AI Discussion (dev branch)

[FruitBat 1]

Hi guys,

 

It seems animal behaviour is broken in the Sneak preview version [and probably RC I imagine].

 

They now do not follow waypoints if spawned using either createUnit and doMove command or createAgent and moveTo command [Nor any combination]. Hopefully this can be fixed.

 

You can test on this trial mission from the wiki.

 

Test Mission Link

 

Wiki Topic link

 

 

Thanks as always,

 

Rough.

[oldy41 61]

Synopsis: The impact of high grass on AI vision still needs to be improved.

 

One of my major concerns regarding the Tanoa scenario was, how firefights against AI would play out in those dense jungle environments.

My testing on that is rather promising. Though it is very challenging (as it should be) to cope with enemy AI in the jungles, one does not get the impression of the god-like x-ray vision which was notorious for previous versions of the series. That's really great!

 

However, regarding grass it still seems to be different. I set up a quick test scenarion in an more or less open area with high grass and no big difference in elevation, i.e. you see lots of grass in front of you.

This tends to play out in a very frustrating way. AI will regularly spot you, while you have no chance to even get a glimpse on the enemy. The same can be observed for your own AI squad mates, which announce enemy units and open fire while you still dont see ****.

 

Obviously this is caused by the mechanism, how grass works on AI vision. I believe the penalty factor imposed on AI for spotting units in higher grass clutter is still much too low.

[Vasily.B 529]

Synopsis: The impact of high grass on AI vision still needs to be improved.

 

One of my major concerns regarding the Tanoa scenario was, how firefights against AI would play out in those dense jungle environments.

My testing on that is rather promising. Though it is very challenging (as it should be) to cope with enemy AI in the jungles, one does not get the impression of the god-like x-ray vision which was notorious for previous versions of the series. That's really great!

 

However, regarding grass it still seems to be different. I set up a quick test scenarion in an more or less open area with high grass and no big difference in elevation, i.e. you see lots of grass in front of you.

This tends to play out in a very frustrating way. AI will regularly spot you, while you have no chance to even get a glimpse on the enemy. The same can be observed for your own AI squad mates, which announce enemy units and open fire while you still dont see ****.

 

Obviously this is caused by the mechanism, how grass works on AI vision. I believe the penalty factor imposed on AI for spotting units in higher grass clutter is still much too low.

Totally agree. One, big lead ball on the leg is Terrain problems:

- Visiblity of terrain on other settings (objects in the ir, seeing ai through hills, etc but its other topic - where i writed too)

- Grass..... Jeez, i cannot count how many times i was phroning in some hole arounded by grass, and boom i'm dead - by ai who was crouched and see me throught that grass - the same grass through which i wasn seeing him, or when standing in front of small hill (with grass off course) and get a headshot by ai, which saw only my head through this dense grass and instantly shooted it from 300M.

- Trees - Ai still can see through its corone (the green area) - specially frustrating on hill'y terrains (including Stratis & Altis).

Seriously - i knew from begin it will be bottleneck (dont know if its righ word) of Tanoa, i knew it when they announced it, beacuse it was problem of Arma already. Grass coverage should be classified as vegeteation (same as bushes) and problem would be gone.

 

[froggyluv 2135]

Also presently surprised the effectiveness of jungle cover seeming to really work as terrors of AI terminators past still looms. Seeing things I've just never seen before like AI fighting up close and personal at as little as 2m engagements.Forgot I had Sanchez's head MOD running until we accidentally bumped into redfor nose to nose, my Sharpshooter raised his gun after initial jolt and just decapped a guy right in front of me. My jaw literally dropped as an AI called out "what the fuck was that?!" (gore response MOD I'm working on )

 

BI you should really consider adding gore - makes for a memorable *cough* blast..

[supercereal4 29]

Seriously - i knew from begin it will be bottleneck (dont know if its righ word) of Tanoa, i knew it when they announced it, beacuse it was problem of Arma already. Grass coverage should be classified as vegeteation (same as bushes) and problem would be gone.

 

 

PLEASE YES! Had a very frustrating experience last night with this. AI can lay prone in a field of tall grass and detect and shoot you perfectly fine. The only problems I see with reducing AI detection in grass is how after a certain distance grass doesn't render so if an AI was hiding in grass and couldn't detect enemies, but you were 200m away and could see the AI perfectly clearly because the grass wasn't rendered, it would give you an unfair advantage.

[ImperialAlex 72]

PLEASE YES! Had a very frustrating experience last night with this. AI can lay prone in a field of tall grass and detect and shoot you perfectly fine. The only problems I see with reducing AI detection in grass is how after a certain distance grass doesn't render so if an AI was hiding in grass and couldn't detect enemies, but you were 200m away and could see the AI perfectly clearly because the grass wasn't rendered, it would give you an unfair advantage.

But hey, the current "sink body into ground to simulate grass" system is such a *perfect* solution to the issue you described that I can't see why you're concerned at all. /s

[Vasily.B 529]

But hey, the current "sink body into ground to simulate grass" system is such a *perfect* solution to the issue you described that I can't see why you're concerned at all. /s

Yeah? So if Ai is singked in grass (phrone in tall grass, and should not see anything is same level) and shoot you like a sniper is it cool or realistic? Or its sarcasm again?

[ImperialAlex 72]

Or its sarcasm again?

Yep, sarcasm. That's why it has the "/s" at the end https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation#Other_typography

[Vasily.B 529]

Yep, sarcasm. That's why it has the "/s" at the end https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation#Other_typography

Thanks for clarification :) First time meet /s.

[fabrizio_t 58]

A simple observation about AI behaviour when fighting in jungle:

AI sticking to fixed "cover positions" (bound to objects) in combat  leads to reduced survivability under fire: units keep standing / crouching whereas it would be better for them to go prone.  
Imho cover position should never lock stance when under fire.

[ruff 102]

A simple observation about AI behaviour when fighting in jungle:

AI sticking to fixed "cover positions" (bound to objects) in combat  leads to reduced survivability under fire: units keep standing / crouching whereas it would be better for them to go prone.  

Imho cover position should never lock stance when under fire.

Wouldn't they just prone then when they should be kneeling when there is high grass?

[fabrizio_t 58]

Wouldn't they just prone then when they should be kneeling when there is high grass?

Maybe, but that's an entirely different matter (nothing to do with fixed cover positions).

 

[Vasily.B 529]

@fabrizo_t - Maybe its related to suppresive fire? When Ai is not suprressed its trying to fire back. If you would supress them, they should phrone.

[Kydoimos 916]

All bridges are broken on Tanoa on dev branch - not a single vehicle will move across them. They've disappeared from the map too - but maybe it was always like that?  

[kill mig 23]

110 meters distance.

 

 

https://youtu.be/vaBHGQV3NJM

 

Nice job!

Stable version is broken too (RPG-32).

[ruff 102]

Maybe, but that's an entirely different matter (nothing to do with fixed cover positions).

I think that's why they did that as they don't know how to fix the AI shooting through grass or bushes. Two sided coin as in if the AI is in your team they die and if it's Opfor better so they don't have an unfair advantage.

Yup a totally diff matter

[[LTC] Vegas =21st= 17]

Unfortunately, I have noticed several issues with AI since 1.60, and these issues carry over to dev branch as well.

 

The AI do not appear to register sound at distanced >200 meters. They also make no effort to scan or locate targets. They forget that they are being shot at a few seconds after it stops.

 

This makes coop missions extremely easy and renders suppressed weapons useless. Any feedback on this would be much appreciated.

 

 

Here is a video demonstration

 

 

I have a support ticket in regarding these issues here

[old_painless 182]

As far as I remember, a few builds ago some things were tweaked in regard to the AIs ability to spot targets. Perhaps they went a bit too far ....

 

This is what I am referring to:

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/150500-development-branch-captains-ai-log/page-6#entry3045162

[froggyluv 2135]

 Getting believable spotting distances when enagements range from imminent to 700m is no easy task. I remember first day I excitedly started up the new game Crysis, took a shot at a guy on a beach from maybe 150m and he just stood there while I was plain as day -woops...!

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

Unfortunately, I have noticed several issues with AI since 1.60, and these issues carry over to dev branch as well.

 

The AI do not appear to register sound at distanced >200 meters. They also make no effort to scan or locate targets. They forget that they are being shot at a few seconds after it stops.

 

This makes coop missions extremely easy and renders suppressed weapons useless. Any feedback on this would be much appreciated.

 

 

Here is a

 

 

I have a support ticket in regarding these issues here

Yikes. :(

No imagine how this would look at night: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/192082-does-anyone-else-think-there-might-be-an-issue-with-ai-night-detection/

Thanks for catching this.

[Vasily.B 529]

AI should not see you at night if they havent night vission - no doubt, its not a bug, finally nice feature.

[scottdog62 9]

The AI's ability to see at night needs to be worked on aswell, You can all most walk up to them and kiss them.
Would be if there was a way to scale it as well.

[old_painless 182]

Try without NVGs. I think it is a good representation of visibility at night

[ImperialAlex 72]

Having just tested the nightvision a bit more: It seems pretty awesome! With skillFinal 1 they behave pretty much exactly the way humans without NVGs would behave. Not sure what people were expecting but NVG vs non-NVG in the dark isn't supposed to be fair ;) 

[Vasily.B 529]

AI detection in night is pretty realistic, and should not be changed. If BI would decide to improve it some way, they can add some detection way for AI - hearings. AI could hear us. But again, this would need some counter-action for player - sneaking. I leave choice for Bohemia, but for me, it can stay as it is.