Disapointed with the full release content

[b00tsy 28]

Hmm, Guess I have to remap some controls then cos it does not work like the arma 2 way for me.

[marker 1]

Guys

Maybe some of us are missing the point here, regarding the lack of vehicles compared to A2 etc...

Remembering the supporters edition, it was sold with the proviso that there would be more dlc available..

Maybe BIS are holding some / a lot of stuff back to fill the gap..

Regarding the released content at the moment, I have to agree there is a bit of disappointment with the armour vehicles and the single jet just now, it does seem that BIS have been short of time, maybe they have rushed it out a bit..

As with A2, I am sure we will see it mature into itself, with the help of the modding community and some new DLC hopefully..

[trent 14]

... where to start?

guess we're bad bad for allowing AiA and supporting it ...

is it fair to count all A2 vehicle variants against A3 non variants (or as some who count CO vs A3 (technically 2 games and 3 DLCs))

nonsense about models c&p (w/o even opening them to compare shapes)

anyway ...

there is some valid critic (wish it was more of that and less ranting) and things and changes are coming but as there is certain 'no promises' policy

i can't promise ;) but i can grin and throw on you goodies {hint who remember me saying stuff coming}... :p

there is lot to fix, improve and deliver ...

um, disingenuous much? Let's compare:

Arma 2 v1.0 Vehicles

M1A1

AAV

T72

T90

BMP2

BMP3

Shilka

Tunguska

MLRS

T34

Humvee

UAZ

MTVR

Ural

Kamaz

V3S

BRDM2

BTR90

LAV25

Vodnik

Offroad

Pickup

Skoda

VW Golf

Hatchback

Sedan

Lada

Bus

Bike

Bicycle

Tractor

Airport tractor

AH1

A10

MH60

F35

AV8

Mi17

Mi24

Ka52

Su25

Su34

UH1

V22

C130

MQ9

Pchela

Fishing Boat

PBX

RHIB

Small Boat

And that's excluding all variants, even those which had extensive model changes or unique turrets like between the Humvee Ambulance and Humvee Avenger (or in A3's case the M2A1 and the blufor artillery).

Arma 3 Vehicles

M2A1

T-100

AMV7

BTR-K

AFV4

IFV-6c

MSE3

A143

CH49

Mi48

PO-3O

AH9

AH99

Quadrotor

MQ4A

UGV

UH80

SDV

Speedboat

Assault Boat

Ifrit

Zamak

Hunter

Strider

HEMMT

Offroad

SUV

Hatchback

Fishing boat

Powerboat (might have missed another unique civi boat?)

As an Arma dev I fail to see how you could possibly not have been aware of the huge gulf in numbers.

And as for c&p being "nonsense" do you want a list of comparison screens highlighting the lack of content even further? Because I have a nice ACR L-159 vs A3 A-143 screen that shows that even the pixellation of the edges of certain textures is in the exact same place.

[horrorview 10]

I've already voiced my criticisms about the things I felt were lacking from this close-to-final (I can't call it final as the lamps and houses aren't in the editor - at least not that I can tell!), but I took a beating for it because, as a person who primarily creates/plays SP urban infantry missions, I bemoaned the lack of furnishings, female civilians, and civilian variety most of all. The thing is, as someone relatively new to the ARMA series, I'm not all that bothered as one of the things that drew me to this game was the promise of what both BIS and the community historically bring to the games post-release. I was in a tactical realism clan a few years back, and I remember buying ARMA 2 the day it was released at the urging of one of the clan's members. He promised us all this expansive, hyper-realistic game that, he felt, would replace the modded versions of COD and RO that we were playing at the time. I think thirty or so members purchased the game, and, within a couple of weeks, most (including myself) dropped out of it due to it being a buggy resource hog with terrible AI and broken MP. A few months later, however, some of us went back, and the game was markedly better due to both BIS' support and the work of the mod community, and, over time, it became an embarrassment of riches in terms of content.

ARMA 3, for me, is already a much better game than ARMA 2 was at launch (although some of the recent dev builds have screwed up performance some), It's absolutely gorgeous, immersive, epic in scope, and full of the same potential ARMA 2 had (and delivered on). I see that many take offense to the fact that BIS leaves much of the finishing work up to the mod community, but I'm just happy that BIS gives us the ability to mod the game at all. They could easily take the DICE/Infinity Ward route and say "we think our community would much rather have the paid DLC we give them rather than amateur-made mods", but, instead, not only do they let us add to/edit their work; they actively encourage it, posting on the forums, offering up extra resources to modders whose work they openly admire, etc.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for what many will perceive as naivete, but I am fairly certain that by the time winter rolls around, this game will be positively teeming with new weapons, vehicles, and all manner of goodies, some provided by BIS, and a good amount more provided by the talented modding community that drew me to the series in the first place.

[Qosmius 10]

since alpha i have been sniffing out some bad cheese from the developers office.

why do they copy and paste every weapon system in the game? look at the humves, exactly same turret, look at the apcs, they all use the same turret..now even the arty uses the same turret as the enemy arty..same goes for aa vehicles..

devs havent used a dime when making these vehicles..they just made a core weapon platform and put it on every vehicle in the game..

look at arma 1, it had variety..

look at arma 2, it had variety

what happened in arma3? i will call this a failed project..

[Dwarden 1125]

the c&p comment wasn't related to L-159 model, that was obviously obvious ...

anyway the count isn't final but like i said i can't promise anything

[trent 14]

the c&p comment wasn't related to L-159 model, that was obviously obvious ...

anyway the count isn't final but like i said i can't promise anything

I can't tell if that's a mea culpa or a shifting of the goalposts. We could move onto BLUFOR and OPFOR having identical turrets pasted onto their respective tank chassis if you like.

[Tyl3r99 41]

um, disingenuous much? Let's compare:

Arma 2 v1.0 Vehicles

M1A1

AAV

T72

T90

BMP2

BMP3

Shilka

Tunguska

MLRS

T34

Humvee

UAZ

MTVR

Ural

Kamaz

V3S

BRDM2

BTR90

LAV25

Vodnik

Offroad

Pickup

Skoda

VW Golf

Hatchback

Sedan

Lada

Bus

Bike

Bicycle

Tractor

Airport tractor

AH1

A10

MH60

F35

AV8

Mi17

Mi24

Ka52

Su25

Su34

UH1

V22

C130

MQ9

Pchela

Fishing Boat

PBX

RHIB

Small Boat

And that's excluding all variants, even those which had extensive model changes or unique turrets like between the Humvee Ambulance and Humvee Avenger (or in A3's case the M2A1 and the blufor artillery).

Arma 3 Vehicles

M2A1

T-100

AMV7

BTR-K

AFV4

IFV-6c

MSE3

A143

CH49

Mi48

PO-3O

AH9

AH99

Quadrotor

MQ4A

UGV

UH80

SDV

Speedboat

Assault Boat

Ifrit

Zamak

Hunter

Strider

HEMMT

Offroad

SUV

Hatchback

Fishing boat

Powerboat (might have missed another unique civi boat?)

As an Arma dev I fail to see how you could possibly not have been aware of the huge gulf in numbers.

And as for c&p being "nonsense" do you want a list of comparison screens highlighting the lack of content even further? Because I have a nice ACR L-159 vs A3 A-143 screen that shows that even the pixellation of the edges of certain textures is in the exact same place.

ooo show us!

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Arma 2 v1.0 Vehicles

M1A1 - Updated Arma 1 model

AAV - - "Game 2" model (circa 2004 - pre-dates Arma 1) or Updated VBS model

T72 - Updated Arma 1 model

T90 - "Game 2" model

BMP2 - Updated Arma 1 model

BMP3 Think it's new, or from "Game 2"

Shilka - Updated Arma 1 model

Tunguska - Think it's new

MLRS - VBS model

T34 - New model

Humvee - New model or extensively updated Arma 1 model

UAZ - Updated Arma 1 model

MTVR - "Game 2"/Updated VBS model

Ural - Updated Arma 1 model

Kamaz - New model

V3S - New model

BRDM2 - Updated Arma 1 model

BTR90 - "Game 2" model IIRC

LAV25 - VBS model

Vodnik - new model

Offroad - Updated Arma 1 model

Pickup - Updated Arma 1 model

Skoda - Updated Arma 1 model

VW Golf - "Game 2" model

Hatchback - Updated Arma 1 model

Sedan - Updated Arma 1 model

Lada - New model

Bus - New model

Bike - Motorbikes? both Updated Arma 1 models

Bicycle - New model

Tractor - New model

Airport tractor - New model

AH1 - VBS model, was used in Arma 1 too

A10 - Updated Arma 1 model

MH60 - Updated Arma 1 model

F35 - new model

AV8 - Updated Arma 1 model

Mi17 - new model - or extensively updated Arma 1 model

Mi24 - new model

Ka52 - new model

Su25 - new model

Su34 - Updated Arma 1 model but goes back all the way to "Game 2"

UH1 - "Game 2"/Updated VBS model

V22 - "Game 2"/Updated VBS model

C130 - Updated VBS model

MQ9 - Updated VBS model

Pchela - new model

Fishing Boat - new model

PBX - Updated Arma 1 model

RHIB - Updated Arma 1 model

Small Boat - new model

Think that's a fairly broad breakdown of where the huge list of Arma 2 content originated. Some of it might be wrong, but what I remember of various pics of Arma 1 and Game 2 content it seems that a lot of recycling got done in previous titles, and Arma 3 has many many more new assets built from the ground up to a correct standard for the game.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

... where to start?

guess we're bad bad for allowing AiA and supporting it ...

Please don't use this as an argument, it's literally "the community is doing some work for us and even tho we could, we're doing nothing to stop it, praise us!". Support for it will never be on the level that will genuinely be playable without issues, it's always going to be subpar content compared to what A3 brings and what the modders with fresh content will do. It's the same thing as CO. Arma 2 content never even got the minor config touches where necessary to implement some OA features, let alone things like thermal maps and whatnot.

Hats off to .kju for his amazing work, but AiA will never become what it needs to become to be widely used and to be applicable to your argument. Majority of the content AiA hoists from the previous titles will remain subpar because of missing Arma 3 features which cannot be added by the community. The only saving grace being the islands which majority of people use it for anyway.

With the release of the full sandbox content the other day, I'm genuinely baffled that you guys used the "We didn't want to use the content that's not up to standards", yet we see the Buzzard being almost direct port and now you pride yourself how you do nothing to stop the modders from porting your old content that has no chance of improving in quality as if it's something good. On the other hand, I commend you on releasing to source files for stuff to certain modders so they can actually properly improve on your previous work to the A3 standards.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Great content to ArmA3

Can't compare it to ArmA2OA, that was like 3 games added together over a longer period.

[aus_twisted 0]

um, disingenuous much? Let's compare:

Arma 2 v1.0 Vehicles

M1A1

AAV

T72

T90

BMP2

BMP3

Shilka

Tunguska

MLRS

T34

Humvee

UAZ

MTVR

Ural

Kamaz

V3S

BRDM2

BTR90

LAV25

Vodnik

Offroad

Pickup

Skoda

VW Golf

Hatchback

Sedan

Lada

Bus

Bike

Bicycle

Tractor

Airport tractor

AH1

A10

MH60

F35

AV8

Mi17

Mi24

Ka52

Su25

Su34

UH1

V22

C130

MQ9

Pchela

Fishing Boat

PBX

RHIB

Small Boat

And that's excluding all variants, even those which had extensive model changes or unique turrets like between the Humvee Ambulance and Humvee Avenger (or in A3's case the M2A1 and the blufor artillery).

Arma 3 Vehicles

M2A1

T-100

AMV7

BTR-K

AFV4

IFV-6c

MSE3

A143

CH49

Mi48

PO-3O

AH9

AH99

Quadrotor

MQ4A

UGV

UH80

SDV

Speedboat

Assault Boat

Ifrit

Zamak

Hunter

Strider

HEMMT

Offroad

SUV

Hatchback

Fishing boat

Powerboat (might have missed another unique civi boat?)

As an Arma dev I fail to see how you could possibly not have been aware of the huge gulf in numbers.

And as for c&p being "nonsense" do you want a list of comparison screens highlighting the lack of content even further? Because I have a nice ACR L-159 vs A3 A-143 screen that shows that even the pixellation of the edges of certain textures is in the exact same place.

And how good was ArmA2 1.0 on release again? I had the German release and it was a bit of a mess. ArmA3 has been a lot better in the beta for a fair while now then how ArmA2 released, to be fair I'd wait until the full campaign is released to give a better comparison.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Think that's a fairly broad breakdown of where the huge list of Arma 2 content originated. Some of it might be wrong, but what I remember of various pics of Arma 1 and Game 2 content it seems that a lot of recycling got done in previous titles, and Arma 3 has many many more new assets built from the ground up to a correct standard for the game.

Nice list, but I'd consider "Game 2" models to be new for the title. It was never released and we really don't know what state they were in back then. Sure, it's recycling, but it's kinda "internal" recycling compared to things that were recycled from the games that were already out.

[Tonci87 163]

It would have been good to include those Vehicel models again as long as they are modernised up to standard instead of a few vehicels that share the same turrets.

[aus_twisted 0]

That reminds me, huge devs of Gran Turismo never recycle stuff now do they? A lot of that game is old models with terrible sounds and average physics, but most people think, (ah but it comes with 10,000,000 cars and it's "The real driving simulator") haha

[soapsurfer 12]

I can't see why Arma 3 should be a failed project. They said some of the goals where set new while development and I'm sure this is going to end fine. Many bugs have been eliminated through this Alpha and Beta phases and I hat a shitload of fun with this game. I made three friends of mine who are absolutely not into simulations buy this game just for some funny LAN parties (yeah, LAN support, thank you for implementing this in a time where most developers don't even know what this means). I think Arma 3 is a good step into the right direction and I hope that these bugs with yesterdays new stuff will get fixed soon - as you might know that's what the development branch is meant for: giving stuff to the people so it can get tested.

I meantioned in the dev branch topic that I'm not that happy with the variety and so on but I suppose Arma 3 will do great. The game will develop further after launch and it will get better. For a good sandbox you need high quality stuff and high quality takes its time. Maybe the concerns about the c&p will be thought over but I hope people will talk a bit more constructive without getting impolite. I'm sure there's a lood of effort and love in this game and I myself would be quite sad when reading what some people write here (bash inc). :)

Moreover, constructive criticism will help a lot more than.. well you know.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Nice list, but I'd consider "Game 2" models to be new for the title. It was never released and we really don't know what state they were in back then. Sure, it's recycling, but it's kinda "internal" recycling compared to things that were recycled from the games that were already out.

True, but it's still comparing a list of content made over a 5/6 year period (2003/2004-2009 from Game 2's inception to the release of Arma 2) to the amount of content made for Arma 3 over a 2/3 year period (2010/2011 to now).

The content added to Arma 3 would better be compared to the content added to Arma 2 via OA, BAF and PMC between 2009 and 2011 - and even then a lot of that was based on recycled content or stuff bought from external artists rather than made in-house at BIS.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Also, as far as Arma 3 "recycling" is concerned, it's really strange. It's not previous title recycling this time, but "within-the-game" recycling, for example the CROWS turrets, BTR-K turrets, identical copies of vehicles on all sides that's been explained as "a wizard did it". I'm assuming that's what makes it taste different for many.

And anyway, LB's, Merlin and the Buzzard are recycled from previous titles so they're not exactly new.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

And anyway, LB's, Merlin and the Buzzard are recycled from previous titles so they're not exactly new.

But still within Arma 3's 2/3 year development cycle (ToH and ACR DLC were released 2011 and 2012 respectively)

[james2464 177]

To fret over the amount of content is short sighted and superficial.

The question is not what you can ask of the game but what you can do for the game. Imho.

[SaOk 112]

Not dissapointed here, but of course the more the better. Hope to see AiA-vehicles with full glory (with physX and maybe PiP-mirrors) some soon day. Would start with adding A2 civilian vehicles. :)

[-ghost-tf 12]

If they are recycling parts within the game, they might aswell had made an Arma3 Operation Arrowhead, would have made things so much easier/better. Anyway, I personally dont mind alot about the content, I just want them to fix the gameplay and release arma2 MLODs.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

But still within Arma 3's 2/3 year development cycle (ToH and ACR DLC were released 2011 and 2012 respectively)

Well, true if you look at it that way. I was going for more "never seen before" thing rather than development cycle. If we consider Arma 2 to be "Game 2" as it's been stated, then entire Arma 1 falls within it's development cycle. :p

[NeuroFunker 11]

im happy with all the new content. That will be enough for a bit. Then tons of mods, and DLCs later, will expand it for us even further.

[GottyPlays 10]

Think that's a fairly broad breakdown of where the huge list of Arma 2 content originated. Some of it might be wrong, but what I remember of various pics of Arma 1 and Game 2 content it seems that a lot of recycling got done in previous titles, and Arma 3 has many many more new assets built from the ground up to a correct standard for the game.

and who gives where those models came from? weren't all the models bis property? weren't everyone happy with the models? i was, i have a2 from like 1 year and i still i have some veichules to try...they could port these again and add them to arma 3...the story of quality/quantity don't keep up alot..

we still have crappy midrange textures, clunky gameplay, where i still have problems reloading a titan without popping the head up from a rock and with wheels that disappears after bumping onto a snake...no campaign...the action menu is still clunky as hell..still huge fps issues in multiplayer and i can keep going for a while...

i can't understand people that justifies this with "mods would take care of this" but still no mod autodownloader...and don't get me started about the browser..

i can't understand people that would even pay a DLC...if i had to pay for a dlc after 4 months of testing this game for them i would definetly abandon vg and i would start with board games (i don't know the english word for this, the games like monopoly)

i can't even understand the guys defending this nonsense, there IS a lack of content. it's clear. at least for me.

still not clear what they did in 2 years. apart from graphical boost, what changed in the series? where the gameplay got improved?

it looks like a team of 5 people worked on this. we'll see what reviewers will think about the game, then it won't be user a or user b of bi forum that will judge this game.

when i joined alpha i expected ALOT more than this...if i knew earlier that the assets were so limited i could spend 30 bucks somewhere else...

sorry if im sounding rude. but i wanted to share my opinions with the devs, as usual, i'd love to change idea sooner or later, but that does not depend on me. i'm not the one that is triyng to sell something here.