Is the game dumbed down?

[zukov 490]

if thats what you call "dumbed down", then i have no idea

this game is not Dumbed down but the workflow behind, is terrible

in today dev branch patch Bis has changed gunner HUD in both MBT but on T100 the gun is still named 120 mm instead 135 mm. This no attention to detail, show to us the bad direction to this game

[dm 9]

I'm sorry zukov, how many games have you published exactly?

on T100 the gun is still named 120 mm instead 135 mm. This no attention to detail

Well the Tank is configured with a 120mm gun, so the display name is correct.

I think you mean 125mm, as is common on Russian T- series tanks, right?

And you talk about attention to detail...

Edited September 17, 2013 by DM

[royaltyinexile 175]

This no attention to detail, show to us the bad direction to this game

Please take time to read and understand the development branch statement and carefully decide if it is the right branch for you to take part in.

You're signed up to the development branch of the game; content and technology is subject to change and may still contain errors / lack certain features.

We welcome feedback, but we kindly request dev-branch participants recognise that it is a work-in-progress. :)

Best,

RiE

Edited September 17, 2013 by RoyaltyinExile

[zukov 490]

I think you mean 125mm, as is common on Russian T- series tanks, right?

on the game guide has written 135 mm

Please take time to read and understand the development branch statement and carefully decide if it is the right branch for you to take part in.

I'm sorry zukov, how many games have you published exactly?

this is not a bug, is lack of the attention IMHO, like the T100 that i believe (hope) is a placeholder

Edited September 17, 2013 by Zukov

[majoris 10]

I've been staying away from feedback on the game, but here goes:

The development team invested entirely too much time and too many resources in Altis. They tried to set records, outcompete mainstream games, and garner as much attention and publicity as possible simply through level design. The island is the flagship of the game, it's fantastic in every way possible, but what good is that when the game is marketed as a "sandbox" and players have very little content to work with? A huge, pretty island will get you articles on PC Gamer, but it won't win you any long-term fans and players.

Players can go without a campaign. It's a sandbox and marketed that way, after all. But the tools to take full advantage of that sandbox environment are entirely absent. It's still not even possible to retexture 75% of the vehicles because "hiddenselectiontextures" aren't active on many of them. As an addon maker, I've torn apart just about every .pbo included with Arma3, and all suggest copy/paste work with little time or effort invested in achieving a futuristic setting or accurately depicting the factions of the game. There's simply no variety in the game, and to be honest, most of us are already bored with the stock content - and the game has only been out for a few days!

In short, the setting of the game - NATO vs. CSAT - appears a bit half-assed simply because very little resources or creative effort were put towards realizing that crucial aspect. Mortars/MG's with the same name, same model, factions with only 1 APC, there's only 1 fixed-wing aircraft, etc.

Another point regarding Altis, since apparently it's the only thing BIS invested its artwork resources in - what purpose does the large size have? What benefit does the scale of the game bring to players, when MP gameplay (really the only avenue to take advantage of the islands size) slows performance down to a crawl? Unless you're commanding entire divisions of tanks/infantry (which Arma3 can't handle), there's no benefit to the size of the island other than eye candy.

Just a bit irritated, my two cents....

[NeuroFunker 11]

most of us are already bored with the stock content - and the game has only been out for a few days!

most of whom? Be more specific and don't forget, thats your opinion, and not a fact. I have about 14 friends playing arma 3. Except some of them having crashes, i have never heard them say much negative about arma 3. Nobody yet said: this game lacks on content, i hate futuristic setting, i'm already tired of arma 3 or all the common compailns on the forums. Maybe i have wrong friends?

[majoris 10]

most of whom? Be more specific and don't forget, thats your opinion, and not a fact. I have about 14 friends playing arma 3. Except some of them having crashes, i have never heard them say much negative about arma 3. Nobody yet said: this game lacks on content, i hate futuristic setting, i'm already tired of arma 3 or all the common compailns on the forums. Maybe i have wrong friends?

Maybe so! You can see recurring themes within the community in regards to Arma3 feedback - content is certainly at the top of the list. I don't see how that's really up for debate (unless, of course, you didn't play the Alpha or Beta and the official release was the first time you set eyes on the game). There's also nothing wrong with the futuristic setting, you would just expect that a game that "goes out on a limb" in terms of approaching a new, borderline-plausible setting would follow through with delivery.

To make my criticism more constructive:

- Altis needs no more attention, it was a distraction from many other significant parts of the game and it shows.

- Performance optimization to reduce inconsistency. Altis is great when you're flying around solo in the editor, but playing MP (or any other scenario allowing you to actually take advantage of the games scale) drops FPS like a sack of potatoes.

- Focus on game content and enabling players to take advantage of that content within a sandbox environment. Many games have huge, playable areas; few allow their players to make use of it.

- Focus on theme and setting. There's hardly any back story or creative consistency with the units and objects in the game.

- The modding community will keep the game afloat until new DLC's are released, so allow them to do what they do best - create! Enabling "hiddenselectiontextures" for all vehicles would be a start.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Maybe so! You can see recurring themes within the community in regards to Arma3 feedback - content is certainly at the top of the list. I don't see how that's really up for debate (unless, of course, you didn't play the Alpha or Beta and the official release was the first time you set eyes on the game). There's also nothing wrong with the futuristic setting, you would just expect that a game that "goes out on a limb" in terms of approaching a new, borderline-plausible setting would follow through with delivery.

To make my criticism more constructive:

- Altis needs no more attention, it was a distraction from many other significant parts of the game and it shows.

- Performance optimization to reduce inconsistency. Altis is great when you're flying around solo in the editor, but playing MP (or any other scenario allowing you to actually take advantage of the games scale) drops FPS like a sack of potatoes.

- Focus on game content and enabling players to take advantage of that content within a sandbox environment. Many games have huge, playable areas; few allow their players to make use of it.

- Focus on theme and setting. There's hardly any back story or creative consistency with the units and objects in the game.

- The modding community will keep the game afloat until new DLC's are released, so allow them to do what they do best - create! Enabling "hiddenselectiontextures" for all vehicles would be a start.

don't you think, this 2 are not related? ;) Bis will focus on game content now, as told in latest sitrep, 2 jets are being worked on. Same about story - free dlc campaign episodes coming. The last you can't argue with - arma is one of few games, which has that huge and talented modding community, no doubt they will!

[Phantom Six 25]

most of whom? Be more specific and don't forget, thats your opinion, and not a fact. I have about 14 friends playing arma 3. Except some of them having crashes, i have never heard them say much negative about arma 3. Nobody yet said: this game lacks on content, i hate futuristic setting, i'm already tired of arma 3 or all the common compailns on the forums. Maybe i have wrong friends?

Look at the reality check thread and in all the pictures, the vehicles are practically same models, reskinned for each faction. For an addon maker, what kind of diversity is there to make for such and then a mission maker, the type of interesting scenarios has been reduced since there's not as much goodies to play around with.

One of the thing that has been bothering me for a long time is no First Aid Modules since it has been replaced by FAKs where you can instantly heal yourself to 75% health which is enough to get up and run again rendering the medic useless (besides being a 3 second healing machine). If FAKs take a while to use and only serve the purpose of stopping bleeding, I would be fine with that since you would need a medic, but in such case, the answer is, it doesn't.

As for most of whom, I for one, am bored... I haven't made any ARMA 3 missions yet since, at the moment, ARMA 2 has a lot more things for me to work with, ARMA 3 didn't. ARMA 3 FAK system to me is flawed, ARMA 2 First Aid Modules has its issue too but its much more better than FAK. Speaking of authentic, I find having first aid modules more authentic. Currently here and there, I'll make a few more ARMA 2 missions.

I'll admit, being able to attach objects and such on your weapons is a nicer feature over ARMA 2 and the stance/movements is a little nicer too, but for all of those new features added, there are some old good ones that has been stripped out and content decrease which reduce the diversity of missions I can create so far. I can think of far more interesting ones for ARMA 2 for the time being and even with ONLY vanilla content.

[byku 13]

Imo they should definitely improve medical system and limit turning speed in some poses(like prone). I like new optics in tanks(new optics in other vehicles would be also nice), but still waiting for coaxial gun for T-100(i hope it will get it). Anyway, i trust that Arma 3 will improve and they will not be afraid to go into realism(so some things will be a bit harder to learn or use). Anyway, i think they've focused before release mostly for graphics and accessibility because they knew that us fans would buy it anyway and new(bie) players would mostly look at graphics :| , and after release they would focus on improving the authentic/realistic part of Arma. At least I hope so :P. Anyway, GL BIS and be brave! :P

[NeuroFunker 11]

Yes, that is such a enjoyable experience, being hit and unable to move, and need to wait a medic to come and heal you. Especially that makes "much sense" in public games, where player medics, don't give a damn, about injured team mates. Now tell me, people would enjoy that. As ive been discussing yesterday, arma 3 HAD to be simplephiled at some parts, since in year 2013, not many people do play hardcore games a lot. But imo, BIS found quite good, not perfect balance.

[Phantom Six 25]

Yes, that is such a enjoyable experience, being hit and unable to move, and need to wait a medic to come and heal you. Especially that makes "much sense" in public games, where player medics, don't give a damn, about injured team mates. Now tell me, people would enjoy that. As ive been discussing yesterday, arma 3 HAD to be simplephiled at some parts, since in year 2013, not many people do play hardcore games a lot. But imo, BIS found quite good, not perfect balance.

How about the private hubs that do play as teams. Don't discriminate them for the sake of your public game where everyone run around like rambo shooting everything anyways. FAK is NOT a good balance. You already got your respawn button on public server... some of the good server will enforce it. As for being "simplephiled", it went too "simplephiled" with aspects. Why remove something that's there. At least have first aid modules still be available to use for the missions that will utilize it. Maybe some sort of bleeding module where FAKs just stop bleeding combined with some first aid modules and then have your typical public domination like servers not utilize it while a classic style coop mission can go ahead and utilize it.

[NeuroFunker 11]

How about the private hubs that do play as teams. Don't discriminate them for the sake of your public game where everyone run around like rambo shooting everything anyways. FAK is NOT a good balance. You already got your respawn button on public server... some of the good server will enforce it. As for being "simplephiled", it went too "simplephiled" with aspects. Why remove something that's there. At least have first aid modules still be available to use for the missions that will utilize it. Maybe some sort of bleeding module where FAKs just stop bleeding combined with some first aid modules and then have your typical public domination like servers not utilize it while a classic style coop mission can go ahead and utilize it.

for private hubs, there are and will be tons of mods, first aid included. I'm fine with current system, but BIS could make the healing not instant, but time based. Say about 5-10 minutes, untill you are healed to 75%.

[metalcraze 290]

if thats what you call "dumbed down", then i have no idea

So they tweaked a ballistic/penetration system that was in the series since OFP and I'm not exactly sure how it's different from ArmA2. Amazing.

Except bullets deal less damage now which is totally not dumbed down.

Yes, that is such a enjoyable experience, being hit and unable to move, and need to wait a medic to come and heal you. Especially that makes "much sense" in public games, where player medics, don't give a damn, about injured team mates. Now tell me, people would enjoy that. As ive been discussing yesterday, arma 3 HAD to be simplephiled at some parts, since in year 2013, not many people do play hardcore games a lot. But imo, BIS found quite good, not perfect balance.

That's why there was an option to not use First Aid Module on public servers.

But yeah public gamers don't want to have the teamwork, let's just dumb the game down for everyone completely removing the need for teamwork other than shooting the other guys together. Perfect solution.

arma 3 HAD to be simplephiled at some parts, since in year 2013, not many people do play hardcore games a lot

Care to link me to your reliable statistics source?

for private hubs, there are and will be tons of mods, first aid included.

Care to point me to such a mod? At least a single one? And no TPW Bleedout is not it.

Edited September 17, 2013 by metalcraze

[NeuroFunker 11]

So they tweaked a ballistic/penetration system that was in the series since OFP and I'm not exactly sure how it's different from ArmA2. Amazing.

That's why there was an option to not use First Aid Module on public servers.

But yeah public gamers don't want to have the teamwork, let's just dumb the game down for everyone. Perfect solution.

Care to link me to your reliable statistics source?

ah, here we meet, the most dissapointed arma fan today. ;D

So, you complain about the devs dumbed down the game, and yet someone says they didn't you say: oh, that was since ofp like that!

So, what are yout suggestions then? The game has 10% milsim fans, lets make it hardcore! Perfect solution.

Statistics? Ever run up modern games?

Care to point me to such a mod? At least a single one? And no TPW Bleedout is not it.

no idea what its name, it was included in some fan mission. But it's there, take a look at addons forums, if you are interested.

Edited September 17, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[youpplaremindnumbing 10]

Are people comparing the latest arma 2 with all the addons to arma 3 in terms of content?

[metalcraze 290]

So, you complain about the devs dumbed down the game, and yet someone says they didn't you say: oh, that was since ofp like that!

Perhaps you misread my post or any other but I never said they dumbed down ballistics. As fortunately it's not something they can do without the engine programmer and those are a rarity in ArmA3 land.

So, what are yout suggestions then? The game has 10% milsim fans, lets make it hardcore! Perfect solution.

Just link me to where you get your stats already. Because according to feedback tracker 75% want blinding sun back, 90% want proper realistic wounding and medic system, 90% want intertia/turn speed limits added back to sprinting and according to a recent poll 98% are against balancing of weapons and vehicles of any kind among other things.

no idea what its name, it was included in some fan mission. But it's there, take a look at addons forums, if you are interested.

This doesn't really help your argument you know?

[NeuroFunker 11]

Are people comparing the latest arma 2 with all the addons to arma 3 in terms of content?

some do yes. And probably some really don't know, when arma 2 came out.

---------- Post added at 20:15 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------

Perhaps you misread my post or any other but I never said they dumbed down ballistics. As fortunately it's not something they can do without the engine programmer and those are a rarity in ArmA3 land.

Just link me to where you get your stats already. Because according to feedback tracker 75% want blinding sun back, 90% want proper realistic wounding and medic system, 90% want intertia/turn speed limits added back to sprinting and according to a recent poll 98% are against balancing of weapons and vehicles of any kind among other things.

well, just by browsing arma 2 and arma 3 servers. Especially arma 2 ones show, that most people play wasteland, takistan/chernarus life etc. I don't think they need hardcore realism at all.

This doesn't really help your argument you know?

well, why not? You wanna say, i'm a liar or what?

[metalcraze 290]

well, just by browsing arma 2 and arma 3 servers. Especially arma 2 ones show, that most people play wasteland, takistan/chernarus life etc. I don't think they need hardcore realism at all.

If you want to disregard feedback tracker and forums let's play it your way. Let's compare their numbers to DayZ players. DayZ mod is infinitely more hardcore than any vanilla ArmA game ever was. 1.5 mln players either didn't care or appreciated it. And DayZ SA is going to be even more hardcore now judging by all the info we have.

Also the fact that ArmA2 is ridden with Wasteland servers proves once again that ArmA2's milsim level is not an issue.

But if we will just gonna be realistic - no you don't have any solid stats.

And FT certainly provides perspective with actual solid numbers.

well, why not? You wanna say, i'm a liar or what?

I'm not saying anything. But you sure like to pick your numbers out of thin air.

Edited September 17, 2013 by metalcraze

[NeuroFunker 11]

If you want to disregard feedback tracker and forums let's play it your way. Let's compare their numbers to DayZ players. DayZ mod is infinitely more hardcore than any vanilla ArmA game ever was. 1.5 mln players either didn't care or appreciated it. And DayZ SA is going to be even more hardcore now judging by all the info we have.

Also the fact that ArmA2 is ridden with Wasteland servers proves once again that ArmA2's milsim level is not an issue.

But it we will just gonna be realistic - no you don't have any solid stats.

And FT certainly provides perspective with actual solid numbers.

I'm not saying anything. But you sure like to pick your numbers out of thin air.

Correct me if i'm wrong, dayz is a different game, it's not arma. It's a zombie survival.

What arma 2 milsim level you talking about in wasteland? It's not to hard to get to play wasteland, i met a lot new friends, who never heard about arma, but became really good at sniping and infantery combat, just in few weeks. But are totally noob in coop, cti/warfare missions, so their skills, aren't much of help there.

Arma 3 now, is much more fluent and responcive, at close combat, which was a big pain in the ass in arma 2.

I see a lot of improvements, which i and many wished in arma 2, long before dayz and wasteland invasion.

[David77 10]

How about the private hubs that do play as teams.

They can simply take the FAKS out and use medics. In Public games it doesn't make sense, as neuro said, the public medics simply don't give a damn.

[NeuroFunker 11]

They can simply take the FAKS out and use medics. In Public games it doesn't make sense, as neuro said, the public medics simply don't give a damn.

exactly, arma 3 is a public game, so why all the hardcore stuff, from closed groups, should go to the public players? Isn't it better, to have more accessible public, so people can easier learn, and if they want more, they could join any of "hardcore milsim groups" later?

[metalcraze 290]

Correct me if i'm wrong, dayz is a different game, it's not arma. It's a zombie survival.

It's a mod for ArmA2. In reality it's a PvP deathmatch with very harsh rules. It has bleedouts, cold, hunger and thirst. Dying sends you to zero and all you've gained in a week is gone.

Longest ArmA missions last for 4 hours tops.

You also said only 10% play hardcore games and DayZ mod alone proves you wrong. Ironically DayZ players aren't even hardcore sim fans yet they welcomed hardcore gameplay of DayZ with open arms.

What arma 2 milsim level you talking about in wasteland? It's not to hard to get to play wasteland, i met a lot new friends, who never heard about arma, but became really good at sniping and infantery combat, just in few weeks. But are totally noob in coop, cti/warfare missions, so their skills, aren't much of help there.

Did many of them tell you about how hardcore arma2 is and how they want everything in it to be dumbed down here and now - or do they simply not care? And how is that representative of the whole ArmA2 crowd of which you have no numbers of any kind?

Arma 3 now, is much more fluent and responcive, at close combat, which was a big pain in the ass in arma 2.

Yes it is. But even then no turn-limits lead to many issues that even arcade shooters (BF3 being prime example) do not allow.

ArmA3 has improved stuff sure - but there's a lot lot more dumbing down. Much of which was uncalled for as FT and this here forum's votings suggest.

I see a lot of improvements, which i and many wished in arma 2, long before dayz and wasteland invasion.

If ArmA3 was ArmA2 + improvements and nothing else it would've been a proper sequel. But alas that's not how it is.

They can simply take the FAKS out and use medics. In Public games it doesn't make sense, as neuro said, the public medics simply don't give a damn.

The point is that FAKs are still better than medics. Medics in ArmA3 are spam-healers that can just run between wounded soldiers and hit MMB without preventing that soldier from fighting. FAKs eventually run out and need a soldier to get out of combat to apply even if only for 3 seconds.

It's also not a reason to dumb down the game. If BIS wanted to make public medic give a damn they should've made wounding much harsher.

Edited September 17, 2013 by metalcraze

[David77 10]

exactly, arma 3 is a public game, so why all the hardcore stuff, from closed groups, should go to the public players? Isn't it better, to have more accessible public, so people can easier learn, and if they want more, they could join any of "hardcore milsim groups" later?

Yup. Idk why people are freaking out about med packs.

* In previous titles players could always be healed by medics even after sustaining what's supposed to be a fatal wound. Repeatedly...

* Players now can do that on their own without any medic (if the mission designer doesn't simply take FAKs out of said mission)

* People IRL have access to FAKs. I have one in my bathroom & I do know how to use it. I know how to stop the bleeding & bandage my wounds. If a hot piece of lead were to go through my arm, I'd grab my FAK & tend my wounds ASAP. What's wrong with a military personnel doing the same?

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

The point is that FAKs are still better than medics. Medics in ArmA3 are spam-healers that can just run between wounded soldiers and hit MMB without preventing that soldier from fighting. FAKs eventually run out and need a soldier to get out of combat to apply even if only for 3 seconds.

Fair enough. It would be nice if they had a realistic medic system.

[NeuroFunker 11]

It's a mod for ArmA2. In reality it's a PvP deathmatch with very harsh rules. It has bleedouts, cold, hunger and thirst. Dying sends you to zero and all you've gained in a week is gone.

Longest ArmA missions last for 4 hours tops.

But arma 2 is not about survival, hunger thirst, zombies. Longest 4h? Well, not in chernarus/takistan life.

You also said only 10% play hardcore games and DayZ mod alone proves you wrong. Ironically DayZ players aren't even hardcore sim fans yet they welcomed hardcore gameplay of DayZ with open arms.

does dayz have ace ballistsics and other ACE and various hardcore stuff from mods? If you have missed, we were talking about closed community groups, which play with ace and other hardcore mods, and not vanilla arma.

Did many of them tell you about how hardcore arma2 is and how they want everything in it to be dumbed down here and now - or do they simply not care? And how is that representative of the whole ArmA2 crowd of which you have no numbers of any kind?

i tought you say arma 3 isn't dumbed down, yet you do, so how?

Yes it is. But even then no turn-limits lead to many issues that even arcade shooters (BF3 being prime example) do not allow.

ArmA3 has improved stuff sure - but there's a lot lot more dumbing down. Much of which was uncalled for as FT and this here forum's votings suggest.

again, i remember you said, arma 3 was not dumbed down.

If ArmA3 was ArmA2 + improvements and nothing else it would've been a proper sequel. But alas that's not how it is.

well, i see improvements only, you don't. It's up to personal taste.

The point is that FAKs are still better than medics. Medics in ArmA3 are spam-healers.

yes, i have said before, i would like to have not instant healing meds as well.