Altis: Criticism and Suggestions

[yanquis 10]

I have to say I'm not impressed with Altis after a 10 minute flyover / tour. Lots of open ground, Pretty barren for the most part but I was never a big desert map fan. I know this is supposed to be like a mediteranian island but I can imagine I'll get tired of dry empty terrain really fast. I was hoping for more forests and some areas of thick vegetation.

I didnt see any large buildings to speak of either. I was hoping for some urban combat in a downtown Altis City. I didnt spot any areas where I said to myself....Wow I want to go explore that!! Thats new. It just looks and feels like something I've already played.

Right now I can't imagine playing this map for 3-5 years enjoying it. I can see myself missing Chernarus even though I'm tired of it too and know it like the back of my hand.

I'm wondering if maybe the Arma engine just can't handle a map with lots of underbrush, overgrowth and dense forests. *shrugs* Thats what I'd like to see but maybe its not even possible without the engine crapping out.

Lets me end this by saying I could be totally wrong but first impressions are known to be important.

i suppose it's possible the engine can't handle it...i know that chernarus was a nightmare for some time back in early a2 days. takistan was of course, extremely barren in comparison, & had much better performace.

but my hope is that they simply wanted it this way for whatever reason.

[doln 10]

The whole map looks great, but I really love in particular the green part out west

[purepassion 22]

There is a tree clipping through the chapel at ["Altis",[20247.3,11562,4.5254],126.816,0.7,[2.12121,-5.33974e-007],0,0,991.256,0.3,0]

[novemberist 2]

Basically most of what has already been said about the lack of forests, more enterable buildings (hospital, church), inland water and the abundance of car wrecks/ruins.

Knowing I will probably never play on Stratis again, there are also a few things I already miss from there (that I probably just haven't discovered yet):

- Antennas/Radio Towers (are there any at all on Altis?)

- Small, well fortified and somewhat "hidden" military bases like Camp Maxwell (the ones on Altis are very huge and easily spottable)

- Air Station Mike 26 ;)

Also, I miss something like a real town center in the larger cities, e.g. an extensive central square with benches, a monument etc.

[tpw 2315]

Island is a masterpiece, just needs a few more things to make it come alive:

• Inland water - streams, dams etc
  
• Ambient civs.
  
• Ambient civ traffic.
  
• Ambient furniture.
  

[chrys45 1]

It would be great when big Maps like Altis could get a better zoom level like stratis. It's very difficult to place small things exactly. I noticed you could go through some walls and pillars in the airport building at the entrance.

Edited August 27, 2013 by chrys45

[dsi24 12]

Those bamboo swamps/thickets are absolutely amazing. Especially the ditch of them that runs through Kavala.

I've noticed that bodies will destroy walls if they fall into them, not sure if that's a general bug or related to Altis but I never saw it happen on Stratis.

I wish the office building interiors were fully accessible, I understand one-offs like the school not being fully accessible, but there are quite a few office buildings!

[Fanatic72 181]

I absolutely love it! So huge, so many options...

Couple of things Im missing:

1) Buildings are empty. At least a small amount of furniture would give better immersion.

2) One of those dirt airfields should be concrete, so theres two proper airfields on the island, probably the SE one.

3) Altis and Stratis on one map like Sahrani and Rahmadi!!! :)

4) I would like more buildings or at least more use of the "special" ones.

5) Both runways on Altis airport should have lights.

6) Water in the swamps should be dirtier and without ocean sound. :D

[DeafSoul 10]

I would like suggest the idea to add on fire or the fire after smoke on the building's window when it damaged, also add huge fire on the hills where trees should be possible to destroy.

[yanquis 10]

why the fck are the buildings empty anyway??? even if the furnishings were mostly copypastad it'd add a lot to the game & couldn't be that hard...that IS coming,right??

[-=seany=- 5]

Nah, I wouldn't think so. Buildings in the Arma series are always pretty hard on the CPU ( this is why your seeing bad FPS near towns, to answer your other thread too). If they where to add objects to the inside of all those houses the game would run horribly.

[froggyluv 2136]

Nah, I wouldn't think so. Buildings in the Arma series are always pretty hard on the CPU ( this is why your seeing bad FPS near towns, to answer your other thread too). If they where to add objects to the inside of all those houses the game would run horribly.

You're right of course but still can't shake the empty feel of interiors while the rest of the island is pretty fantastic. Given we don't have a 3d editor to easily decorate and the absolutely infuriating process of trying to manually place objects in even 1 room -I'd say a module that preplaces decorum in a given area the best alternative. I don't know how many types of buildings there are but it'd be far easier for the Dev's to furnish everything once by template, give us the on/off switch via modules, perhaps a qualifier such as Light/Medium and Heavy clutter respectively. And of course, make all objects PhysX enabled so we can massively destroy their furnishings again and again.

[progamer 14]

So far Altis is amazing! Good job BI!

I guess if I had a suggestion it would be this:

#1) Building interiors.

I can't imagine the amount of work it took to create Altis, and adding interiors to buildings seems like an impossible task. But currently every building is empty and doesn't looked lived in by any sort of populace. It feels as though right before the military arrived a cleaning service came by and made billions from clearing out all the buildings, sweeping the floors, and shipping away all the T.V.'s, computers, couches, tables, pictures, chairs, microwaves, toasters, beds, mirrors, dressers, etc. I wonder if something "procedural" could be implemented to save on FPS performance?

#2) Tides(?)

I see a missed opportunity to raise/lower the sea level for certain times of day to fill the river channels and overflows near the beaches. It would make things REALLY interesting to know that attacking at a particular time of day is better for a scuba team to infiltrate more in land.

Tides: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=9834

[bonham 10]

I have a few suggestions, but first of all: the general terrain is perfect. Nature builds the best playgrounds and the placement of buildings gives the map a very authentic feel. Don't screw with that. :)

- Some bases / farmsteads have no roads leading to them, for example the observation base near 128 166. The sat texture looks like a path or simple dirt road and the place is big enough that there should be a way up. Also the area north of Alikampos has paths and dirt-road-like textures, but no actual road.

- A larger forest area would be nice, the NW or the central southern peninsula seem appropriate, since there are few towns.

- The dirt road at grid location 092 123 has misplaced "sharp turn" signs (the black and white arrows).

- Several areas in Kavala have no concrete ground and the dirt grass texture effects are visible (this is WIP I guess).

- Make the white building with the photovoltaic roof enter able (for reference, the building in question is at grid 144 164 ).

- The container terminal SE of the large airport is quite chaotic, containers are usually placed in rows and stacked. Like this: http://peachydeals.co.uk/clipgroup/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/a_Baltic_Container_Terminal_10001.jpg

- The salt lake Almyra should be much brighter, almost white in colour (same for it's smaller brother, Ochrolimni).

- At many intersections the roads joining together have clipping textures (is that the right term? Also WIP I guess), i.e. the road's shoulder is visible on the other road. Example grid 161 173

- Some rocks near the cliff at grid 172 091 have wrong or missing collision geometry.

- Fill the Xirolimni Dam's reservoir with water.

- More small ditches / ravines / mounds in the mountainous areas for infantry to hide/seek cover in.

[ceeeb 147]

Firstly, brilliant work :)

I strongly feel that adding more hills to the terrain would be detrimental - it's natural, yet diverse and interesting, not to mention the first BI terrain with any significant flat areas since North Sahrani.

Recommendations (Captain pedantic hat goes on!):

In game map:

1. Typo, "Sufr Club" should presumably read "Surf Club" (map grid 213104)
   
2. Some location's name text use dull brown colour, which nearly matches the Sat map colour making them unreadable. Recommend change text colour to black or red.
   
3. Some location use map labels without a capital first letter (eg. "factory", "storage"). Real world maps are technical documents and are very unlikely to label such places without capitalisation. For examples "Quarry", "Shelter" etc on real topo maps see http://www.topomap.co.nz/
   
4. Hospitals do not have a red cross style map icon they once did (OFP). It would be nice to have them added back in.
   
5. Visible gaps in road on in game map at bridge objects (eg map grids 076161 and 190130)
   
6. No capital letter for village name "loannina" (map grid 231199) (or is that an I, can't tell due to the crappy font?)
   
7. Some special place icons are drawn before/under building outlines (grey box), making them hidden a high zoom levels (eg fuel station, map grid 233198).
   
8. Some names of tiny villages (2-5 houses) are shown at very low zoom levels, when much larger towns are hidden (eg "Ekali", map grid 170099)
   
9. Rock area shading (light grey) are not used very effectively, too rare and unclear what it is (eg map grid 105225)
   
10. Mirror panels in solar farms have no map representation (grey box), but do have tooltip when mouse cursor is placed over them (eg map grid 156161)
    

Terrain/satellite textures and configs:

1. Some areas of lush green grass vegetation appears to have blue tinge sat map textures, which does not match tone or hue of grass clutter (eg map grid 135161).
   
2. Outline of small wire fence is drawn as black lines on satellite mask texture, making it highly visible from distance. This would be suitable for stone fence, but post and wire fences are that apparent. Recommend removing fence line from satellite textures (eg map grid 078136)
   
3. Similar to above, black lines are very apparent on satellite mask textures from distance, but there is no object or change in terrain to cause such lines when viewed from close (eg map grid 070150)
   
4. Need more dust created on gravel roads and other unsealed, lightly vegetated surfaces.
   

Objects and placement:

1. Too many near pristine looking beach chairs and umbrella's, considering the rest of the island looks abandoned by civilians and has been through some fighting. One day with rough seas or strong wind would destroy and/or scatter these objects.
   
2. Real world wind turbines always require access tracks for construction and maintenance. Example: Google Maps
   
3. Wind turbines spin too quickly for their size.
   
4. Tall military building towers seem quite unlikely - too big to be a modular structure, would require large, complex footings. A simple camera on tower would be more effective and harder target (but admittedly less fun).
   
5. Dead tree object has LOD problems, looks like it has dead leaves from distance, then changes to bare branches (eg, map grid 110130)
   
6. Destroying a power pole will leave power cables suspended in mid air
   
7. Houses are conspicuously too empty, when people are forced to leave home in a hurry they will always leave behind some items
   
8. Fence on road at map grid 134205
   
9. Stone wall on road at map grid 132212
   
10. Gap in road intersection at map grid 139188
    

Edited August 30, 2013 by ceeeb

[malkekoen 17]

Fantastic map. I'm so glad there are still developers who do this kind of thing. BIS clearly made a masterpiece.

I don't understand all the complaints about too many wrecks around the island. Clearly it's a war zone, I believe there also was a civil war before, so its natural. And I don't get why they complain about wrecks when half the island's buildings are in ruins. It fits perfectly also with the military compounds, it creates a nice dramatic tension and makes a nice backdrop for a war. Apart from that the wrecks are nice fillers!

[old_painless 183]

I really would say that one of the few things that could elevate this map further, would be indoors decorum.

The airport terminal and the hospital lends itself perfectly to some Rainbow Six style clearings, imagine if the hostage was held in the surgery room...

Currently, there is nothing telling me if I am in a surgery room, the TV room or some bed department room. That is really too bad.

A lot of good suggestions has been made to make the furniture/decor optional for the mission designer - I could not agree more, that way BI would not have to worry about performance for the vanilla map.

And the objects to place (TV sets, lamps, beds, tables, curtains etc.) could be mods, BI just need to provide the hooks for objects in rooms. PhysX objects, of course, ducking behind a table that has fallen over :-)

-OP

[liquidpinky 11]

More shipwrecks please.

Haven't found any aircraft underwater either and have done a full circuit of the sea around Altis so far, may have missed a wreck or two though.

How about a unique large shipwreck too, a freighter or warship.

Submerged crates as well, cargo ships lose them all the time. Maybe even have a trail of them leading to a large freighter wreck.

Higher mountains perhaps and certainly most of Bonham's sugestions seem good, especially the Dam.

So far the whole island has given the me feeling like when I was in Cyprus, including the Scuba Diving. I think you have captured the feeling of the island well and look forward to further improvements from this thread.

[cannonouscrash 12]

I would like to see the implementation of tides.

Would also like to know where the Submarine is.

Could you add a static 'airliner' model to the airport terminal, one that is enterable.

As other have said, the place looks dead, Could you make it come alive?

PS, its a major piece of artwork, simply stunning.

[ceeeb 147]

Regarding tides - they really are very, very small in the Mediterranean Sea

[katipo66 94]

Nah, I wouldn't think so. Buildings in the Arma series are always pretty hard on the CPU ( this is why your seeing bad FPS near towns, to answer your other thread too). If they where to add objects to the inside of all those houses the game would run horribly.

True, personally im not really worried about furnishing of buildings as i just see it as a place to hide/cover/shortcut, but maybe there could be some type solution like Wolffy's cb ai unit caching where furniture will only appear if player in certain range, but apart from eye candy what use is there for furniture.

[bigpickle 0]

Love the Altis map, my favorite bit is by far the rolling farmland in the east, it looks stunning from the air with its patchwork fields and its perfect tank battles and sniping.

I think my only critic so far would be the Salt flats, there are 3 things that seem wrong, the texture size for the salt flats is too small so it looks tiled. The second, there is no transition into salt flats from normal land. The third is the salt flats have no detail texture such as tire trails and marks etc.

Other than that the map oozes the love that's been put into it.

Edit* the hardened hanger's texture at the grass strip airfield in the north east corner flickers at certain angles.

[Kakarotto 0]

Altis is absolutely amazing, but there's always potential improvements. These are the things that I would like to see:

- More forests that can conceal troop movements.

- More of the office buildings and hospital should be enterable. Many people want big enclosed interiors to have firefights in.

- More unique (preferably large) buildings with interiors. As has been suggested, a town hall/government building and police stations would be great (and benefit mission makers). Maybe a couple apartment buildings or hotels. Urban should be a larger part of Arma.

- Farming areas with crops

- I like that the terrain is mostly flat with subtle elevation changes, it looks more realistic. But maybe a few more well-placed hills would add more variety, although it should definitely not be too hilly like Stratis is. I would like to see some of the roads be on hills with steep drop-offs on the sides, so you can't just drive off the side of the road if you get ambushed.

- The desert sand area should be larger

- Some of the road texture transitions (where two types of roads intersect) look strange and too pronounced, like where dirt roads appear partially on top of the nicely paved roads when the two meet.

- Perhaps most importantly, it needs better distant terrain textures, as seen in this thread.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Kakarotto

[nikiforos 450]

I would love to see some bakery stores, some cafeterias, a post office or something. More variety in towns and different kind of stores :)

[fujix 11]

I would love to see some bakery stores, some cafeterias, a post office or something. More variety in towns and different kind of stores :)

Cafeterias would be awesome. Somewhere to chill between engagements with a cold frappedaki.

Oh wait we are not in Greece anymore :D