"Opening up Arma 3 to paid user-made content" - How?

[Tonci87 163]

@Maczer

It was not meant to offend you (my english can drive you crazy too ;)). I just have not seen anyone who actually writes like that.

Anyway, I believe the lack of donations is caused by the extra activity which you must do in current situation.

If it would be just one click "DONATE" in Steam + more "ads" about it (in steam or even in-game - something like the ARMA 3 DLC in-game ads) then things may change. However, I do not think I would donate if less than 50% would reach the modder...

That´s what I believe too, Steam would be a very convenient system for donations! You have your Steam wallet, you downloaded a Mod that you liked and you still have a few Euros in your wallet, you donate when presented with the opportunity, easy as that. In that case Steam should have a cut for themselves since they are doing all the transaction work.

It is my belief that donations currently don´t work that well because:

A: They are not presented/advertised well.

B: It´is unconvenient to have to deal with third parties, such as paypal to make a transaction.

Steam could make this into a blessing for modders and still make some money and all without fucking over the consumer or the modder (who is a consumer too). I have no idea why they went for this full retard approach that was bound to cause a massive shitstorm when they could have established a situation benefitting everybody.

[enex 11]

Regarding Skyrim paid addons issue, few things became apparent.

Steam needs to assist modders (legal issues, security, general questions)

Steam needs to set up form of security

Steam needs to set up quality control

In order to have modders generating founds they need to provide fair environment to do so.

What percentage goes where needs to be clear an emotionally fair if they want to succeed

in positive public opinion.As is now for Skyrim 30%valve 45%Bethesda 25% modder won't

win hearts and minds.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited April 27, 2015 by enex

[Tonci87 163]

[cosmic10r 2331]

Apr 27, 2015 —***Guys I cannot thank you enough of what has happened. We won with 133,013 signatures. It has been an honor to have hosted this petition for all of you. Without your support, we would never have achieved victory.

We have united and have won. We got Valve and Bethesda to roll back the paywall that they have created and saved our modding community.

I hope this shows that all of you that if you unite against something and truly to reach for the goal, you will achieve what you have set for.

I don't want to write too long. I thank you guys and congratulate you on this.

Just came across this , didn't see what they have done to roll it back but it is interesting

[gibonez 18]

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

I guess they saw that ultimately paid mods was a bad idea.

[PuFu 4600]

again, it's about implementation. read this as well - http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/

a note, great for everyone who signed that petition, it's good to see such a backlash moves a giant like valve

[gibonez 18]

a note, great for everyone who signed that petition, it's good to see such a backlash moves a giant like valve

I don't think I have ever seen the gaming community organize to the extent that it did in this case.

If anything it shows how passionate pc gamers are when it comes to modding. Hopefully some good comes out of this and more developers move to make modding more accessible.

[pd3 25]

again, it's about implementation. read this as well - http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/

a note, great for everyone who signed that petition, it's good to see such a backlash moves a giant like valve

I don't see how Valve is the bad guy here, as this whole system only works if the developers of the actual games are not only empowered, but voluntarily get involved.

The whole program got off to a very rough start, and I think Skyrim was just an awful, awful first choice for exposition. That was a screw-up, not an intentionally venal move by Valve.

You do recall that valve essentially licensed Id's technology and has worked with other modders WELL before steam was even a reality?

These guys went through the "licensed content" route the old hard way, back in the 90s, I genuinely think they mean well and I very much agree with that person in the article especially this quote:

"Talented hobbyists are beginning to become talented pros. As a gamer, I want that."

Yes, very much so, and as time has passed we've seen more people demonstrate superlative skill and dedication in creating content, and THOSE people should have easier avenues to receive a bit for their efforts.

However as everyone has said, it's a path fraught with dangerous consequences if not implemented properly.

[gammadust 12]

My lurking since ages was brought to an end. I wouldn't expect it would be Valve's move the cause of it.

Bohemia Contest model won Valve "paid-for-mods-no-matter-how" model lost.

I'm relieved for now. I think we should be thanking skyrim community for having bit the hardest bullets for us.

[das attorney 858]

I think it will come in at some point for other games. Their statement only ever talks about "Skyrim Workshop".

Valve know they got it wrong, but I can't see this going away.

I'm not against modders getting some dosh, but the implementation was shitty.

[Macser 776]

but I can't see this going away

I agree. These were probably just the opening salvoes. :)

[x3kj 1247]

Bohemia Contest model won Valve "paid-for-mods-no-matter-how" model lost.

I think the 2 things are a bit different... Bohemia basically outsourced reasearch&development with that contest. They where looking for new ideas (in the hope for a second dayz like success i guess?). Of course it motivated other mods but i doubt they would have done it just to promote modding - because there where already enough projects going

I'm not against modders getting some dosh, but the implementation was shitty.

it was particulary shitty to implement it into an old game that already had tons of mods. If you start it with a new game from the get go, rampant stealing will propably not occur that easily.

[das attorney 858]

it was particulary shitty to implement it into an old game that already had tons of mods. If you start it with a new game from the get go, rampant stealing will propably not occur that easily.

Exactly

[tortuosit 486]

Lets sum up the ugly side of the truth. Valve very well knows how to make money. It was simply about routing external money to the gaming industry. This is perfectly alright. One part of the target audience - Computer gaming addicts with no/not enough jobs, are dreaming about an alternative income for their lives. They are wrong. It will not pay out. They think they are some kind of self employed. Self employed? ROTFL. After all, IT WILL NOT PAY OUT. My experience. They should sort their own lives out instead of helping big companies to profit. Yes, that means less time for gaming.

Edited April 28, 2015 by tortuosit

[roshnak 41]

Lets sum up the ugly side of the truth. Valve very well knows how to make money. It was simply about routing external money to the gaming industry. This is perfectly alright. One part of the target audience - Computer gaming addicts with no/not enough jobs, are dreaming about an alternative income for their lives. They are wrong. It will not pay out. They think they are some kind of self employed. Self employed? ROTFL. After all, IT WILL NOT PAY OUT. My experience. They should sort their own lives out instead of helping big companies to profit. Yes, that means less time for gaming.

This is a pretty misinformed opinion, dude. The skills involved in many kinds of modding are the same skills used in the industry, and they have nothing to do with playing video games.

[CHB68 10]

AMEN....

P.S.: You already know Beth?

Edited April 28, 2015 by CHB68

[Rydygier 1309]

Well, let's hope this experiment will be used as valuable lesson/experience source for further improved approach by them/others, not as a (wrong) reason for abandoning the whole idea. BTW IMO they could (unless they couldn't) first try to adjust things before closing, at least for more data to digest, because to me this looks a bit like they rather chickened out under pressure than made a well considered decision.

[twisted 128]

Valve made the right decision.

[rübe 127]

Well, let's hope this experiment will be used as valuable lesson/experience source for further improved approach by them/others, not as a (wrong) reason for abandoning the whole idea.

They show no intentions of abandoning the idea in general, and they surely will try it again, maybe successful this time. I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out eventually...

BTW IMO they could (unless they couldn't) first try to adjust things before closing, at least for more data to digest, because to me this looks a bit like they rather chickened out under pressure than made a well considered decision.

There was no data to "digest", nothing to "adjust", and they didn't "chicken out" either. They simply made the critical mistake of introducing this idea to an old/already established game, with already plenty of mods and everything your hearth desires. That simply can't go over well. But I'm pretty sure they've learned this lesson by now. Watch out for new/fresh games hitting steam. :p

I guess this also means no such thing for Arma3, but maybe for Arma4, in a year or two or what not.

[tortuosit 486]

This is a pretty misinformed opinion, dude. The skills involved in many kinds of modding are the same skills used in the industry, and they have nothing to do with playing video games.

No, not at all misinformed, but one relevant side of the coin. Not even the same skills, sometimes you find less skills in "real" jobs. I'm working in a well known large company, with some IT people who were mechanics - but in the golden age of IT, where there were not many people, they needed them. E.g. Lotus Notes people. Now some of them never were real IT people, not even interested in such things. Skills? Knowing a bit about server administration, writing some scripts, a joke compared to many games scripting languages and what modders do. But, relevant point: It pays out. More than you may guess. Earning money as a kind of self employed modder will most likely (in most cases!) not only not pay out, but harm you in the future. That's the point. People in my company, who have not enough clue, laugh loud, hire self employed or students to get the job done. Everyone is a manager, you know... And have a safe life once they are old and out of job. And let others work.

Wealth and prosperity through scripting, home work, being self employed, with things you like and maybe are/were your hobby: cloud cuckoo land with high probability.

[kireta21 13]

Well, let's hope this experiment will be used as valuable lesson/experience source for further improved approach by them/others, not as a (wrong) reason for abandoning the whole idea. BTW IMO they could (unless they couldn't) first try to adjust things before closing, at least for more data to digest, because to me this looks a bit like they rather chickened out under pressure than made a well considered decision.

Valve is retreating for now, but retreating enemy often turns out to be only regrouping or flanking. There's little doubt they'll be back. Who would resist idea of making money off other's work, if he could get away with it?

"Adjusting" things would require heavy changes to workshop itself, firing likely most of current moderation beign first priority, and changing policy regarding stolen content from "don't ask, don't tell" to swift and mercilles as it is with cheaters caught by VAC

[Rydygier 1309]

There was no data to "digest", nothing to "adjust",

Adjusting - most criticized rules. Like % or "milestone" way of paying or implementing something for better quality control or anti-theft solutions.

Data - what would change in the feedback after such adjusting. What will change in time - if habits are an issue - those are changing in time.

IMO their official reasoning - resistance of "fossilized" community, isn't quite valid. Sure, it's powerful factor, but not a crucial one as for factual side of the topic - IMO if made in wise way in time a change could make through, gaining in time reasonable level of acceptation. Why? Because this resistance due to old habits has no really substancial foundation, as for the core idea (quite opposite as for "adjustable" rules) - it's based only on human psyche flaws/limitations. In the same time availability of monetizing own work has strong factual fundation, as simply fair - ethical. Hence I got that "chickening out" impression - premature retreat without hard reason - overreaction. Only an impression though. They had whole picture, I hadn't. And they may have quite other motivations to change things ($), than those motivations, that could justify more persistence here. From pure, short-ranged $ point of view tactical retreat might be optimal.

But whatever. They did, what they did.

I guess this also means no such thing for Arma3, but maybe for Arma4, in a year or two or what not.

Well, if we/they follow same reasoning - no chance, because Arma community is as a whole some meta-continuity, integral across consecutive Arma iterations. It's 14 or so years old. And, as we see also here, also in big part highly accustomed to the status quo to the point, any change seem a diseaster - 14 years old habits can seriously narrow one's views on things and set rigid attitude toward any changes. Some people just will keep repeating "it has to be a hobby and that means, it has to be for nothing or we're doomed and why to change, what worked well so long" stuff. It seems obvious, if such change have to be made, it, apart of wisdom to choose optimal solution, needs courage and consistency in decisions made, not fleeing at first resistance encountered. Old habits/obsolete, narrow-minded thinking has to be defeated "by force" of time and fait accompli. Of course even worse case with the people, that for some reason got thinking, so they "deserve" mods for free just because. That's IMHO.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Rydygier

[kazenokizu 10]

well im ok with people getting paid for the work they do. im also ok with geting paid for the work i do. but i don't think i would charge for anything unless it is a custom requested mod. even then it is a matter of what u willing to pay ? and then being ok with that amount or not :P

[Macser 776]

@tortuosit

There was a time that art, in it's many forms wasn't considered a way to make a living. And it didn't pay well for the majority. Many people do make a living out of it of course. Possibly more now than ever before.Despite being told to get a "real" job by some who still think it's a "hobby".

Things change. Too slowly for some. Too fast for others. It happens nonetheless.

[chrisb 196]

Interesting: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33x0zj/i_make_a_fulltime_living_from_the_steam_workshop/

Its not new really, just needs doing right, probably away from Steam.