leaked recording, when she threatens to use atomic weapons against eight million Russians living in Ukraine, has been edited and manipulated.

A translation reads: "The conversation took place, but the 'eight million Russians in Ukraine' piece is a manipulation. In fact, I said that Russians in Ukraine are Ukrainians. Hello FSB [the Russian secret service] :) Sorry for the obscene language."

Edited March 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

- - - - - -

Allow me to add the RT point of view about Tymoshenko's leak.

( Russian Today ) Time to grab guns and kill damn Russians – Tymoshenko in leaked tape

FSB = Federal Security Service ( successor to KGB )

And here from the International Business Times:

Ukraine's Ex-PM Tymoshenko: Take up Arms and Kill the Russians

So ok. No we have an answer. Dialog looks like:

Shufrych. I tell you that I'm your ally here, and even more than that. I want to tell you... well we've had a talk today, this morning there's been a conference of party leaders and then I talked to Viktor. Vitya asked what we should do to the rest Russians still living in Ukraine? Russians in Ukraine are Ukrainians!

Tymoshenko. Damn, we should fire nukes at them!

Or second variant:

Shufrych. I tell you that I'm your ally here, and even more than that. I want to tell you... well we've had a talk today, this morning there's been a conference of party leaders and then I talked to Viktor. Vitya asked what we should do to the rest Russians still living in Ukraine?

Tymoshenko. Russians in Ukraine are Ukrainians! Damn, we should fire nukes at them!

They are so cute. I'm crying.

Edited March 24, 2014 by ArtTem

[vilas 473]

makes me laugh - first you hit someone and than you expect no revenge?

eye for an eye is basis of few religions, Judaism and Catholicism (Bible) , Islam (Quoran) religion and few more religions state revenge as natural first rule,

Russia takes away part of Ukraine (after first 2 decades of Ukrainian state existance after centuries of Russian occupation since 1780s) and expect Ukrainians to be nice ?

the same like surprise that Chechens make terrorist attacks or Nother Ireland make terrirorist attack or during WW2 partisans were making terroriist attacks ?

if you kick someone, do not expect him to be nice to you,

if you are nice to him, he will be nice to you too, in WW2 SS was posting comunicates "Polish bandits killed SS Obersturmbanfuhrer ..." yeaa

it is illogical if you expect them to love you after your country invade part of their country and 123% of Sevastopol people vote

if you want people to be nice to you, than:

- do not invade them,

- do not make them slaves ,

- do not deport them,

- do not steal from them,

- do not occupy them,

- do not force them or bully them,

does anyone has anything against Sweden ? no, cause since 5 centuries Sweden didn't participated in any war

does anyone has anything against Switzerland ? no, cause since several centuries Swiss people not hurted anyone

does anyone has anything against Czechs ? no, cause Czech doesn't invade anyone, had no colonies, had no slaves,

does anyone has anything against Canadians ? no,

etc

etc

etc

love for love, attack for attack - basic human psyhology and logic and also religions, there is only way to have a peace - to give peace to someone (for example free Chechnya, than you gonna have zero terrorist attack and no problems with them at all, what causes anti-Israeli attacks in Israel ? occupation of Palestine)

my grandfather was partisan during WW2 , he was fighting those who occupied my country territory, why ? it is natural, they invaded, he fought with them with some efficient "results" that gave him officers rank,

what do i do to be person who all people in my job like ? i am nice to anyone, i am helping, so people like me,

what would be if i was bullying others ? i would be hated and people would wait how to kick me out - it is natural

people in Ukraine have their state for the first time in history , they want to enjoy it and than Russia comes and take away part of their administrative land (with voting in which 123% inhabitants voted in Sevastpol) and you expect them to love Russians , it is not logical , if you want them to like you, than you have to show them respect to their independence, show them support - this way we make friends in life, other way we make enemies in life ,

friends that i have in life are guys whom i helped when they needed help or which helped me,

if i was kicking them when they were down, they would be my enemies, not my friends - it is so basic and logical, hard that you are surprised

if Russia would left Ukraine alone after Maidan, soon there would be free elections and Ukrainians would vote for party A or B or C and if economy would rely from Russian help, than people would outvoted Banderas totally,

now when Russia pushes and bullies Ukraine, national tension rise and thanx to mr. Putin nationalists will have many percents, due to Russian actions, as natural resistance in such situation ,

we do not make friends in life by kicking them when they are ill or weak, we make friends in life by helping someone

i read some Tatars that already said about some "surprises" for Russia (read probably surprises in Chechen way)

thing with logic how to make friends and what cause enemies, if you occupy nation - you will make them nationalists or terrorists/freedom-fighter in their p.o.v., simple

make friends in life is not that hard, simply don't try to bully others, leave those people and not take their land, they will see that democracy is better and they will give up all Bandera movements in some months,

it works in politics the same way as on street, when someone tries to rob you on street and you train martial arts or when you have gun, when you are friendly, others are friendly,

i work with guy whose grandfather was killed in Katyn cause he was officer (Sergeant), do you think he is thankfull to USSR or he dislikes USSR for no reasons ? no, cause it is natural that you do not make friends by occupation, you make friends by giving a hand (what Russia should do after Maidan ? nothin, Russia should wait what will be election result, react military ONLY when Banderas would kill/attack Russians, ONLY THEN, not help Yanuk and let Yanuk face justice for economical crimes)

i have friends in life , cause i do not bully people and i help people, i do not invade anyone home, i do not steal from people etc. life is than nice and people are friendly - this way it works in politics between countries too

123% people vote in Sevastopol and you not call it fraud, why ?

Edited March 24, 2014 by vilas

[spooky lynx 73]

Russian occupation of Ukraine? Oh LOL... So is Pereyaslav Rada an occupation?

P.S. Vilas, I'd ask you to google some info about 1992-1994 in Chechnya (about such persons as Umar Avturhanov, Ruslan Labazanov etc.).

Some pics of meeting of Ukrainian soldiers returning home to Crimea:

http://i.imgur.com/cpwvNF6.jpg (105 kB)

http://i.imgur.com/zhQqrBK.jpg (111 kB)

http://i.imgur.com/RhLR2IC.jpg (103 kB)

Edited March 24, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[vilas 473]

if you not call Tsar (Russian Empire XVIIIc-1917) and USSR ocupation of other countries - not occupation, than please study dictionary

Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Finland, Poland etc. were occupied since 1780s-1918

Lithuania, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia till 1991s

do you call USSR or Russian Empire (Tsar rules) not occupation of those nations ?

do you call illegal territory anexation not occupation ? currently Crimea is occupied cause votes in which 123% people vote for is not honest vote

[spooky lynx 73]

I've studied dictionary and found Pereyaslav Rada a union treaty but not occupation.

[mistyronin 1181]

I really enjoy reading both of your opinions, but I'd like to keep this thread open, so please focus on the subject and debate with education, don't take it personally please :)

I may be wrong, but I believe we are all grown ups with at least high school or university education.

Edited March 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[vilas 473]

Ukrainians have their country for the first time in their history so they will be more extremistic for generation at least - is natural too, they are nervous and any foreign interverntion will not make anything good,

person who has new desired toy for first time, doesn't want otheres to touch it, so you should not be surprised about Bandera movement raise as result of Putin politics, politics that now Russia makes only will make raise of Banderas, nothing more,

after-Maidan gov. doesn't have so far plans of elections, there are no investigation about snipers, there is no investigation about man who said that Poland, Finland will be put into Russia etc.

the more chaos now due to Crimea, things that should be investigated are not investigated (in chaos noone cares)

if Russia would not anex Crimea, than public opinion would be focused in Ukraine on : election (so far noone knows what is support to new Ukrainian gov. ) and who hired(if hired) snipers that started whole Maidan killing, - Putin politics doesn't help clearing those cases,

if Russia really want to avoid "nazis rise" than Russia should do as less as possible to touch other countries (than let Ukraine will investigate internal problems)

Ukraine had in Maidan few forces fighting there , one nationalistic, another pro-EU, another anti-corruption only but not pro-EU, so far nothing was investigated afaik and all focused on Crimea

I may be wrong, but I believe we are all grown ups with at least high school education.

MSc in 2002, resigned from making PhD (railway engineering) due to lack of money in 2003, 2 friends made PhD than in 2003/5 (PhD gives you nothin, noone wants you cause you are overqualified and boss afraids of you if you are better), but later my job was specialization scales/weighing instruments + speedmeters (traffic police, market surveilance), working with many PhD now after job change :)

Edited March 24, 2014 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

( from The Guardian )

A joint statement, which is being called "The Hague Declaration", has been released by G7 leaders (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and the US.

This clear violation of international law is a serious challenge to the rule of law around the world and should be a concern for all nations. In response to Russia’s violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and to demonstrate our determination to respond to these illegal actions, individually and collectively we have imposed a variety of sanctions against Russia and those individuals and entities responsible. We remain ready to intensify actions including coordinated sectoral sanctions that will have an increasingly significant impact on the Russian economy, if Russia continues to escalate this situation.

IMO this can be summarized as: Bla bla bla

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

MSc in 2002, resigned from making PhD (railway engineering) due to lack of money in 2003, 2 friends made PhD than in 2003/5 (PhD gives you nothin, noone wants you cause you are overqualified and boss afraids of you if you are better), but later my job was specialization scales/weighing instruments + speedmeters (traffic police, market surveilance), working with many PhD now after job change :)

Precisely, we are all capable of keeping a civilized talk :)

In my case I've a degree in Computer Science, Master in Photojournalism and half a degree in Anthropology. Besides having been a NATO professional military ( although I live in Finland, I'm not native, I was born in another EU country ).

Edited March 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[vilas 473]

if there were conspiracy theories that:

- CIA hired snipers to get rid of Yanuk and join Ukr to EU

- nazis hired snipers

why not consipracy theory like:

- Putin hired snipers to make civil war in Ukr and seize Crimea ?

so far only one who gained is Russia, not EU, not USA, neigbors of Ukraine only lost, as my country lost money on deals with Russian customers,

all started from Maidan shooting , someone shoot, normally police when does investigation questions "who gained money on this, who lost money, one who gained is suspected"

so far 2 sides gained:

- Russia (much more, Crimea)

- nationalists in Ukraine to get to gov.

Edited March 24, 2014 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

I share the point of view of this article, as you could have read in my previous replies in this thread.

( BBC ) Russian manoeuvres keep the West guessing

[...] Military men have to look at both capabilities and intentions. The Western military view is that, primed by recent exercises, Russia has gathered sufficient forces at least for an initial thrust into eastern Ukraine.

For now, Russian spokesmen in Moscow insist that this is not their intention. But they said much the same a few weeks ago about Crimea.

From the outset of this drama, it has been especially problematic to determine Russia's game-plan.

At the strategic political level, it seems that the West has greatly underestimated or failed to understand fully the great sense of national humiliation felt by Russian President Vladimir Putin and his circle at the collapse of the Soviet Union and the apparent humbling of Russia. [...]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

( The Moscow Times ) St. Patrick's Day Flashmob Members Mistaken for Gay Activists and Attacked in Siberia (Video)

Edited March 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Kerch, 501th marines battalion from forces of fast reaction became Russian. On video they rise the Russian flag and meet with theirs new commander general-major Ostrikov.

*remarks

In the beginning of video then general-major greets them, they give an answer on Ukrainian. The habit worked. He ask them to repeat. And they repeated on Russian.

270 marines.

200 - became Russian forces

30 - go home in Crimea

40 - return to big land, to serve in Ukraine forces

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

( The Moscow Times ) St. Patrick's Day Flashmob Members Mistaken for Gay Activists and Attacked in Siberia (Video)

How it corresponds to Ukraine? :) You need an opinion from Rus? But it will be one-sided opinion.

Okay. It was boys from private school. White, gentle, clever. From another side was boys from streets. I'm not sure that they know anything about kilt. So. What we have in final. Street boys beats private school boys. Who is guilty? Both sides. One side that they can't reject pressure (serious problem with boys presently) and another side that they started "fun" using kilt as an reason (serious problem with boys presently). Police caught four bad boys. Investigation is conducted. Incident took place in unsuccessful city quarter. It calls 130th. It was after flashmob. At evening. And what sensation you see here? In any city in the world i can find such quarter with the same problems.

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:35 ----------

Ukrainian crisis not to affect Finland-Russia relations - Finnish president

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/725093

http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014032418151228_uu.shtml

Can't see it in worlds massmedia. So info under question.

[mistyronin 1181]

( Vice News ) What the Hell Is Transnistria, and Is Russia About to Invade It?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Ukrainian crisis not to affect Finland-Russia relations - Finnish president

Meanwhile: ( Yle ) Poll shows support for military union with Sweden

Recent events in Ukraine have intensified a long-running debate in Finland over security policy and the possibility of joining Nato. Finland’s traditionally non-aligned stance has ensured it is not required to help any other countries militarily.

[arttem 1]

Meanwhile: ( Yle ) Poll shows support for military union with Sweden

The same news on that resourse. Why i can't find it on BBC and CNN.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/niinisto_will_continue_to_meet_with_putin/7153416

---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------

Sooooo.

http://russian.rt.com/article/25233#ixzz2wv2Su5Q8

Russia is not clinging to the G8 format, as all major world problems can be discussed at other international venues such as G20, Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said.

"The G8 is an informal club, no one gives out membership cards and no one can expel members,†Lavrov told a media conference at the Hague. “If our Western partners believe that this format has exhausted itself, let it be. We are not clinging to it.â€

"Agreement signing between Ukraine and the European Union is their business, the Russian Foreign Minister considers, but the present authorities in Kiev should wait for more legitimate situation."

"This business of Ukraine, this business of the European Union. If they made such decision, means so to that and to be. Surprises only that signing took place during this period when the new authorities of Ukraine aren't created yet. Presidential election, and not according to the agreement of February 21, and in May was declared. After that the constitutional reform has to take place and, probably, it would be simple more correctly from all points of view, etichny in relation to own people to wait for more legitimate situation in Kiev, in the leadership of Ukraine before on behalf of all the state to sign any agreements", - Lavrov told.

"It seems to me that John Kerry, at least, shows understanding of need to push implementation of those arrangements which were recorded in the agreement of February 21, - he told. - Will be, probably, correct if it occurs actually and if those who now direct the Verkhovna Rada, and those who created an office, pay it the most close attention because not everything about what agreed is made".

"Need of implementation of arrangements of February 21 is agreed also by John Kerry", - the head of the Russian foreign policy department told to journalists.

A question of one of journalists: "Why the West has to believe statements of Russia that it doesn't apply more for any areas of east part of Ukraine?" Sergey Lavrov answered "Russia doesn't force anybody to trust it. We very long trusted our western partners, since disorder of the Soviet Union when any promises were made both orally, and in writing, and in the form of top-level political obligations. Therefore we approximately represent the price of promises from our western partners. That occurred in the Crimea is connected not with our any evil intentions, and with need to protect Russians who there live, and lived there throughout centuries."

-----------------------------------------------------

So game is over.

[Smurf 12]

Why do I have a feeling these guys don't belong there?

http://i.imgur.com/r5OcfJh.jpg (102 kB)

[spooky lynx 73]

http://www.unian.ua/politics/900125-v-rivnomu-vbili-aktivista-pravogo-sektora-sashka-bilogo-deputat.html

Notorious Right sector activist Aleksandr Muzychko aka Sashko Bilyj was killed.

[Rydygier 1302]

http://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/1083356,Kreml-nie-znosi-krytyki-Profesor-traci-prace

Professor Andrei Zubov, a famous Russian historian and religious studies scholar of today's unemployed. He was kicked out of the elite Moscow State Institute of International Relations for his criticism of Putin's policy towards Ukraine.

- Numerous speeches and interviews Zubov on the events in Ukraine and Russia's foreign policy cause indignation and astonishment in the university. They are contrary to the course of Russia in the international arena. Succumb thoughtless and irresponsible criticism of state action, harm the educational and educative process - said in support of the university administration.

So, any critcism towards Putin's policy harms process of education in Russia. So there must be very interesting program of education then.

Removing Zubov, who was a professor of philosophy Cathedral, is a consequence of an article published March 1 in the newspaper "Vedomosti", in which connection the Crimea to Russia by Putin likened to the Anschluss of Austria, made ​​in 1938 by Hitler.

In the past three weeks, the historian again repeatedly criticized the military intervention of Russia in Ukraine. Last Wednesday of the stands of debating in Moscow congress of the Russian intelligentsia "against the war, the self-isolation of Russia and restoring of totalitarianism" Zubov said that Russia unleashed war with Ukraine.

- For war is considered to be the very fact of introduction troops into a foreign country without his permission - he explained. In his opinion, the Kremlin has violated the fundamental principles of the United Nations system of the Commonwealth of Independent States and the treaty of cooperation with Ukraine. - We are gathered here to say that there is another Russia, acting against the war - said the historian.

Well, good at least some out there see the things, as they are.

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------

http://wiadomosci.dziennik.pl/swiat/artykuly/454323,rozbior-ukrainy-polska-dostanie-od-rosji-lwow-zyrinowski-sie-tlumaczy.html

Vladimir Zhirinovsky is explained on the proposal of partition of Ukraine. In his opinion, it was not really offer of division, but "information letter". Further, however, points out that the current Western Ukraine "has always belonged to Poland".

:) Funny guy indeed.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Rydygier