Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[St. Jimmy 272]

instead of slowing down, can´t they just force us to walk its more real than 'animation slowdown'?

I think it's good that the old system gave you an option to push so much that it would've been better to change into a walk for some time and then run again. Actual forced walk doesn't sound good for other than if you're carrying too much weight like it's currently. Making walking or stopping a better option in some cases is the way to go in my opinion. That way you've more options and running for your life with the animation slowdown behind a cover might be sometimes the best option even if you're constantly 100% fatigued. Force walking gives you less options because then you would be either walking to the cover or you would be laying on the ground catching your breath.

It was cool with the old fatigue and animation slowdowns, that it gave you an option to push way too far with the running and in some cases that can be the best option because you've done a mistake that is costing you now.

[Roach_ 52]

no...you just mod the stamina to fit your realism.....

 

Wrong, it has to be realistic, you just disable it to fit your casualness. No need for more mods for stuff like this.

 

Honestly, I think you bought the wrong game.

[Kryptongame 14]

Added emphasis. All of the bolded games you mentioned require such a level of modification to keep the game fresh or to keep a dynamic meta (for the really competitive games). ArmA really doesn't fall into that category. More content would be nice, but heavy modification makes for a chaotic, inconsistent player experience where players aren't looking for such a thing.Seeing that ArmA is supposed to have a decent degree of realism, not being an arcade, arena or competitive tactical shooter, you shouldn't have to mod things to get a respectable amount of realism.

What is so unrealistic about this new stamina system?

[Kryptongame 14]

Wrong, it has to be realistic, you just disable it to fit your casualness. No need for more mods for stuff like this.

 

Honestly, I think you bought the wrong game.

Yep thanks for telling me what games don't fit my interests

[Roddis 27]

• Tweaked: Slowed down aiming precision deterioration and regeneration to 40% of former value to make it more of a long term effect

 

• Tweaked: Hold breath is now less effective at stabilizing lateral sway. Temporal sway distortion upon turning around with weapon should be more responsive.

 

My shit english prevent me to understand exactly these sentences. Can someone explain me in much words?

 

• Tweaked: Increased weights of various heavier weapons and magazines to limit certain equipment compositions

Good. It's exactly what i would desire.

Although, i try to aim in Arsenal with a mk200, naked with only a Slash Bandolier and one magazine, reaching 70% fatigue, crounch and then hold breath and i find out:

 

- It's always too simple, ever for a so bad aim skilled player like me, aim with a relative heavier weapon in such bad condition. So, IMO, there isn't yet adequate reward to choice a little weapon instead of bigger one, or to use a bigger one in a right manner.

 

- Seem to be possible to hold breath indefinitely. This is very unreal. I think hold breath have to lead to exhaustion. 

[Beagle 684]

 

- It's always too simple, ever for a so bad aim skilled player like me, aim with a relative heavier weapon in such bad condition. So, IMO, there isn't yet adequate reward to choice a little weapon instead of bigger one, or to use a bigger one in a right manner.

 

 

In the real world the heavier Weapon always is easier to aim and keep the aim in rapid fire with due to it's own inertia. For that reason sporting pistols and rifles weight a lot more than those for hunting or military uses. My .22lr match rifle has a weight of 6200 gramms and my .22lr match pistol weights 1350 gramms, while a 9mm Glock is only 705 gramms and my Hunting rifle only weights 4200 gramms including scope. The reason why you don't notice any recoil firing a MG3 on bipod in burts is it's own weight of 11 kilogramms. A heavy weapon must have less sway by its own nature.

[ppitm 43]

What is so unrealistic about this new stamina system? 

 

 

That soldier is running at 8.5 miles per hour, indefinitely, while carrying a rifle, ammo and wearing heavy boots and body armor. 8.5 mph is a 7-minute mile.

 

How many 7-minute miles can you run with 50 pounds on your back?

[haleks 8212]

 

That soldier is running at 8.5 miles per hour, indefinitely, while carrying a rifle, ammo and wearing heavy boots and body armor. 8.5 mph is a 7-minute mile.

 

How many 7-minute miles can you run with 50 pounds on your back?

10 seconds showing how ridiculous the new system is.

Nuff said.

[five_seven5-7 56]

Like i said before penalize the player in red status, in that video he should had 200 bpm with a begin of heart attack lol

[stburr91 1009]

 

That soldier is running at 8.5 miles per hour, indefinitely, while carrying a rifle, ammo and wearing heavy boots and body armor. 8.5 mph is a 7-minute mile.

 

How many 7-minute miles can you run with 50 pounds on your back?

 

Yes, but only being able to jog a 150 meters before becoming so exhausted that you can barely move, (even while taking fire) is equally unrealistic. 

 

Rangers are required to do road march for 12-miles with rucksack filled to 1/3 of your body weight, or 60 lbs, whichever is greater, in 3 hours. That's 4 mph, for 3 hours straight, and still expected to be to be combat effective.

 

There's got to be some middle ground, where it's somewhat realistic, and still fun at the same time.

[roshnak 41]

Yes, but only being able to jog a 150 meters before becoming so exhausted that you can barely move, (even while taking fire) is equally unrealistic.

 

This was never a thing that happened in Arma. With the default AT Specialist loadout at 89% maximum load you can jog with your weapon up for approximately 210 meters before you start to slow down. It takes roughly 530 meters before you are forced to a walking pace of 7 km/h, which still quicker than the default walk speed.

 

Rangers are required to do road march for 12-miles with rucksack filled to 1/3 of your body weight, or 60 lbs, whichever is greater, in 3 hours. That's 4 mph, for 3 hours straight, and still expected to be to be combat effective.

 

There's got to be some middle ground, where it's somewhat realistic, and still fun at the same time.

 

4 miles per hour is a little under 6.5 km/h, which is only 1.5 km/h faster than the default Arma walk speed of 5 km/h, which still accomplishes a 12 mile run in just under 4 hours. You can walk in Arma forever at any load and actually lower your fatigue value while doing it. While I acknowledge that it would be pretty annoying to have to continually switch movement speeds, it should be no problem to (probably significantly) outpace 12 miles in 3 hours in Arma 3, and be fully rested at the end of it, under the fatigue system.

 

Edit: Actually, I just did a quick test,  just jogging until you start to slow down and then walking until your fatigue level drops back down to zero, it should be possible to cover 12 miles in about 2 hours at 99% load.

 

Basically even stuff that seems like it would be hard for actual soldiers to do in real life has a tendency to feel slow and unimpressive in video games.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Yeah many people don't understand that the Arma 3 character actually passes those tests, you just might need to slow down to walking speed to catch your breath for harder tests. And if the test doesn't require to have gun in your hand but it needs to be with you, you could've put it in backpack or take binoculars in your hand and pass even hardest tests easily.

Arma 3 character is actually in a good fit with the old fatigue.

[froggyluv 2136]

 Lol, 4 mph is slow as snail shit. Seriously some of these gamers need to put down their mouse and throw on a pair of running kicks and learn the difference between sprinting and trotting -its huge.

[arkhir 135]

How about making some scripting commands that work exactly like setUnitRecoilCoefficient, but for fatigue and stamina? With 0 it would be possible to make your character run indefinitely.

[Varanon 892]

What is so unrealistic about this new stamina system?

You can still run as if you were fresh, even though you have no stamina left.

 

Even though the animation slowdown was not the best, slowing down under low stamina is an absolute MUST. Otherwise, you can always just run away from every situation. The fact that this is not good for gameplay has been shown in Dyslexci's video.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Could you make the lowered weapon combat pace jog less exhausting than the normal? Now you don't want to use that because it's slower and you get more fatigued in the same distance as normal jogging. Weapon up of course is tiring but the lowered one should be maybe the best option for jogging if you want to save stamina and you don't need to get faster from point A to point B. At least tweak it in the level of the normal jog if you don't want to make it as the best option because naturally you can't access that pace without a gun in your hand. Or the best would be naturally having more running animations :P

[Kryptongame 14]

You can still run as if you were fresh, even though you have no stamina left.

 

Even though the animation slowdown was not the best, slowing down under low stamina is an absolute MUST. Otherwise, you can always just run away from every situation. The fact that this is not good for gameplay has been shown in Dyslexci's video.

Running as if fresh is a full blown sprint no? So no, you can't full sprint when you're out of stamina, so I don't understand your point. You can jog indefinitely I believe, but that's far slower.

[roshnak 41]

Running as if fresh is a full blown sprint no? So no, you can't full sprint when you're out of stamina, so I don't understand your point. You can jog indefinitely I believe, but that's far slower.

 

No. A sprint is a sprint. Running is running.

[CaptainObvious 95]

Running as if fresh is a full blown sprint no? So no, you can't full sprint when you're out of stamina, so I don't understand your point. You can jog indefinitely I believe, but that's far slower.

 

Nitpicking isn't going to help you make a point, I'm sorry for you if you fail to see what's wrong with infinite jogging. 

[Alwarren 2767]

Running as if fresh is a full blown sprint no? So no, you can't full sprint when you're out of stamina, so I don't understand your point. You can jog indefinitely I believe, but that's far slower.

Running as in running, not sprinting. If you do not slow down, you will get away steadily. The point was, a recent Video by Dsyelxi showed how awesome a getaway can be IF you have to rest inbetween.

 

I don't expect you to understand that, you're obviously more for playing the run-and-gun game modes. We that prefer tactical and/or coop gameplay think differently.

 

So yeah, you can run forever without slowing down, nothing will ever FORCE you to rest UNLESS you want to shoot.

[roshnak 41]

I don't expect you to understand that, you're obviously more for playing the run-and-gun game modes. We that prefer tactical and/or coop gameplay think differently.

 

I'm not sure if it's really helpful or necessary to make assumptions about the kind of gameplay people prefer or to attack them for their prefered gameplay styles.

 

So yeah, you can run forever without slowing down, nothing will ever FORCE you to rest UNLESS you want to shoot.

 

I think this is a valid point. The stamina system penalizes players by impeding their ability to attack, but does little or nothing to impede players' ability to escape being attacked. Basically, taking an improper loadout might make it more difficult to shoot people, but you can still run away almost as well as everyone else. 

 

The fatigue system penalizes players who take bad loadouts by impeding their ability to both attack and evade by lowering their movement speed. In Arma, I prefer this option.

[Varanon 892]

Running as if fresh is a full blown sprint no? So no, you can't full sprint when you're out of stamina, so I don't understand your point. You can jog indefinitely I believe, but that's far slower.

No, running as in not walking. And I did quote the dyslexci video for good reason, so don't tell me you didn't get the point. I also mentioned the animation slowdown specifically, and we both know that is NOT related to sprinting.

[mjolnir66 48]

Just as a point as someone who has done the whole run to exhaustion with heavy kit on IRL (the perfect example being the 2 miler test, full combat gear, 2 miles, 18 minutes, cross country), I've seen it both in myself and others, animation slowdown is perfect. The more tired you are, the slower you move whether you realise it or not. You can literally get to the point where you are running but you'd actually be better off "slowing down" to a walk, because you are moving no faster, maybe even slower.

[twisted 128]

Just as a point as someone who has done the whole run to exhaustion with heavy kit on IRL (the perfect example being the 2 miler test, full combat gear, 2 miles, 18 minutes, cross country), I've seen it both in myself and others, animation slowdown is perfect. The more tired you are, the slower you move whether you realise it or not. You can literally get to the point where you are running but you'd actually be better off "slowing down" to a walk, because you are moving no faster, maybe even slower.

nice insight, but a proper animation set for that slowing down (if its implemented)  would go a long way.

[mjolnir66 48]

nice insight, but a proper animation set for that slowing down (if its implemented)  would go a long way.

 

You don't need a proper animation set. In real life it's exactly the same as in game, you go through the same motions just slower.