AI Discussion (dev branch)

[en3x 209]

AI can already hear us ; ) Try sneaking behind unaware target.

[Vasily.B 529]

AI can already hear us ; ) Try sneaking behind unaware target.

So as you can see, its done in right way, no need for remaking good system.

[ImperialAlex 72]

I just played with the system some more and for me the AI reacted very realistically to being engaged at night. They returned a decisive burst of fire at the location of the muzzle blast. When I moved, they didn't magically know my position*, instead they'd turn and engage my muzzle flash once I opened up fire. Basically, I just want to say again job well done. I'm really looking forward to the new amazing night-time missions that will be possible with these AI improvements. 

 

PS: Please note that this was tested using vanilla weapons. Modded weapons/ammo can sometimes have issues with their configuration that makes them perform oddly when used with AI (e.g. visibleFire not being defined properly )

 

*small edit: If I move while they are still firing, they seem to be able to track me. It seems like "target position" ((_unit targetKnowledge player) select 6) is tracking my actual position rather than remaining centred on the location of my muzzle flash.

edit2: Looks like they're just really good at seeing which way you're going. The tracking is not perfect though so looks like that's a feature, not a bug ;)

[Ivanoff.N 61]

Hey

 

I have noticed that you have introduced new surface feature for AI, when they will not use crouch or prone stances on certain surfaces (e.g. tall grass).

 

Maybe it is possible to use the same system in buildings ?

AI knows when he enters a building (speed becomes limited), so maybe it is possible restrict prone stance and use only crouch, as going prone makes them clip through walls ?

 

If prone stance is no good because their head will be sticking out the window, maybe substitute prone with low crouch at least ? Low crouch is low enough to conceal a unit under any window on Altis.

[Vasily.B 529]

Hey

 

I have noticed that you have introduced new surface feature for AI, when they will not use crouch or prone stances on certain surfaces (e.g. tall grass).

 

Maybe it is possible to use the same system in buildings ?

AI knows when he enters a building (speed becomes limited), so maybe it is possible restrict prone stance and use only crouch, as going prone makes them clip through walls ?

 

If prone stance is no good because their head will be sticking out the window, maybe substitute prone with low crouch at least ? Low crouch is low enough to conceal a unit under any window on Altis.

Very good idea, +1

[ivan keska 45]

AI at night if they have grenade launchers and flare rounds, should fire flares into the air once combat has started. Thus increasing their view range and overall combat effectiveness. Same if they have say chem lights and are in a close quarters situation thus forest or town, they will toss chem lights onto cover that's away from them. Thus if enemy is there or moves there, the AI are more likely to spot them.

 

Also haven't played on dev branch in a few days but last i remember, is the AI couldn't shoot or see you if you peaked around cover just enough to see them. Like they still registered you as behind cover even though you had just your rifle and head poked out and were shooting them.

 

But the AI over all i feel have been greatly improved and after seeing AI in other games that have be presented at E3 and other sources. It seems like we have some of the better AI when compared to other titles.

[Vasily.B 529]

+1 to flares. Problem may be with chemlights - just look how Ai behave now with smoke. They seems to throw it in totally random direction when they are supressed, random direction, random distance. I guess we would see same bug with chemlights, and in final Ai woul light up themselves only.

[ivan keska 45]

+1 to flares. Problem may be with chemlights - just look how Ai behave now with smoke. They seems to throw it in totally random direction when they are supressed, random direction, random distance. I guess we would see same bug with chemlights, and in final Ai woul light up themselves only.

 

Ya thats a fair point but still shooting up flares, is a good idea also very realistic. Plus would be a really cool idea to make it into a trigger. So imagine engaging AI they launch a flare and all the other hostile groups in the area that spot the flare go into aware mode and start moving in towards the flares location. Which is something i haven't seen done in missions, where AI groups will communicate with on another in same shape or form. And always baffled me because why wouldn't the enemy be communicating with each other, by radio or using signal flares. After all what militia or military force wouldn't come under fire and try to contact friendlies for support or just report the situation.

[Vasily.B 529]

Crew on FFV position cannot order by AWSD to vehicle to moves.

[x3kj 1247]

Is there any chance that AI behaviour of drivers in AFV's during combat will get improved? Right now it seems they follow infantry logic - you will very often see MBT's drive around in random directions, with vulnerable rear or side towards the enemy, when contact is made.

 

A squadron of armored vehicles often just drive around like spooked chicken when contact is made, showing their rear towards the enemy, driving in arkward positions diagonal to the enemy (away from him) for no apparent reason and at breakneck speed, often crashing and sometimes even rolling over or ending up in unrecoverable positions (especially on stratis and tanoa).

 

They should decide to make or break. Either turn their strongest armor (in the front) to dangerous threats (other AFV) and start engaging. Or to withdraw into cover, while still showing the front to the largest threat - as in - retreating in reverse, and engaging.

Provided no direct move-command is given, otherwise they should continue driving towards their target while engaging.

[Vasily.B 529]

Is there any chance that AI behaviour of drivers in AFV's during combat will get improved? Right now it seems they follow infantry logic - you will very often see MBT's drive around in random directions, with vulnerable rear or side towards the enemy, when contact is made.

 

A squadron of armored vehicles often just drive around like spooked chicken when contact is made, showing their rear towards the enemy, driving in arkward positions diagonal to the enemy (away from him) for no apparent reason and at breakneck speed, often crashing and sometimes even rolling over or ending up in unrecoverable positions (especially on stratis and tanoa).

 

They should decide to make or break. Either turn their strongest armor (in the front) to dangerous threats (other AFV) and start engaging. Or to withdraw into cover, while still showing the front to the largest threat - as in - retreating in reverse, and engaging.

Provided no direct move-command is given, otherwise they should continue driving towards their target while engaging.

Agree. There was mod "Smarter Tanks" but its outdated now and some function hit FPS very hard. But to be honest AFV isnt Infatry. Tactics for AFV's should be more organised. There comes few problems:

- Every country (almost) have diferent tactics for AFV's, so BI, to make it most enjoyable way for player, could make this strategic editable (via fsm files or something).

- APC, IFV, Tanks uses diferent startegy so BI would need to programm all 3 strategies, if not more (there are MRAPS, Amphibious etc.)

Right now most annoying feature about vehicles (air) is that, the choppers are still hanging in one place, waiting to die, beacuse they ingore enemy fire in their way.

[x3kj 1247]

AI does not do tactics. Ai does per-unit-reaction. And the reactions of a tank/ APC/ IFV when contact is made does not radically differ between countries. Base rules like 1) return fire asap (if effective), otherwise smoke (if detected). and 2) bloody hide your vulnerable sides/rear. 3) if overmatched (firepower/armor), gtfo of sight. - are universal, no matter what country or vehicle.

 

There only needs to be  a distinction between "Soft" vehicle and "Hard" vehicle. MRAP's are soft, they only protect against smallarms and mines/etc. If a heavy machinegun or autocannon sneezes at them they are history. Their armor is generally not much different all around. Hard would be all with more serious armor, where direction matters. With the current free AI behaviour, vehicles without 360° turrets are simply not viable for AI either.

Also, terrain with lot of hills/mountains (tanoa, Stratis) leads to AI reclessly driving down any slope they can find, unable to get back up to engage the enemy. Sometimes i have a feeling they are magically attracted to slopes.

[Vasily.B 529]

I think if they would apply first 3 point tactics for AI it would be OK.  I write tactics, beacuse its tactics in some way, even if for each unit in the squad/platoon. All vehicles should deploy smoke if possible and run the hell out of enemy with bigger guns, eventually if enemy have advantage in number (1 tank vs 5 tanks) - and it is possible to make. Now i'm starting new job, so my new hobby is new job, so cannot modify my addon, but if i will get back into arma more serious after months, who knows. Maybe there will be no need, beacuse Bohemia will do it better.
 

[R3vo 2654]

Was anything changes regarding AI accuracy? I've got my settings adjusted to an accuracy of 0.05 but the Ai only needs 1-3 tries to hit me, even over distances > 400m. I am 100% positive that this wasn't the case a few updates ago.

[Vasily.B 529]

Was anything changes regarding AI accuracy? I've got my settings adjusted to an accuracy of 0.05 but the Ai only needs 1-3 tries to hit me, even over distances > 400m. I 100% positive that this wasn't the case a few updates ago.

I'm on RC and they can hit me with 3 shots max, no matter what distance .

[das attorney 858]

What I would like for AI is for accuracy to be definable like it is now, but they miss by a smaller margin.

 

At the moment, if you put a small number for AI accuracy, the cone of fire seems to expand as well.

 

I'd like for them to miss most of the time, but also to feel as if there's imminent danger as well (bullets landing close to me).

[froggyluv 2136]

 ^^^So basically like bullets are always honing in on you even with bad skilled soldiers. Id like that as well

[Gwynbleidd 28]

Was anything changes regarding AI accuracy? I've got my settings adjusted to an accuracy of 0.05 but the Ai only needs 1-3 tries to hit me, even over distances > 400m. I am 100% positive that this wasn't the case a few updates ago.

I don't know about dev, but after 1.60 stable update, I definitely felt increase in their accuracy and had to lower it. Couple of updates ago (1.54, maybe 1.56), I had the feeling they lowered their accuracy a bit, and really liked how they were until this last update.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

AI cheeky driving (too speedy maybe?)

 

[road runner 4344]

I have to be honest and say the AI, especially on Tanoa are so much better than before, they are limited in their visibility in dense vegetation,  don't know how many times I've suddenly had an AI enemy appear in front of me during a jungle firefight!! Being surrounded by enemy AI in the jungle is a tactical test of wits and firepower, they've fragged my arse on many an occasion too.

[oukej 2910]

I don't know about dev, but after 1.60 stable update, I definitely felt increase in their accuracy and had to lower it. Couple of updates ago (1.54, maybe 1.56), I had the feeling they lowered their accuracy a bit, and really liked how they were until this last update.

Would you pls have any more details on that? I.e. how many shots the AI needs to hit u on what distance. What it could have been like in the prev. updates. MP or SP? Anything that comes to your mind. Thanks!

[Gwynbleidd 28]

Hm, not too sure about the actual numbers. If I had to say something, then maybe at 100 meters just after contact in the open (while they haven't yet been surpressed) it used to take them 2-4 shots to score a hit.
Now it's more like 1-3 shots, though take these numbers with a grain of salt. 

One thing I'm sure about is that at these relatively short ranges, they hit their first shot a more often then they used to, even after making sharp turns.

Something else that seems to happen more is trading shots with AI (at 100m). I hit him once, he hits me immediately after (as if my shot has less impact on their accuracy then before the update?).

 

This was all on MP. If it helps, I lowered AI accuracy by 0.10, and they seem to be more like before the update (not completely kicking my ass) :)

 

 

On an unrelated note, I think the AI reaction speed should be toned down just a little bit.

 

According to google, average human reaction time to visual stimuli is 0.25 seconds, so the moment I'm visible to him, 

it should take him some time (let's say between 0.20-030) to start doing anything at all, and after that, he should start turning, and try to hit me.

 

Now check this video: tttps://youtu.be/l5UM_uPb4NM?t=40s

 

I was the attacker, and since I knew when I'm going to pop up and shoot him, he was at disadvantage, since he is reacting to me (he has reaction time penalty+take time to aim, I only have to take time to aim).

Now if you check the video, even with the "jump" I had on him, we both fire of the shot at the same time.

His was just a reaction shot though, before taking time to aim, but still, his reaction is too fast, if I measured it correctly in video editor, it's 0.110s.

 

Now, next problem. I hit my first shot, he misses, I fire of my second shot and hit him again, his second shot headshots me and kills me. You might need to quickly pause/play the video to be able to follow everything that happened, but if you do, pause on second casing that ejects from my gun, and you will see that as he flinches (just as my second shot landed), he fires of the shot that kills me.
 

I do not mind their accuracy this close, he definitely should be able to hit me easily, but the punishment for getting hit on aiming needs to be bigger for both AI, and the player (for player maybe just rotate the aim by a small degree, just to throw him of his aim upon getting hit).

It kinda sucks to do everything right - having the jump on someone, hitting him first, landing all shots, and then getting killed by the luck of the draw.

 

 

Here's one more video just so you can be certain it was not the missions fault (for the fast AI reaction), they tend to react faster then people, here is a generic encounter: 

 

tttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AR_1KtOUS4

 

Now we both were surprised here, he was wandering around not looking in my direction (I was to his 9 o'clock), and he ran directly in front of me plain as day, and he still reacted faster than me - by that I mean he started to turn towards me

before I started to turn towards him, because it took me time to realize he is moving in front of me (reaction time penalty). The only reason I'm alive is because he needed to turn to shoot me, and I was luckily looking right at him, with gun raised.

 

When you have a lot of teammates it's even more pronounced, because your reaction can't be shoot on sight as it was on my video. It's a small fraction of a second, but you still need it to determine if it's friendly.

[froggyluv 2136]

 Nice detailed post on reactions -good stuff there. That AI flinch just HAS TO GO! Man with all the disappointment of losing AI in a lackluster campaign, they cant add a few hit animations in or throttle up that ragdoll a bit?

 

 Config changes aint enough homies!!! (shouts to empty canyons)

[road runner 4344]

These suppressed sounds are just horrendous gwynbleidd :O

 

Don't you think that possibly the guy got the drop on you as he was alert, due to the fact you've been going room to room killing his oppo's with a really horrendously sounding suppressed weapon? :D ;) 

[Vasily.B 529]

About AI, one last thing i really wanna see in this game, and its very lack, is blocking AI view through every grass. Its impossible to play fair with AI right now in for example Chernarus, or some region of Altis without third person view, or disabling grass, to see enemy (and terrible terrain glitches like objects in the air on 500M). I cant count how many times i died, beacuse AI standing behind the small hill, and having only part of body uncovered by terrain, covered by the grass (should not see anything) shooted perfectly as marksman, while he got only kotiba with iron sight. He was at 350M. He eliminated my whole squad (6 people), He didnt died in this fight, My AI teammembers with same skill couldnt get a hit on him, i wasnt able to even see him.
My actual AI settings are General 0.60, and the lower bar to 0.45. Modded Choppers (KA-52) with that skill cant hit target with guided missles