Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[2nd ranger 282]

Sonic cracks are too loud over distance. I can hear cracks clearly from 200m as if they're passing within 25m.

I'm digging most of the new gunshot tweaks. The P07 and Rook are satisfying. The MX is more tolerable, but one of the single shot samples is really ugly, it's like it's doubled up or something and it's very scratchy like the previous version of the sound. It's most noticable when using the MXSW.

Also, indoor attenuation is muffling the door sounds, and other things like direct speech. And there's no attenuation in "Land_u_House_Small_01_V1_F".

Edited April 2, 2015 by 2nd Ranger

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Again and again guys - how about complaining that stuff is too quiet - start complaining that all the REST is too LOUD. ;) Which is clearly the case with arma3 currently. Proof = volume comparison video of mine.

True. But april 8th is all BIS has until the release. Meaning that it's best to just adjust things to the current loud standard now, and when the release happens, we can deal with the whole loudness crap until everything is finally (if ever) adjusted to the right volume after the release.

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

Pretty much this. Gunss are way to quiet over distance. Plus bullet impacts are too quiet in my opinion.

Yup. Gunshots are quiet at a distance. Suppressors shouldn't be heard after 200-300 ish meters according to a personal source of mine who fired suppressors before. Also, cracks maybe, but for certain, bullet impacts need to be louder, and more thump.

On another note, however, bigger bullets, need louder, more prominent snaps.

Edited April 1, 2015 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[roshnak 41]

bigger bullets, need louder, more prominent snaps.

Uh, why?

Edit: I mean, is the size of the bullet the determining factor in the loudness of its sonic boom?

Edited April 1, 2015 by roshnak

[audiocustoms 375]

Mega is right... Rule #1 in audio engineering = if a signal is too quiet, turn the rest DOWN or start with a propper frequency management :)

[vegeta897 13]

Somebody created a ticket asking to use the inverse square law for arma3's volume falloffs to make it more realistic.

Bad idea. Realism often does not work in a video game. Why not? Watch this video:

I might be stupid, but shouldn't you be rescaling the values he provided in the ticket to the actual dynamic range possible on a computer? Instead of 6DB per distance doubled, how about 0.25DB, or some smaller value? It's 6 in real life because the dynamic range in real life is much higher. It would only make sense to scale this down for used in the game.

[-Coulum- 35]

I mean, is the size of the bullet the determining factor in the loudness of its sonic boom?

I am no expert but I believe yes. The loudness of the crack is dependant on the volume of air being displaced. Bigger bullet is pusshing aside more air... But take that with a grain of salt, maybe someone else is more knowledgeable.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I am no expert but I believe yes. The loudness of the crack is dependant on the volume of air being displaced. Bigger bullet is pusshing aside more air... But take that with a grain of salt, maybe someone else is more knowledgeable.

Pretty much. Sonic Cracks are produced by the bullet breaking the sound barrier. Thus, the bigger the round, the bigger wake, the bigger the sound. This is why when say, an F-18 breaks the sound barrier, it could shatter an entire sky scraper's windows, and you get a much larger BANG, than a bullet would make.

[roshnak 41]

Yes, but are the differences in the sizes of bullets enough to substantially change the loudness of the sonic boom they create? I'm sure different bullets create sonic booms of different loudnesses, but, practically speaking, is it enough to be noticable and/or worth implementing in the game other than maybe one for small arms and one for larger caliber weapons like cannons? Like, would someone be able to say that a certain bullet crack was from a bigger bullet than a previous bullet crack, or would they all just sound like cracks?

I've never been in a position to experience bullet cracks, but I asked someone with some experience and he indicated that the muzzle report and impact sound were more useful to him in identifying weapon type than the sonic boom created by the bullet. That's just one person's experience, though, and it's not like he was specifically listening for differences in bullet cracks. It's not easy to find information about the loudness of bullet cracks relative to each other.

Edited April 2, 2015 by roshnak

[megagoth1702 252]

I might be stupid, but shouldn't you be rescaling the values he provided in the ticket to the actual dynamic range possible on a computer? Instead of 6DB per distance doubled, how about 0.25DB, or some smaller value? It's 6 in real life because the dynamic range in real life is much higher. It would only make sense to scale this down for used in the game.

You're not stupid, I get your very valid point which is why I in the video I say you can not use inverse square law in it's raw form. The idea is good, it's good to have rules of volume fall off. It's just the question of defining min & max values and interpolating inbetween them. But that's up to BIS to decide.

[Maxzy 12]

I don't like these new sonic cracks, they do not sound like cracks or snaps if you will, more like clicks. In some cases it sounds exactly like a couple of drumsticks clash - I was in a music studio a couple of days ago and had a pleasure of banging on a drum plant for a couple of hours, so I know what I'm talking about =). I actually like the old ones much better - someone (I think it was megagoth) posted a link to real record - to me it sounded pretty much like what was earlier. It was snappy and sharp, not how it is right now. Maybe samples themselves are good and what makes them unappealing are those attenuation filtrers or something and it all just needs some fine tuning, I don't know.

Now to what I do like - new bullet hits are awesome, especially metallic ones. Also interior shooting got some love - that was unexpected, and as any unexpected surprise - it's a double pleasure =).

Also, is it me or the overall sound volume became a little lower? I don't think I touched volume slider in game, and it seems like all sounds are a little quieter than before.

Hoping that grenade explosions will get some so much needed attention next =). I don't mind the samples, but they don't get muffled over distance is what I mean.

Edited April 2, 2015 by MAXZY

[Brisse 78]

Ouch. The new sound for Mar-10 is nice, but it was a bit loud compared to other weapons so it hurts my ears :(

[St. Jimmy 272]

I don't like these new sonic cracks, they do not sound like cracks or snaps if you will, more like clicks. In some cases it sounds exactly like a couple of drumsticks clash - I was in a music studio a couple of days ago and had a pleasure of banging on a drum plant for a couple of hours, so I know what I'm talking about =). I actually like the old ones much better - someone (I think it was megagoth) posted a link to real record - to me it sounded pretty much like what was earlier. It was snappy and sharp, not how it is right now.

Agreed. When I hear all of those snaps they don't sound anything what I've heard in firing range. Sounds too plastic and plain.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Yes, but are the differences in the sizes of bullets enough to substantially change the loudness of the sonic boom they create? I'm sure different bullets create sonic booms of different loudnesses, but, practically speaking, is it enough to be noticable and/or worth implementing in the game other than maybe one for small arms and one for larger caliber weapons like cannons? Like, would someone be able to say that a certain bullet crack was from a bigger bullet than a previous bullet crack, or would they all just sound like cracks?

I've never been in a position to experience bullet cracks, but I asked someone with some experience and he indicated that the muzzle report and impact sound were more useful to him in identifying weapon type than the sonic boom created by the bullet. That's just one person's experience, though, and it's not like he was specifically listening for differences in bullet cracks. It's not easy to find information about the loudness of bullet cracks relative to each other.

Yes, it's work it. I don't want a Tank Shell to sound like a 9mm round. Nor do I want a .50 cal round to sound like a 5.56 round. Make sense? I watched a few videos to be some reference, and while there wasn't much, I came across some guys screwing with snipers by waving a jacket on a broom stick. You can hear the snap of that sniper round, and guess what. That snap from that sniper, what ever he was shooting, was about as loud as what is imagine he fired. The snap sounded like a Kord gun.

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

I don't like these new sonic cracks, they do not sound like cracks or snaps if you will, more like clicks. In some cases it sounds exactly like a couple of drumsticks clash - I was in a music studio a couple of days ago and had a pleasure of banging on a drum plant for a couple of hours, so I know what I'm talking about =). I actually like the old ones much better - someone (I think it was megagoth) posted a link to real record - to me it sounded pretty much like what was earlier. It was snappy and sharp, not how it is right now.

Really? I actually felt that these snaps were a much better improvement over the previous. In fact, I like the snaps since Yesterday better than that of DragonFyre. Though, the ones they added yesterday still need work. I do agree though, that maybe they should just see if they can get a realistic one like from that Professional soundcloud page someone posted. That snap nearest the end was the best quality real snap I ever heard.

[roberthammer 582]

Ouch. The new sound for Mar-10 is nice, but it was a bit loud compared to other weapons so it hurts my ears :(

Yea , sound is good - only its too loud

also those Sonic cracks still sound like making a popcorn than actual sonic crack

[CaptainObvious 95]

Nice one on the MAR-10, really digging it, as well as the indoors attenuation :angel:

[2nd ranger 282]

The MAR-10 is slightly improved (just re-mixed, I think), but they have kept a version similar to the previous sound as one of the shot variations, which sounds kind of weird. The original Mar-10 sounded like a heavy barbell being dropped onto a weight rack. That sound can still be heard in one of the variations, but not in another. So one shot has this heavy metallic clang in it, and the next one doesn't. Same sort of thing with the MX, but not as noticable (although I always notice it because I really hated that scratchy sound the MX had before, and it's still audible in one of the samples).

Edited April 2, 2015 by 2nd Ranger

[roshnak 41]

Yes, it's work it. I don't want a Tank Shell to sound like a 9mm round. Nor do I want a .50 cal round to sound like a 5.56 round. Make sense?

Maybe? I get that a tank shell will probably make a significantly louder sonic boom than a 9mm bullet. What I'm not sure of is if a .50 cal will make a significantly louder sonic boom than a 7.62, or if a 7.62 will make a significantly louder boom than a 5.56 will. What I'm asking is, does someone know at what point bullets start making obviously louder sonic booms?

As for the video you mention, it's not particularly useful in this case.

Edited April 2, 2015 by roshnak

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Maybe? I get that a tank shell will probably make a significantly louder sonic boom than a 9mm bullet. What I'm not sure of is if a .50 cal will make a significantly louder sonic boom than a 7.62, or if a 7.62 will make a significantly louder boom than a 5.56 will. What I'm asking is, does someone know at what point bullets start making obviously louder sonic booms?

As for the video you mention, it's not particularly useful in this case.

Yes, significantly louder, probably so. But not just louder is the case, as loudness is also being close to that round passing by. But i guess what i meant to say, was more distinct sound. Small arms snaps would sound the same, 5.56, below would sound different from say, 7.62 or a .50 cal. I would assume a .50 cal snap would have a lower frequency than smaller rounds, but still be a snap, if that makes sense.

[megagoth1702 252]

Yes, it's work it. I don't want a Tank Shell to sound like a 9mm round. Nor do I want a .50 cal round to sound like a 5.56 round. Make sense? I watched a few videos to be some reference, and while there wasn't much, I came across some guys screwing with snipers by waving a jacket on a broom stick. You can hear the snap of that sniper round, and guess what. That snap from that sniper, what ever he was shooting, was about as loud as what is imagine he fired. The snap sounded like a Kord gun.

While I respect your opinion on how loud stuff should sound so that YOU like it I really have to bang on this time and time again because apparently people don't listen.

The mics on these mobile phones are NOT made to record anythng with dynamics and loudness differences. They are produced to record a steady flow of information (voice) so that it can be (data)compressed and sent via network easily. That's it! They were not made to record guns, snaps, vehicles or whatever! Until proven otherwise I claim that phones & small cameras will NEVER deliver any kind of respectable sound quality that's usable as a reference for video games by a guy who has never shot rifles before. If you have shot firearms you kinda know what to expect and you fill in the blanks in the youtube videos. And even then it's still not 100% reliable information really.

I do agree though, that maybe they should just see if they can get a realistic one like from that Professional soundcloud page someone posted.

I am the only crazy guy here posting stuff like that, start remembering my nick my friend. ;)

https://soundcloud.com/therecordist/supersonic-subsonic-bullets

I assume the audio is (dynamic range)uncompressed and the way I know The Recordist - he had the gun about 300m away from the shooting point which means it's very, very quiet.

If you compare a sonic crack next to you and a gun next to you the guns are louder than sonic cracks. But if a gun is far away (like 300m) the sonic crack is louder. So if you are firing in full auto you should not be able to 100% clearly hear them.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

While I respect your opinion on how loud stuff should sound so that YOU like it I really have to bang on this time and time again because apparently people don't listen.

The mics on these mobile phones are NOT made to record anythng with dynamics and loudness differences. They are produced to record a steady flow of information (voice) so that it can be (data)compressed and sent via network easily. That's it! They were not made to record guns, snaps, vehicles or whatever! Until proven otherwise I claim that phones & small cameras will NEVER deliver any kind of respectable sound quality that's usable as a reference for video games by a guy who has never shot rifles before. If you have shot firearms you kinda know what to expect and you fill in the blanks in the youtube videos. And even then it's still not 100% reliable information really.

I am the only crazy guy here posting stuff like that, start remembering my nick my friend. ;)

https://soundcloud.com/therecordist/supersonic-subsonic-bullets

I assume the audio is (dynamic range)uncompressed and the way I know The Recordist - he had the gun about 300m away from the shooting point which means it's very, very quiet.

If you compare a sonic crack next to you and a gun next to you the guns are louder than sonic cracks. But if a gun is far away (like 300m) the sonic crack is louder. So if you are firing in full auto you should not be able to 100% clearly hear them.

I was actually contemplating weather that video was good enough representation of how load the snap was, only because it was recorded with a Potato. But i thought that since they were talking and laughing during the snaps, it would be a comparison of loudness based on vocal input, and the snaps, in which case, i found too compressed to tell which was louder anyhow. Also, i'm not basing my opinion on how loud i want it, i don't want it louder to fit my liking. What ever makes the Audio as realistic as possible, that is what i'm looking forward to. However, you have a far more valid point than i do, and yeah, no more Youtube Patoto recorded videos, i promise.

As for that link you posted, that sound awesome. But, how loud is that snap really?

[supercereal4 29]

Agreed. When I hear all of those snaps they don't sound anything what I've heard in firing range. Sounds too plastic and plain.

I really hope you haven't heard any snaps at the firing range, because that means they were shooting at you :D

[l337acc 15]

The new Release Candidate is a big step in the right direction (regarding the sound design). When I fired my weapon I couldn't believe how realistic it sounded. Firing off my pistol and I can almost smell the gun powder. Firing inside a building or in close quarters is also incredible, and rivals JSRS in a big way. Great job, BI.

With that said, there are a few areas that can use some improvement. Sound clipping is still an issue, and I believe megagoth1702 is going to make some waves (no pun intended) with his philosophy on sound design, and I think BI should take note. Furthermore, I really really hope that BI continues to improve on the sound design and that the explosions/sonic cracks are very much WIP (or they have something up their sleave). Right now all the explosions still sound the same, and I can't stand them. And the sonic cracks sound artificial. What they need is to also utilize the weapon tailing so they actually sound like they exist in the environment.

But other than that, I'm really happy to see the overhaul of the sound design.

[twisted 128]

the sounds are getting better and better. great work.

think the bullet snaps as they pass could be bit bigger and that impact on the ground around you need to be sharper. Those bullets hitting tranfer a lot of energy.

[qantaqa1987 10]

Far away shooting sounds weird. Tanks firing 1km away sounds like muffled thunder, should be more like

. Firearms you can barely hear. Could the grenade explosion get some attention too?

[Brisse 78]

I really hope you haven't heard any snaps at the firing range, because that means they were shooting at you :D

I actually heard snaps at the firing range when I was in the military. If one guy was at the 100m range on one side of the range, you could go to the 50m range on the other side and still be outside the dangerous zone. At that point, you started to hear the bullet snaps. Also, there's the fact that people in the military are shooting live ammunition outside the environment that you think of as a civilian firing range (where one cannot even take one step forward without someone screaming "hold fire"). You have to go through drills where you are advancing in the terrain while friends are laying down covering fire with live ammunition. It is possible to hear bullet snaps in those scenarios even though you are following all the rules.

These are the rules we had to follow: http://dokument.forsvarsmakten.se/SakI/saki_2013/webb/SakI_Ehv/Ehv_Kap_08/Ehv_Kap_08.htm

It's in swedish, but the illustrations says a lot so there's no need to understand the words.