AI Discussion (dev branch)

[Wiki 1558]

Isn't it possible to have a WP or settings to have AI just move according to the speed of the WP without stopping every 2 meters?

Would be good when trying to have them flee from an area - even if they have enemies in sight.

[thx1137 10]

I am liking the AI with the latest stable build. I use "Normal" level AI. I get head shot sometimes but mainly when I should be. IE: <100 meters where the enemy is prone and facing my direction already. In almost every other situation they take a few shots to get me, it varies how quick they zero in but then I expect that due to the different AI skill levels. I have also noticed improvements in driving for some AI vehicles in my armour path finding mission. They aren't running into so many building corners :-)

I was in a building and shot at one guy today, missed him, got suppressed by one of his buddies then got the shock of my life when the guy I shot at climbed the stairs entered the door and shot me! Fluke? Maybe. Awesome. Oh yeah.

I haven't felt a need for an AI mod for a little while now though I would like it if the vanilla AI dropped smoke when heavily suppressed or trying to cover for wounded. The only mod that sort of affects AI that is a must have for me right now is AGM. It really shouldn't take five body shots to take out an AI.

The short of it. I get hammered when I get a bit lazy so maybe the difficulty is a little high for a "Normal" level but then I'm not particularly good. My squad mates always get more kills than I do!

From my perspective the main thing I would like to see now is a reduction in what I think is path-finding cost. I have one mission where there are ~40 AI in Kavala. I get 20 to 27 fps (usually 20) as they hunt each other. Another mission is mainly in the woods where I have 120 AI and I get 45 to 60 fps when they hunt each other. I think adding vehicles in particular are pretty bad but they are so good when they explode. :-)

[KeyCat 131]

First of all thanks for AI fixes and tweaks given to us since the release but I still hope you continue...

I am liking the AI with the latest stable build.

Good to hear headshots got some love. Since I switched to stable a while ago I add my comments about AI in latest stable build (1.20.124746).

The AI are still able to home in on you like terminators despite you laying hidden in a bush wearing a ghillie suit after firing 1-2 shots with silencer. After the shots are fired they act a bit confused but after 10-20 seconds they "magically" knows your exact position and starts to home in on you.

My test scenario is the same as I used in Alpha and described previously in this post. The difference now is that I used the silencer on a MK18 ABR. Something is still wrong IMO given that...

1. You lay prone and completely still wearing a ghillie hidden in tall grass and a bush.

2. You are killing one of the enemies with 1-2 shots from ~200 m with a silencer.

3. No human would be able to spot the target in similar situation.

This is what you (or the AI) would see when standing ~5 m from the bush I'm hidden in. Then same but at different distances and optics...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/god8qbdonih2fu8/03.png

View from ~5 m looking thru scope

https://www.dropbox.com/s/519775za04w6ech/04.png

View from ~35 m

https://www.dropbox.com/s/skwsmnbpn8jz8jt/05.png

View from ~35 m looking thru scope

https://www.dropbox.com/s/907seoh8egirka9/06.png

View from ~35 m looking thru binocs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/njms1q9zcwfu22a/07.png

View from ~100 m

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i58xg4fg42zgbz4/08.png

View from ~100 m looking thru scope

https://www.dropbox.com/s/49knl62v3omoghu/09.png

View from ~100 m looking thru binocs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wuscr7ntijgsepf/10.png

	skillAI=0.80000001;
	precisionAI=0.40000001;

/KC

Edited May 31, 2014 by KeyCat

[mariodu62 5]

Why AI are so stupid when they are created on a Headless Client ???

[oukej 2911]

Headless, aren't they?

Ok, seriously now - it probably caused by http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=18365

[Tonci87 163]

Headless, aren't they?

I LOLed :D

[mariodu62 5]

Headless, aren't they?

Ok, seriously now - it probably caused by http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=18365

Yeahhh... yes maybe.

But why after targetting and shooting someone they don't kill, they stop shooting him. And never engage him anymore ?

[oukej 2911]

But why after targetting and shooting someone they don't kill, they stop shooting him. And never engage him anymore ?

Does it happen always with units local to the "headless" client? Or does it need to have specific circumstances?

Could you please check the individual AI skills and AI level on the client? (final skills below 0.1 can eventually render some broken behavior - currently that can happen with AI set to lower bound skill in the editor + e.g. Novice AI level. We may want to readjust the curves to achieve better propagation and cut off the "broken extremes". (And possibly break everything by doing so ;)))

[Variable 322]

In certain ranges, the AI tends to shoot in fixed intervals, which sounds very artificial. It used to be this way in Arma 2, but it's I think it's a new phenomena in Arma 3.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

In certain ranges, the AI tends to shoot in fixed intervals, which sounds very artificial. It used to be this way in Arma 2, but it's I think it's a new phenomena in Arma 3.

Nah it happened in 2 aswell, made it very obvious when you were fighting AI rather than players and I really hope to see it changed

[Wiki 1558]

Isn't it possible to have a WP or settings to have AI just move according to the speed of the WP without stopping every 2 meters?

Would be good when trying to have them flee from an area - even if they have enemies in sight.

Please, what about this? Is it being worked on?

[oukej 2911]

In certain ranges, the AI tends to shoot in fixed intervals, which sounds very artificial. It used to be this way in Arma 2, but it's I think it's a new phenomena in Arma 3.

Yup, it's dependent on the configuration of weapon's fire modes. When aimed the AI just does what's set in there.

But some randomization is created by the dynamic error introduced in Arma 3 (the AI looses its aim more often which creates irregular pauses in the shooting) Unless the situation is super-static I think the intervals are by far not so obvious as before.

Please, what about this? Is it being worked on?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159710-AI-Discussion-(dev-branch)&p=2685753&viewfull=1#post2685753

Nothing interesting to share here, move along ;) In a long-run. So far it is not intended to override combat behavior, but solve the cases where it clearly "sucks". Either - pretty vaguely said - by new functionality or by improving some of the conditions.

[mariodu62 5]

Does it happen always with units local to the "headless" client? Or does it need to have specific circumstances?

Could you please check the individual AI skills and AI level on the client? (final skills below 0.1 can eventually render some broken behavior - currently that can happen with AI set to lower bound skill in the editor + e.g. Novice AI level. We may want to readjust the curves to achieve better propagation and cut off the "broken extremes". (And possibly break everything by doing so ;)))

here are the information : maybe too much skill

"R Alpha 1-2:1 - AWARE - I_pilot_F - 0.768889"
"R Alpha 1-3:1 - AWARE - I_soldier_F - 0.833517"
"R Alpha 2-2:1 - AWARE - I_soldier_F - 0.833517"
"R Alpha 3-1:1 - SAFE - I_Soldier_TL_F - 0.752503"
"R Alpha 3-1:2 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AA_F - 0.796783"
"R Alpha 3-1:3 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AA_F - 0.804881"
"R Alpha 3-1:4 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AAA_F - 0.802956"
"R Alpha 2-3:1 - COMBAT - I_soldier_F - 0.833517"
"R Alpha 3-3:1 - STEALTH - I_Soldier_TL_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:2 - STEALTH - I_Soldier_M_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:5 - STEALTH - I_Soldier_AAA_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:7 - STEALTH - I_engineer_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:8 - STEALTH - I_officer_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:11 - STEALTH - I_Soldier_AA_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:13 - STEALTH - I_Soldier_TL_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:14 - STEALTH - I_Soldier_AAT_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 3-3:15 - STEALTH - I_Soldier_M_F - 0.85"
"R Alpha 4-2:1 - SAFE - I_Soldier_SL_F - 0.753388"
"R Alpha 4-2:2 - SAFE - I_Soldier_TL_F - 0.808162"
"R Alpha 4-2:3 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AR_F - 0.801663"
"R Alpha 4-2:4 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AR_F - 0.792424"
"R Alpha 4-1:1 - COMBAT - I_soldier_F - 0.833517"
"R Alpha 4-3:1 - CARELESS - I_UAV_AI - 0.810853"
"R Alpha 4-3:2 - CARELESS - I_UAV_AI - 0.810853"
"R Bravo 1-2:1 - SAFE - I_Soldier_SL_F - 0.779076"
"R Bravo 1-2:2 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AR_F - 0.754787"
"R Bravo 1-2:3 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AT_F - 0.827317"
"R Bravo 1-2:4 - SAFE - I_Soldier_AAR_F - 0.820757"
"R Bravo 1-1:2 - SAFE - I_G_Soldier_F - 0.810853"
"R Bravo 2-1:3 - COMBAT - I_Soldier_AR_F - 0.826801"

*--------------*

They look less stupid when behavior is safe and skill is lower.

Here are setting for HC & server

		skillFriendly=0.69999999;
	skillEnemy=0.69999999;
	precisionFriendly=0.40000001;
	precisionEnemy=0.40000001;
	aiLevelPreset=1;

When i say they are stupid, they are stupid, you can shoot them, run with them, kiss them, they'll never shoot you anymore. (with server only and with HC)

Edited June 5, 2014 by Mariodu62
precision

[Variable 322]

Nah it happened in 2 aswell

That's what I said.

---------- Post added at 17:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

Yup, it's dependent on the configuration of weapon's fire modes. When aimed the AI just does what's set in there.

But some randomization is created by the dynamic error introduced in Arma 3 (the AI looses its aim more often which creates irregular pauses in the shooting) Unless the situation is super-static I think the intervals are by far not so obvious as before.

Thanks oukej, please see here

at 3:28 you can hear a very obvious fixed intervals shooting by the AI.

[Polymath820 11]

AI do have wallhacks and they do track targets through walls...

http://imgur.com/nDn3IaW

[Smurf 12]

Actually they make an estimation of the target once it get out of the LOS, based on it's speed and direction.

[maturin 12]

AI do have wallhacks and they do track targets through walls...

http://imgur.com/nDn3IaW

No they don't. They just have brains and don't forget about an enemy as soon as they run behind a wall. So they assume the target will maintain speed and direction in order to predict its heading.

[vegeta897 13]

They can also track a unit's position by sound if they're close enough, can't they?

[maturin 12]

They can also track a unit's position by sound if they're close enough, can't they?

Yes, but they will almost never fire based on sound alone. Their ears are very inaccurate compared to their eagle eyes.

[f2k sel 164]

No they don't. They just have brains and don't forget about an enemy as soon as they run behind a wall. So they assume the target will maintain speed and direction in order to predict its heading.

They can see dead bodies through walls even when not grouped, the ignore them until they turn around.

They know about dead units in the group instantly even if miles away.

They Know the location of all ammo boxes.

They can take ammo form invisible boxes or units.

They can take ammo from boxes 100 meters in the air.

So even if they can't see living units you do get a feeling they are super human at times.

[maturin 12]

They can see dead bodies through walls even when not grouped, the ignore them until they turn around.

They know about dead units in the group instantly even if miles away.

They Know the location of all ammo boxes.

They can take ammo form invisible boxes or units.

They can take ammo from boxes 100 meters in the air.

So even if they can't see living units you do get a feeling they are super human at times.

Oh, come on. That is exactly two glitches. Let's be reasonable. Of course they are superhuman. They are Artificial Intelligence. They are controlled by the game, and obviously the game knows where all its parts and components are, and what it is doing. The AI are simply forced to forget some of the things that the game knows. However, the devs forgot to establish that information embargo on dead troops. And for simplicity's sake, the AI have only to be standing within a meter of the X,Y coordinate of an ammo box. Because why the hell would the exact placement of ammo boxes be a tactically important issue? I suppose now there's at least one sadist mission maker out there who can't make the player waste time by crawling through grass trying to find a pistol that someone dropped. At least not if there are AI subordinates with him.

[msy 22]

Oh, come on. That is exactly two glitches. Let's be reasonable. Of course they are superhuman. They are Artificial Intelligence. They are controlled by the game, and obviously the game knows where all its parts and components are, and what it is doing. The AI are simply forced to forget some of the things that the game knows. However, the devs forgot to establish that information embargo on dead troops. And for simplicity's sake, the AI have only to be standing within a meter of the X,Y coordinate of an ammo box. Because why the hell would the exact placement of ammo boxes be a tactically important issue? I suppose now there's at least one sadist mission maker out there who can't make the player waste time by crawling through grass trying to find a pistol that someone dropped. At least not if there are AI subordinates with him.

Yes the devs forgot again, but we have reminded them again and again.

[mariodu62 5]

@oukej

Found why AI are stupid, we use the fire function nd they stop shooting then.

if("Chemlight_green" in (magazines _x))exitWith{_x fire ["ChemlightGreenMuzzle","ChemlightGreenMuzzle","Chemlight_green"];};

used with foreach of course

[Bouben 3]

This is a simple, ridiculous design flaw that should be fixed.

Two separated teams under your command (red and blue) 150 meters apart. You order all your men (in a firefight) to take cover. Suddenly, both teams are trying to regroup together in bounding overwatch until they are in one formation and taking cover. Stupid, slow, clunky and absolutely, utterly, completely unnecessary.

Please devs, just disable the stick-in-formation tendencies and regrouping when the AI is ordered to take cover. Just make them duck under the first cover they can find nearby and give them a rest with those stupid formations that only lead to AI getting killed.

---

Also, when AI is ordered to regroup with YOU (you, the leader) why are your team leaders forcing the guys (their subordinates) already regrouped with you to regroup with them just so they can move in one pack to you and regroup again? That is incredibly stupid because most of the time you use regroup for units that are rarely really far from you so there is no need to force them moving in a formation and you also risk lives of units having to run from their cover just so they can regroup with someone. It would be wise to disable this behaviour too. Just make them run to you as fast as possible without caring about formations. One use MOVE command when ordering far away unit anyway.

Thank you.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Bouben
grammar

[bullet purveyor 85]

Also, the find cover command is completely broken after you have issued a stance command to your troops:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=17392