Ukraine General

[arttem 1]

I thought it was pretty darn stupid to say "but but, there are Russians there" as a justification for invading Crimea. And now the justification from some seems to be "it's an awesome holiday resort, of course we had to annex it".

#1: The fact that only the worst countries in the world are standing on Russia's side in the UN vote means one very significant thing: Whilst not as powerful as the UN Security Council saying something, it certainly goes a long way towards indicating how many countries there are that will be prepared to sacrifice their economies for Russia's sake when the sanctions become more and heavier.

-China, why aren't you helping us out here?

-Eh? In case you didn't get the hint when we couldn't even bother raising our hand to vote in support of you in the UN, lemme make it clear to you: NO. I am not choking my economy because you wanted to look powerful and frightening, and now can't even fill your fridge.

#2: If the fact that around 50% of the Crimeans are Russians means Russia can have it, then what about Chechnya? Russians don't even make up 2% over there, whilst Chechnyans make up for over 95% of the population. And they certainly made it very clear that they wanted to be independent. Too much logic?

Yes. You are absolutely right. Sanctions will be harder soon.

P.S. And please show me, where i said that words: "it's an awesome holiday resort, of course we had to annex it".

The fact that Crimea is the part of the Russia now is the fact. Why i can't use an opportunity to visit it? And spend there some cash. Whats the problem?

Edited March 27, 2014 by ArtTem

[scrim 1]

Who says it's a part of Russia? It's pretty much like saying that Poland, the Baltic states, huge parts of Russia, etc. were part of Germany when the Germans occupied it during the war.

[arttem 1]

Who says it's a part of Russia? It's pretty much like saying that Poland, the Baltic states, huge parts of Russia, etc. were part of Germany when the Germans occupied it during the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014 :)

P.S. Welcome to real world:

After attack to Georgia to Putin's mode not to hold on more than two years /2008

http://www.inosmi.ru/translation/244912.html

Britain demands to suspend negotiations Russia — EU /2008

http://www.rosbalt.ru/2008/09/01/519203.html

The USA started talking about an exception of Russia of "Group of Eight" /2008

http://bayki.com/info/81014

In a question of cruel punishment of Russia of EU has to show unity and hardness /2008

http://www.inosmi.ru/translation/243674.html

Russia isn't present a place in G8 and WTO /2008

http://www.vz.ru/news/2008/8/18/197852.html

The head of the Pentagon threatened Russia with the power answer of the USA in Georgia and called a victory of the Russian Federation "pirrovy" /2008

http://www.newsru.com/world/19sep2008/russianotussr.html

The USA prepared Russia the nuclear answer /2008

http://newsukraine.com.ua/news/122859/

USA and Russia. The nuclear conflict to which nobody is ready /2008

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/uk/newsid_7587000/7587320.stm

Is Georgia in EU? Maybe in NATO? And where is Saakashvilly? That epic US puppet, who started hell with the words of democracy? On maidan???? Wow! What he is doing there? Why he run from Georgia?

Edited March 27, 2014 by ArtTem

[blu3sman 11]

And where is Saakashvilly?

He lost elections. You know it's such a thing when people go and vote for whoever they like and can change government without revolution. That's how it happens in normal countries.

I prefer "US puppet" to Russian puppet. Russian puppets are too expensive to feed and take rivers of blood to get rid of them.

[arttem 1]

He lost elections.

I know. Now he will help Ukraine, as he helped his state get to EU and NATO. But no problem. It's your decision.

And just a little remark.

"Mikheil Saakashvili: Georgia threatens arrest warrant" BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26764926

Edited March 27, 2014 by ArtTem

[kireta21 13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014 :)

So because setup referendum, hastly organized with "help" of Russian forces, under constant show of force and heavy propaganda war (with Ukrainian TV turned off, gee I wonder why?), where people weren't even allowed to vote aganist separation? Sure worked in past, so why not?

Edited March 28, 2014 by boota

[mistyronin 1181]

For me and for most of Russians is not interesting what over countries (not regular people) says under US pressure.

Uhm, all the world is under US pressure? We are talking about dozens of countries, even some that are allied with Russia like Kazakhstan that don't support the Russian military annexation of Crimea.

But yeah... "I don't have a problem, I'm the one who is right. It's the rest of the world that is mistaken." ( I guess Putin and some Russians may think ).

BTW if I was Russian I'd be really worried that only 11 countries support my actions, among them the worst world regimes ( I hope Putin is not gonna copy his great friend Kim Jong-un and force all Russian males to wear the same haircut ) ...

Uhm, wait... wasn't the Third Reich that also made a pact among the worst dictators in the world at that moment? ( Franco, Mussolini, etc. )

[scrim 1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014 :)

...

Is Georgia in EU? Maybe in NATO? And where is Saakashvilly? That epic US puppet, who started hell with the words of democracy? On maidan???? Wow! What he is doing there? Why he run from Georgia?

Are you aware of the fact that no democratic poll can be held in less than one month's notice, in a recently occupied country, controlled by unrecognized foreign troops, biker gangs, outright fascist war criminals from former Yugoslavia, thug militias, Cossacks beating the living hell out of anyone they please, all news medias under the control of a foreign country/replaced, and with a voting attendance in excess of 100%?

No idea what rambling you were writing about nuclear weapons, but let me put it like this: Russia is the only country in the world that makes it very clear that it will use tactical nuclear weapons at a very early stage should a war not go well. So considering that Russia is saying that it will literally speaking set off the nuclear holocaust if it can't win a war, you don't have a case for criticizing anyone.

Georgia you say? The country you invaded because your "peace keepers" that you'd conveniently forgot to tell anyone were there until they got shot at? And used it as an excuse to steal 1/5 of the country? Yeah, what about Georgia?

[spooky lynx 73]

So called annexation of Crimea, stealing the land from poor Ukrainians is widely spoken here. But I'd like to remind of some moment: since 1992 Ukraine gave a green light to UNA-UNSO whose members took part in almost every conflict against Russia. They sided with Chechen terrorists and then returned home safely and escaped any prosecution (except a couple of cases). The same thing caused operation Enduring Freedom. Other thing is that Ukraine armed regime hostile to us. And those weapons used against officially recognized and approved peacekeepers.

[John Kozak 14]

So called annexation of Crimea, stealing the land from poor Ukrainians is widely spoken here. But I'd like to remind of some moment: since 1992 Ukraine gave a green light to UNA-UNSO whose members took part in almost every conflict against Russia. They sided with Chechen terrorists and then returned home safely and escaped any prosecution (except a couple of cases). The same thing caused operation Enduring Freedom. Other thing is that Ukraine armed regime hostile to us. And those weapons used against officially recognized and approved peacekeepers.

Now, that's convenient. But it doesn't justify the annexion.

There's also a great amount of fascists, nazists, antisemits, vahhabits etc. in Russia. Should Israel and UK open war on Russia and annex Saint-Petersburg?

[Amra 10]

Now, that's convenient. But it doesn't justify the annexion.

There's also a great amount of fascists, nazists, antisemits, vahhabits etc. in Russia. Should Israel and UK open war on Russia and annex Saint-Petersburg?

Those who you mentioned are under heaviest pressure in Russia. They don't sit in the Parlament, they don't represent Russia in UN. Ukrainians nazis now sit in their Parlament, in free time they beat journalists (as you can see in video with "Svoboda" deputat), they represent country in UN (and justify nazis as Ukrainian representative did), they forbid parties and tried to ban Russian language. What would you compare next?

---------- Post added at 07:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 AM ----------

No idea what rambling you were writing about nuclear weapons, but let me put it like this: Russia is the only country in the world that makes it very clear that it will use tactical nuclear weapons at a very early stage should a war not go well. So considering that Russia is saying that it will literally speaking set off the nuclear holocaust if it can't win a war, you don't have a case for criticizing anyone.

You can google also "dead hand system" -)

[Dwarden 1124]

@artem, i remember Mikheil Saakashvili when he was praised for security economical stability in Georgia, for ensuring the electricity works 24/7 and not just rnd/rnd etc.

i remember times when Russia send heavy arty, mortars and rocket arty to 'anti-Georgia' rebels and then 'designated' Georgia as attacker when police action took place against these rebels ...

it's way too easy in that part of world to portait someone in completely different light , especially if he isn't fitting the rulebook of nearby superpower

[arttem 1]

"You can google also "dead hand system" -)

No no Amra. I was posting a scenario of politics game in 2008. And how it was represented in world's massmedia. And we both know that everything that was posted by massmedia giants in 2008 didn't come true and didn't happend. That's why i've said "welcome to real world". How it works?

For example.

"Professor Andrei Zubov, a famous Russian historian and religious studies scholar of today's unemployed. He was kicked out of the elite Moscow State Institute of International Relations for his criticism of Putin's policy towards Ukraine."

http://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/1083356,Kreml-nie-znosi-krytyki-Profesor-traci-prace

Bingo! Everybody start hate bloody dictator.

But here is another side of the coin.

http://www.hse.ru/org/persons/4013549

Ryzhkov Vladimir Aleksandrovich, High School of Economics, one of the best and powerfull university in Russia. Many people from that university works in our goverment.

And what we see?

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putins-crimean-trap/496043.html

All publications from him:

http://www.ryzkov.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=17&Itemid=20

Ola la la. Good occasion to dismiss one more. Or to torture in KGB cellars.

Aaaaaand? Nobody touches him. Nobody pays attention from goverment to him. What's the problem? He is the Professor from one of the popular university like Andrei Zubov.

The difference between both professors is very big. Andrei Zubov is the professor from goverment university wich produces future diplomats. Any diplomat, in any country - is the part of the system. He can't say what he want. His point of view is always the same with goverment, and that works for any diplomat in any country. So what he did? It calls - office discrepancy.

But Ryzhkov Vladimir is free to speak, to think and to do what he want. And bloody Putin don't touch him.

For world's massmedia and for some .... .... .... in Russia it's not favourably to speak about Ryzhkov Vladimir. Because he is speaking what he want and nobody have any questions to him. Yes, democracy.

It is absolutely clear. That for creation of the necessary point of view, for people which laziness to check information and to penetrate into it, it is more convenient to use professor from Moscow State Institute of International Relations. Oh, nooooo, bloody regime!!!!

So many people now live in virtual world. Not in real. It is their choice. It is necessary to respect it. Be the polite democrat. ;)

Edited March 28, 2014 by ArtTem

[spooky lynx 73]

Now, that's convenient. But it doesn't justify the annexion.

There's also a great amount of fascists, nazists, antisemits, vahhabits etc. in Russia. Should Israel and UK open war on Russia and annex Saint-Petersburg?

Crimea is the slightest variant of punishment, I'd say. Other countries that host terrorist organizations or their affiliates face massive airstrikes all over the territory and military occupation with tens of civilians dying from mistaken air and drone strikes.

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Ukraine leader Turchynov warns of far-right threat

kraine's interim president Olexander Turchynov has condemned the ultra-nationalist Right Sector, saying the group is bent on "destabilisation".

Right Sector activists blocked the parliament (Rada) building in Kiev on Thursday night and smashed windows.

They blamed the interior minister for the killing of a Right Sector leader.

Meanwhile, ousted President Viktor Yanukovych has called for a national referendum to determine each region's "status within Ukraine".

[arttem 1]

( BBC ) Ukraine leader Turchynov warns of far-right threat

"Meanwhile, ousted President Viktor Yanukovych has called for a national referendum to determine each region's "status within Ukraine".

It's a fake. He is sitting now in Rostov-on-Don under "home arrest". And don't make any statements. I think till evening you will find proofs in your media.

As i can see Ukraine resourses gives the same info. They don't believe in that.

http://www.ukrinform.ua/rus/news/german_schitaet_zayavlenie_yanukovicha_veroyatnee_vsego_utkoy_1607691

MistyRonin i'm very sorry. Yes. Massmedia is full of info about his statment now. My fault - sorry.

Edited March 28, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

More on that, seems that the first reference was in the Russian ITAR-TASS ( not precisely "pro-West" as it's owned by the Russian Gov. ).

( ИТÐР-ТÐСС ) Viktor Yanukovych delivers address to Ukrainian people

“As the president whose thoughts and heart are together with you, I call on each reasonable citizen of Ukraine - don’t let the impostors use you! Demand a referendum on the determination of the status of each region within Ukraine,†Yanukovych said in an address to the Ukrainian people, received by ITAR-TASS.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

( The Moscow Times ) Russia Considers UN Vote on Crimea Annexation a 'Victory'

The United Nations has overwhelmingly passed a resolution condemning the Russian annexation of Crimea while Moscow's envoy to the UN praised the vote as a "victory" after a handful of countries, such as North Korea, Venezuela and Syria chose its side.

The result is rather satisfying for us as we have won a moral and a political victory," the Russian Ambassador to the UN Vitaly Churkin said, RIA Novosti reported. "It clearly shows that Russia is not isolated."

Edited March 28, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

"Moscow will transfer to Kiev the arms"

The Russian leader already emphasized earlier need to provide respect for all military personnel of the Crimea who won't wish to pass to service on Sunday the Russian Federation. "I ask you to provide benevolent relation and respect for all people, whatever decision, and careful attitude to the Ukrainian state and military symbolics", - Putin addressed to Shoygu.

The Russian President Vladimir Putin gave the order to the Minister of Defence Sergey Shoygu to start transfer to Ukraine of arms and the military equipment, deployed in the Crimea and remained in the military divisions which haven't come over to the side of the Russian army.

Shoygu addressed to the Supreme Commander: "I ask for your permission to start transfer of arms and military equipment to Ukraine". On a question of the president he specified: "and of ship structure, and of aircraft".

"I agree, execute", - gave the order Putin.

More than 15 thousand military personnel of the Ukrainian parts, divisions and the establishments which were earlier deployed in the territory of the Republic of Crimea, expressed desire to continue military service in army structures of Russia.

http://itar-tass.com/politika/1081395

Ukraine T-64B loading on platforms.

http://i.imgur.com/5EHJP9c.jpg (259 kB)

Edited March 28, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

It seems that there is a real fear or intention in the US about a "more than likely" Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine.

( TIME ) Russian Forces Double Along Ukraine Border

( Al Arabiya ) Ukraine: 100,000 Russian troops deployed at border

( BBC ) Obama: Russia must pull back troops

[arttem 1]

It seems that there is a real fear or intention in the US about a "more than likely" Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine.

( TIME ) Russian Forces Double Along Ukraine Border

( Al Arabiya ) Ukraine: 100,000 Russian troops deployed at border

( BBC ) Obama: Russia must pull back troops

Sure. Thats why Russians returning back arms to Ukraine.

[Dwarden 1124]

Sure. Thats why Russians returning back arms to Ukraine.

we all know these tanks are returning with full russian crew :) accompanied by air escort ...

[mistyronin 1181]

Sure. Thats why Russians returning back arms to Ukraine.

I have no idea. As I said is mainly US press that since yesterday are "warning" of a "more than likely" invasion. European media don't say a word about that.

Indeed Russia has increased their forces in Ukraine's border, but with the excuse of doing exercises. Some reports commented that in case of invasion Ukraine's Army may not present much resistance but paramilitary groups could.

On the other hand we don't know yet the exact conditions of the return of the Ukrainian equipment.

[arttem 1]

I have no idea. As I said is mainly US press that since yesterday are "warning" of a "more than likely" invasion. European media don't say a word about that.

Indeed Russia has increased their forces in Ukraine's border, but with the excuse of doing exercises. Some reports commented that in case of invasion Ukraine's Army may not present much resistance but paramilitary groups could.

On the other hand we don't know yet the exact conditions of the return of the Ukrainian equipment.

It's a hard situation, Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs trying to tell them that we want give arms back. They telling about the invasion, because US telling about invasion according to theirs intel data.

---------- Post added at 15:46 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

The "Russia" bank will work only in Russia and only with rubles. "INTERFAX"

http://www.interfax.ru/368086

Moscow. March 28. INTERFAX.RU - the Russia Bank which has undergone last week to sanctions of the USA, from now will work only with rubles.

Last week the U.S. President Barack Obama declared introduction of sanctions against Russia bank which serves considerable part of business of "Gazprom", including "Gazprom mezhregiongaz" and "Gazprom energoholding".

The main correspondent accounts in dollars at bank are open in two American credit organizations — JPMorgan Chase and The Bank of New York Mellon. Corresponding accounts in euro at "Russia" are open in the Austrian Raiffeisen Bank International AG and the German Commerzbank AG.

Edited March 28, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

That is quite suprising that they want to return the weapons. As far as I can tell this is a very good move by the Russians and should help to stabilize the situation.

[spooky lynx 73]

That is quite suprising that they want to return the weapons. As far as I can tell this is a very good move by the Russians and should help to stabilize the situation.

We have really nothing to do with all that worn-out vehicles, there are plenty of the same ones at our own storage bases. Personally me think we should store them or sell somewhere far abroad just to prevent them of being used by National guard or some other far right groups in Ukraine.