Ladder Animation and Sound

[Gattobuono 10]

So far I'm really liking Arma3 alpha, especially the soldier movement which feel much more natural and fluid than previous versions ... with the exception of the horrible ladder animation. I don't know if this is just a place-holder, but it seems exactly the same as the Arma 2 horrible ladder animation.

1. Why do I have to press a key to climb a ladder, can't I just walk up to the ladder and climb it as is the case in most contemporary fps'?

2. The mechanical like nature of the animation, and the fact that my hands keep climbing even when I've run out of ladder (waiting for my feet to catch up) is a real immersion breaker.

3. I hear no footstep sounds on the ladder!

Keep up the great work.

[EDcase 87]

1) So that you don't start climbing if you don't want to. I think this is the best way to do it.

2) The hands moving when there is no ladder is a bit bad but its actually very difficult to prevent that because unlike other games there are several different types of ladder in Arma and they would each need a separate animation for the hands.

3) Will be fixed I'm sure. (especially if someone makes a ticket for it)

[SmallBlackSheep 0]

I agree with this.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

2) The hands moving when there is no ladder is a bit bad but its actually very difficult to prevent that because unlike other games there are several different types of ladder in Arma and they would each need a separate animation for the hands.

It wouldn't be nearly that difficult. All they need is a transition animation from ladder to surface.

[liquidpinky 11]

It wouldn't be nearly that difficult. All they need is a transition animation from ladder to surface.

Would still require a few different animations though.

Example, going from ladder to flat roof or ladder to walkway with railings require different techniques in real life.

Done a ton of ladder climbing thanks to my job and there are load of ways to use them as well.

Some trades are taught to put their hands on the rungs, others to use the sides and only have your feet on the rungs. Second way prevents falling to your death if someone went up in front of you with muddy boots.

The A2 ladder sound was pretty much spot on for an industrial fixed ladder though.

I would like to see more ladder animations though, they are one of the few things that stick out like a sore thumb at the moment.

[smookie 11]

Havent yet get to ladders really and the current ingame system is not helping. Definately i will research possible solutions to make more immersive.

[kremator 1064]

Cheers Smookie. Will be awesome if you are involved :) No pressure...

[Kemeros 1]

I ran into this while having fun climbing the radio towers for some evil camping in wasteland. It indeed feels a bit weird when climbing. Glad to know Smookie is on the case!

While we're on the subject of ladders. Would it be possible to add a slide down feature? It's hard to flee from a tower under fire when your guy is taking his sweet time going down the ladder haha. Can always give a damage penalty if done from too high.

Any thoughts?

[toiletguy 1]

I'm impressed with BI devs because they're down here in the forums just like an indie devs. EA will never talk to us lol.

[nikiforos 450]

EA wouldn't even read our posts :cool:

[smookie 11]

I ran into this while having fun climbing the radio towers for some evil camping in wasteland. It indeed feels a bit weird when climbing. Glad to know Smookie is on the case!

While we're on the subject of ladders. Would it be possible to add a slide down feature? It's hard to flee from a tower under fire when your guy is taking his sweet time going down the ladder haha. Can always give a damage penalty if done from too high.

Any thoughts?

I had some plans for this but this probably will become a nonofficial mod as it will not look decent enough (or make sense in terms of immersiveness).

[marcai 1]

I had some plans for this but this probably will become a nonofficial mod as it will not look decent enough (or make sense in terms of immersiveness).

I've seen you put that in two threads now, and it's plain teasing, I tell you! Go on, be a rebel and sneak it in a patch when nobody's looking. Be the hero Arma 3 forum deserves!

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Great to see you posting in here Smookie. Developer -> user discussion is such a critically positive bullet point that you guys (BI) can tack on to your list of "things that make BI #1". Much appreciated.

Now my views on the ladder thing:

-the floating hands animation has to go, that stuff could pass in 2008/9 when Arma 2 was released, but not today, and with Arma 3 having such heavy emphasis on animation improvement this one is a no brainer as an imperative bug to get fixed properly

-suggestion for proper ladder animation would be to slow it down significantly. these soldiers are supposed to be carrying a ton of gear and not only does the weight make it harder to climb, it should also make it a lot more awkward and difficult to move up the ladder. the climbing speed should be heavy and slow, take extra notes from Metro 2033 ladder climbing animation please, as this is the best one I've seen in a video game to date:

(ladder starts around 1:10 mark)

-sounds should be a very easy fix and I'd expect them to be decent quality, this is a 2013 game right? :P

All that being said I wouldn't expect anything major until at least Beta on the ladder fixes as theres much more important stuff to be fixed. But please BI, you really have to do something about it before the game goes Gold. Nothing is worse than showing a potential Arma 3 buyer the game and how immersive it is when suddenly... ladder. I shake my head looking at it because I know what they're going to say the second I start climbing it hahaha.

[seamusgod 1]

1) So that you don't start climbing if you don't want to. I think this is the best way to do it.

2) The hands moving when there is no ladder is a bit bad but its actually very difficult to prevent that because unlike other games there are several different types of ladder in Arma and they would each need a separate animation for the hands.

3) Will be fixed I'm sure. (especially if someone makes a ticket for it)

actually, the game only has one type of ladder, it just missing the part of the animation where the player moves off, so it ends up looking like he's climbing air.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Is it possible to use inverse kinematics to have the hands and feet hit the proper spot on the wrungs?

[nodunit 397]

1) So that you don't start climbing if you don't want to. I think this is the best way to do it.

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you been playing a game wherein you automaticly move up the ladder and did so when you did not mean to?

On other point, glad to hear you'll be getting involved on it at some point one way or another Smookie.

[Gattobuono 10]

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you been playing a game wherein you automaticly move up the ladder and did so when you did not mean to?

On other point, glad to hear you'll be getting involved on it at some point one way or another Smookie.

Exactly. I play a lot of BF3 for example, which has a ton of ladders, and I never have the problem of accidentally climbing or descending one. This has been successfully implemented in a lot of fps' without problems.

I also agree with the poster who points out that the climb animation is way too fast. The whole climb ladder sequence as it is just makes me want to avoid climbing ladders!

Thanks for getting involved Smookie, I know that there's still a long way to go with this game, but the ladder thing is an ugly element in an otherwise beautiful game :)

Saluti da Gattobuono

[liquidpinky 11]

Going up ladders isnt the real problem, getting back down is.

Either the fps method or the one currently used in a3 can result in falling to your death. Fps by missing the ladder an a3 with that age old bug of the animation failing just as you get on the top of the ladder.

As for the climb speed, i can do it that fast for real, pretty hairy with wet feet and carring a full rucksack of tools(weighs in at 38kg) though. Also on most industrial platforms they are staged to give you breaks on the way up, no way in hell you can do 100 feet in one go. They should add fatigue to long ladder climbs.

[chrisb 196]

Always make me smile the ladders, especially wooden one’s with the metal sounds, great..:rolleyes:

Trying to find the spot to get back on, as said, can be pretty painful.:butbut:.

[Smurf 12]

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you been playing a game wherein you automaticly move up the ladder and did so when you did not mean to?

On other point, glad to hear you'll be getting involved on it at some point one way or another Smookie.

It happens a lot in any Source Engine game, even with HL1 and mods. Happens because you don't need to be facing the ladder to climb it, just by passing near of it you climb it. Annoying.

If that can be avoided, I agree on a no need to press a button to climb it. The problem is (and always had been, in many games) when you wanna to go down. In A1\2 you have that sweet spot to "enter" the ladder.

They should add fatigue to long ladder climbs.

Double it for guille suit users :D

[Jex 1]

At least you don't need to aim at the rungs anymore and be pinpoint accurate!

[Kemeros 1]

I had some plans for this but this probably will become a nonofficial mod as it will not look decent enough (or make sense in terms of immersiveness).

This feels like something that should be in the core game though. I do hope you find a solution for this and that meet your immersion standards. Not everything should be left to modding. Ladders and climbing over stuff(fences and ledges) are 2 examples of things that would be useful and realistic in all games, not just modded missions.

My 2 cents.

You are still in alpha, now is the right time to test such features. :)

[bad benson 1733]

the main problems i see with ladders are:

1. the animation goes on for too long which leads to the character holding onto air if he reaches the top of the ladder. http://i.cubeupload.com/ojzXNJ.jpg

2. the animation isn't very pretty. it's sped up which doesn't help the looks. i'm pretty sure it will be replaced though since it's the same from arma 2 (arma1 even?).

3. the action to use the ladder (among other actions like getting in a boat from the water) is too hard to access in a lot of cases.

2. and 3. are easy to fix. i don't know about 1. but as far as i know the ladder, thus the area where the animation is played, is defined by a start and an end memory point inside the model. there's just some code needed to make the character play another animation once he reaches the end point. this would only be needed for the top of the ladder.

i don't know how "hard" it would be to put that in since that's one of the parts that is hard coded and not accessible for modders. but sometimes it feels like some core features are being left untouched for some reason and all that is said is that it's too hard. it almost sounds like the current team is just modding the engine to a certain degree and has no access to some of the core stuff.

i mean i don't see how it would interfere with the current system. but i'm just speculating.

[Gattobuono 10]

Just a few examples :-)

BF3 ladder anim:

CoD ladder anim:

FEAR ladder anim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_29mmtP8hA

FARCRY3 ladder anim (at 3:15):

[chortles 263]

I had some plans for this but this probably will become a nonofficial mod as it will not look decent enough (or make sense in terms of immersiveness).

Wait, you mean Arma 3 may not natively have ladders and units able to climb up ladders or other objects???