Is the game dumbed down?

[Cyper 18]

Well I have heard stories and I remember the Alpha Light. BIS focusing more on authetic gameplay, not realistic. It's basically in Sion Lenton's own words. Weapons being designed using the same rounds as in similar weapons.

Extended armour. Enemies that, at least in Alpha, was to slow in close range combat. Healing is faster than in Dragon Rising. Not to forget the fact that I will probably see these DayZ player's tomorrow when I bring my copy of ARMA III. They're going to stand in the line smiling, like if they were a part of the community, but they are not. They may aswell ruin my whole multiplayer experience. And I am going to tell them my opinion about DayZ and what bad things it have brought upon arma; cheaters, hackers, annoying kids, and people with the wrong mindset. A Game employee asked me today if I bought it for DayZ. I said: ''No, it's rather the opposite, I don't know if I want the game because of DayZ. It's a mod bringing horrible people to the arma community. It's better without it. The only good thing is that it's a cashcow''. That was a spontaneous reply, and it holds the truth and I never used any fancy words. I expressed my feelings directly.

Obviously, ARMA 3 have become more complex in other ways, but what more than that? It's scary how casual gamers are making demands like if they had a right to.

What more is it that have been simplified? What have been changed since ALPHA LIGHT?

Edited September 11, 2013 by Cyper

[VariousArtist 19]

Youre so right... It will never be again like it never was before....

[Smurf 12]

Extended armor is a difficulty setting. AI is deadly on close ranges now. Healing is the same as Alpha.

(Unecessary) DayZ rant aside, what else is worst or dumbed down now for you?

[katipo66 94]

probably best to let go and move on, like the game has.

[dmarkwick 261]

What more is it that have been simplified? What have been changed since ALPHA LIGHT?

So I guess you're only interested in the negative. Another complaint thread. It seems like your mind is made up, time to move on perhaps? :)

[chortles 263]

What Smurf said -- and "extended armor" has been in since Arma 2 at least, so Arma 3 isn't even worse than Arma 2 in that respect. (If you think it worse than Arma 2 for not taking that out... at this point BI seems to be on a "more options, not less" trajectory.)

[dissaifer 10]

Lots of things pop up in my head when I read this like "What is so complicated about shooting a gun?" unless you are really excited about gun cleaning, fire safeties, and weapon jams.

But that is besides the point. Complexity does not equal excellence, usually it is the opposite.

You mentioned that healing takes less time then in Dragon Rising. My question to you then is this... would the game be better if you had to wait 30 seconds for that heal? Or only medics could heal it? Or the wound you had couldn't be healed and you had to gimp along the battlefield for an hour before the game ended?

Honestly, you may say yes. Here is a different perspective... would a person playing a single player game want to wait that long? I wouldn't, that is a reload of the last save for me and we all know that is annoying. But that is the thing, that is a design choice for the vanilla game. ACE is probably going to come out, or some detailed medical mod, that will allow you to make it as complicated as you want.

[caico1983 10]

ACE is probably going to come out, or some detailed medical mod, that will allow you to make it as complicated as you want.

I agree with Dissaifer.

I think ARMA 3 already are and will be even more a huge step forward. The game can fit those who wants a casual and easier gameplay with vanila game, or those milsim ARMA2-ACE-ACRE fans with realistic mods (acre-TMR-JSRS, etc ... more will come) and improved engine (graphics, animations, physics).

[zukov 484]

Well I have heard stories and I remember the Alpha Light. BIS focusing more on authetic gameplay, not realistic. It's basically in Sion Lenton's own words. Weapons being designed using the same rounds as in similar weapons.

Extended armour. Enemies that, at least in Alpha, was to slow in close range combat. Healing is faster than in Dragon Rising. Not to forget the fact that I will probably see these DayZ player's tomorrow when I bring my copy of ARMA III. They're going to stand in the line smiling, like if they were a part of the community, but they are not. They may aswell ruin my whole multiplayer experience. And I am going to tell them my opinion about DayZ and what bad things it have brought upon arma; cheaters, hackers, annoying kids, and people with the wrong mindset. A Game employee asked me today if I bought it for DayZ. I said: ''No, it's rather the opposite, I don't know if I want the game because of DayZ. It's a mod bringing horrible people to the arma community. It's better without it. The only good thing is that it's a cashcow''. That was a spontaneous reply, and it holds the truth and I never used any fancy words. I expressed my feelings directly.

Obviously, ARMA 3 have become more complex in other ways, but what more than that? It's scary how casual gamers are making demands like if they had a right to.

What more is it that have been simplified? What have been changed since ALPHA LIGHT?

is not simplified, now ARMA is PLAYABLE!!!

the only things that hurt me are the lack (and lack in some details) in certain animations

plus the lack in development in the MP part

[OrLoK 20]

Well I have heard stories and I remember the Alpha Light. BIS focusing more on authetic gameplay, not realistic. It's basically in Sion Lenton's own words. Weapons being designed using the same rounds as in similar weapons.

That's standard even now.

Not to forget the fact that I will probably see these DayZ player's tomorrow when I bring my copy of ARMA III. They're going to stand in the line smiling, like if they were a part of the community, but they are not.

Im a DAYZ player and Ive been part of this community for many years. The two are not mutually exclusive.

They may aswell ruin my whole multiplayer experience. And I am going to tell them my opinion about DayZ and what bad things it have brought upon arma; cheaters, hackers, annoying kids, and people with the wrong mindset. A Game employee asked me today if I bought it for DayZ. I said: ''No, it's rather the opposite, I don't know if I want the game because of DayZ. It's a mod bringing horrible people to the arma community. It's better without it. The only good thing is that it's a cashcow''. That was a spontaneous reply, and it holds the truth and I never used any fancy words. I expressed my feelings directly.

Well that's your opinion, but to me its incorrect and a little blinkered.

Obviously, ARMA 3 have become more complex in other ways, but what more than that? It's scary how casual gamers are making demands like if they had a right to.

Everyone on the forum is allowed their opinion, its down to the devs how they design their game.

What more is it that have been simplified? What have been changed since ALPHA LIGHT?

I dont understand this last sentence.

Dont forget A2 is still alive and kicking, you can always stay with that game if you really feel A3 will be full of DAYZ players like myself.

Ive played on many servers in my time, and even the most realistic of groups can still be childish and unfriendly, I think youre tarring everyone with the same brush.

Rgds

LoK

[dm 9]

It's scary how casual gamers are making demands like if they had a right to.

Its pretty funny how anyone is making demands as if they had a right to.

Protip: no one has the right to demand changes to A3 unless they're leads/managers at BI. All "community" members can do is request changes. And requests often go unfulfilled.

[metalcraze 290]

For people who say it's not dumbed down here's a short list:

- Exactly the same warring factions,

- FAKs (what else to add here?), medics that heal you in 3 seconds via magical handwaving while you can just walk away shooting and still get healed

- One man army supersoldiers running up 70 degree slopes even backwards while wearing 100 kgs loadouts that include antimateriel sniper rifle, fire n forget rocket launcher and a backpack filled with ammo and rockets

- No punishment for carrying ridiculous loads whatsoever apart from annoying visual effects

- What seems to be lowered damage system - that incl. being able to jump from a roof with a ridiculous load which doesn't kill you

- Backpacks are just magical extension of carry space

- Arcade shooter movement where soldier loses no momentum while sprinting and doing insta-turns and can instantly turn 180 degrees while sitting on his ass let alone while prone

- Cars and multi-ton tanks auto-flip back onto their wheels/tracks

- No blinding sun

Sure for arcade shooter fans it's a step forward but for people who liked realistic OFP/ArmA1/ArmA2 gameplay it's a huge leap in a very wrong direction

BIS even broke aiming deadzone and don't want to fix it (marking the ticket as resolved even though it's not). Duh arcade shooter players have their weapon forced to the center of the screen, who cares what those other people want?

Edited September 11, 2013 by metalcraze

[Sealife 22]

For people who say it's not dumbed down here's a short list:

- Exactly the same warring factions,

- FAKs (what else to add here?), medics that heal you in 3 seconds via magical handwaving while you can just walk away shooting and still get healed

- One man army supersoldiers running up 70 degree slopes even backwards while wearing 100 kgs loadouts that include antimateriel sniper rifle, fire n forget rocket launcher and a backpack filled with ammo and rockets

- No punishment for carrying ridiculous loads whatsoever apart from annoying visual effects

- What seems to be lowered damage system - that incl. being able to jump from a roof with a ridiculous load which doesn't kill you

- Backpacks are just magical extension of carry space

- Arcade shooter movement where soldier loses no momentum while sprinting and doing insta-turns and can instantly turn 180 degrees while sitting on his ass let alone while prone

- Cars and multi-ton tanks auto-flip back onto their wheels/tracks

- No blinding sun

Sure for arcade shooter fans it's a step forward but for people who liked realistic OFP/ArmA1/ArmA2 gameplay it's a huge leap in a very wrong direction

May i ask what version you are running , i have just exited a game where i couldnt climb a slope because it was to steep and i was running so slow i took off my gear and i achieved more speed .

i dont recognise any of those point you have made apart fom the early physx pobem of course but i think it has to be that way for nw because flipping to asy and return is better than flipping to easy and having to abandon , the latter being a mission breaker the former not of course , I am on Dev version , is your list from stable ?

cheers

[dale0404 5]

I sometimes wonder if metalcraze has updated his version of A3 since Alpha...

[metalcraze 290]

I've tested with the latest dev-branch and all of that is still there.

Care to tell me which of those points isn't true?

And yes I was able to put on a ridiculous load and run up that mountain with radio antennas near Kavala like nothing ever mattered.

[dm 9]

- Exactly the same warring factions,

I assume you mean the whole "copy paste" thing here, but its not really that different to A2, A1 or OFP, where both sides had comparable equipment. OA was different, because it was high-tech US vs towel-head takis.

- FAKs (what else to add here?), medics that heal you in 3 seconds via magical handwaving while you can just walk away shooting and still get healed

You mean the way the medics have always been in the series?

Not dumbed down, exactly the same as it was before.

- One man army supersoldiers running up 70 degree slopes even backwards while wearing 100 kgs loadouts that include antimateriel sniper rifle, fire n forget rocket launcher and a backpack filled with ammo and rockets

You mean the way its always been in the series? Sure you were limited by slot count in previous titles, but you could config anything you wanted.

Not dumbed down, exactly the same as it was before.

- No punishment for carrying ridiculous loads whatsoever apart from annoying visual effects

You mean the way it has always been in the series?

Not dumbed down, exactly the same as it was before.

- What seems to be lowered damage system - that incl. being able to jump from a roof with a ridiculous load which doesn't kill you

This is "new" I'll give you that.

- Backpacks are just magical extension of carry space

This is less than ideal, but then so is the whole gear access system - plop into a menu and you can instantly retrieve any piece of equipment from any part of your body? (Like that since OFP). Yes the backpacks in OA were good because you had to take them off to get into them (or access them on someone elses back).

- Arcade shooter movement where soldier loses no momentum while sprinting and can instantly turn 180 degrees while sitting on his ass let alone while prone

Only in this "community" would people ever prefer the clunky animation system of previous titles. Yes the inertia should be tuned, but at least you can actually play the game now, rather than fighting it.

- Cars and multi-ton tanks auto-flip back onto their wheels/tracks

At least you can actually FLIP them now. Unlike all previous titles.

- No blinding sun

The lack of sun blinding is less good, but the overall lighting is far more realistic. If you consider the old "HDR" as "realistic" I strongly suggest you go see an optician.

[lawndartleo 109]

1) Its a beta

2) ITS A BETA

3) lets not pass judgement on a... wait for it..... beta.

I'll confess that I, too, am not sold. Honestly, ArmA III has gotten me playing ArmA II again. Lest we forget, ArmA II was a steaming heap in the minds of many back in its infancy as well. With time and the efforts of the community, I think ArmA II will be just fine. Beta software can be a real drag and I think a lot of people learned that for the first time.

[metalcraze 290]

You mean the way it has always been in the series?

Not dumbed down, exactly the same as it was before.

You've missed a point where before in the series you weren't able to carry ridiculous loads. Why would you punish a trained soldier for carrying 30 kgs? It's a different thing when you carry 100.

I assume you mean the whole "copy paste" thing here, but its not really that different to A2, A1 or OFP, where both sides had comparable equipment. OA was different, because it was high-tech US vs towel-head takis.

Comparable equipment != exactly the same equipment down to ammo and even the same camo on weapon systems

You mean the way its always been in the series? Sure you were limited by slot count in previous titles, but you could config anything you wanted.

Not dumbed down, exactly the same as it was before.

In OFP/ArmA1/ArmA2 you were forced to walk on steep slopes. Slot limits prevented you from carrying completely ridiculous loads like you can now. And no you couldn't config anything you wanted when using slots.

You mean the way the medics have always been in the series?

Not dumbed down, exactly the same as it was before.

Just to refresh your memory - in previous games when medics were healing you even without the First Aid Module added in ArmA2 (and removed in ArmA3) you couldn't fight, you couldn't even move while medic was spending a good amount of time healing you effectively taking two of you out of combat. There also never were any FAKs that completely replace medics.

With First Aid Module consequences for getting shot were even harsher and healing could take up to 30 seconds. But you see you also had an option to choose between a more forgiving OFP system and a more punishing ArmA2 system. In ArmA3 you have only one option and it's arcade.

This is less than ideal, but then so is the whole gear access system - plop into a menu and you can instantly retrieve any piece of equipment from any part of your body? (Like that since OFP). Yes the backpacks in OA were good because you had to take them off to get into them (or access them on someone elses back).

The problem is that you don't even need to open the inventory. Just put on a backpack, fill it with dozens of mags, never ever bother opening inventory screen ever again. You have instant access to all of them.

In OA on the other hand they were allowing you to carry more ammo and stuff but at a price of actually needing to open your inventory and take stuff out. It could've been done in a more comfortable way sure. But that was never a goal in A3.

At least you can actually FLIP them now. Unlike all previous titles.

No the point is that you can't flip them now.

And in previous games you actually can.

Are you actually arguing that tank flipping from its turret to its tracks in a very laughable way is an improvement?

Only in this "community" would people ever prefer the clunky animation system of previous titles. Yes the inertia should be tuned, but at least you can actually play the game now, rather than fighting it.

Did you see me talking about animation system? Somehow Battlefield 3 doesn't need negative mouse acceleration to not allow players insta-turning on a belly or force players to lose momentum while running and turning fast. Yes even BF3 has more realistic movement than ArmA3 now. How's that not dumbing down?

It's even more ridiculous how a father of Jay Crowe's favorite "authenticity" buzzword - Medal Of Honor doesn't even allow you to side-strafe while sprinting and turning is limited in speed (yes that's how it is in its MP too). While "authentic" ArmA3 is even less authentic than MoH 2010.

Edited September 11, 2013 by metalcraze

[Variable 322]

I assume you mean the whole "copy paste" thing here, but its not really that different to A2, A1 or OFP, where both sides had comparable equipment. OA was different, because it was high-tech US vs towel-head takis.

Just a lame excuse for mirroring equipment. Armies don't have the exact same weapons and vehicle features just with the same skin even if they are equally advanced. If you can't see the problem in A3 in this respoect you are simply short sighted. I mean, how can you SUPPORT it?!

You mean the way the medics have always been in the series? Not dumbed down, exactly the same as it was before.

The FAK is a new addition to the series, and it dumbs down the game even compared to Dragon Rising which had more complex first aid system. In Arma 3 you can just shoot your way through keeping yourself at 80% (or whatever) health.

You mean the way its always been in the series? Sure you were limited by slot count in previous titles, but you could config anything you wanted.

So you expect us to config the game to meet realistic load values? Pardon me, but the only way to discuss this is to refer to the base game and not modded.

Only in this "community" would people ever prefer the clunky animation system of previous titles. Yes the inertia should be tuned, but at least you can actually play the game now, rather than fighting it.

Never felt like I "fight" Arma 2. and the inertia (or lack of) is so ridiculous in Arma 3 that I actually prefer Arma 2 system. The new movement system was simply implemented with too big of a price to pay in terms of inertia.

At least you can actually FLIP them now. Unlike all previous titles.

What? No, you can't flip a vehicle in Arma 3. That's the problem. you can drive as reckleslly as you can get and still won't pay a price. And THAT we get from a company that is proud on the new Physx. I rather have no Physx if that's the deal.

The lack of sun blinding is less good, but the overall lighting is far more realistic. If you consider the old "HDR" as "realistic" I strongly suggest you go see an optician.

I like the new lighting but the lack of actual sun blindness removed an important tactical consideration from the game, and that's just sad.

[dmarkwick 261]

FAKs can of course be removed by mission designers for the would-be FAKless. However its a great complaint point to raise again & again endlessly, and refuse to believe that mission designers would ever do that.

[dale0404 5]

I like the new lighting but the lack of actual sun blindness removed an important tactical consideration from the game, and that's just sad.

Got to agree on this point Variable, it can and should be a tactical consideration for A3.

[Deadfast 43]

Extended armour.

[Sealife 22]

I've tested with the latest dev-branch and all of that is still there.

so in your version you dont stop sprinting easy with a load on and i you take it of you can sprint longer ?

it just happend to me again , i thought it was Weight as eveything in config now has a mass value ?

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Haha all this DayZ hatred cracks me up. Get over yourself dude.

[Variable 322]

FAKs can of course be removed by mission designers for the would-be FAKless. However its a great complaint point to raise again & again endlessly, and refuse to believe that mission designers would ever do that.

Honestly, how many you think will actually do that? Most mission makers use the default loadout which include them, meaning most of the missions released will use this degrading feature. Wouldn't you agree?

Not to mention the lack of BIS first aid system which in my opinion was great.