ARMA 2: OA beta build 77159

[suma 8]

So in other words: the driver didn't recieve an explicit command, he isn't responsible for anything, thus he is unitReady all the time. There is no command for him to complete. Right? Really?

The gunner/commander of said vehicle told him (implicitly) to drive somewhere. Sure, it's no explicit or official command to him, but shouldn't this count as command nevertheless?

I understand your view has sense and it could be implemented this way. However what I describe is how it works under the hood (the inner workings of the AI). I will attempt to go into more detail: When you are a group commander and there is a tank in your group, you can notice any commands you might attempt to give to the tank driver are translated into commands to the tank commander. This is because the driver is not able to take any commands. In this sense the driver is not a unit, he is not included in the group commanding structure at all. The driver is "directed" by the tank commander. Those directions are not "commands" in the same sense as normal group commands (you can notice they are not confirmed in any way and no completion is ever reported for them). Asking vehicle crew other than commander about their "ready" status is something we did not expect, did not define and it could return anything.

[rübe 127]

Ok, thanks. I can see, where this is coming from and I guess we can live with this just fine, aslong one is aware of this fact... *heading over to the biki

Still it might be worth it to make these "non-units" inheriting their commanders unitReady status to make that command more reliable.

But there are most probably other, more fun things to do :D

[TRexian 0]

Something I just noticed in this beta with teamswitching, although it could have come up earlier, is that if I die as my initial starting player-unit, the music starts, but then I have the option to teamswitch, and if I do, the music continues to play.

Granted, it is nice music. But, the feeling of combat while listening to music tends to take away from the immersion. (Iron Eagle, notwithstanding.) :)

If someone can confirm it, perhaps we can get a ticket. :)

[rübe 127]

I guess you could simply fade the music manually onTeamSwitch, no?

[Alwarren 2766]

From the limited testing I've done they don't always seem to run ahead. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that they move ahead because there is better cover when they are under fire.

I don't know, but I have seen them run ahead even in plain desert terrain, so I don't really think it is cover related. And they form a perfect Vee shape, just with a very steep angle. It looked intentional.

[mr.g-c 6]

For example, I have half of my squad engaging a group of enemies. Other half is on other side of road, behind a hill, where I'm inside a Humvee. This second element is not under fire, neither has line of sight to any of the enemies. However, the simple task of ordering them to embark the Humvee takes ages, because after the order is issued, they look around, run, look, run, look, and then enter the vehicle. In the end they comply, but the lack of urgency in executing certain arguably simple actions is what bothers me most.

Have you tried to split your group into and put them in those "sub-groups" with "team-red", "team-green", whatever?

If so, does the "second element" as you named them, still behave that way?

If yes, we should suggest a change in that behavior via the CIT.

[icebreakr 3129]

takes ages, because after the order is issued, they look around, run, look, run, look, and then enter the vehicle.

^^this. I have a mission where our squad has to arrest a druglord in villa and transport him to Prison.

When he (AI) is captured he is assigned to the Alpha1 squad. When leader issued him to enter our huey it took ages for him to get in... enemy rushes in with merc ah6s when he is captured, so we've had to repeat the mission several times because enemy FFAR rockets hit out transport and killed druglord, therefor causing a mission failure. Mind that it usually takes 10-45min to reach that villa... and AI even at one time took a nice slow strawl around the villa to enter the chopper that was like 5m in front of him :)

Pathfinding should be optimized, like making a AI entering vehicle a high priority process?

Funny stuff: AI usually cancels the boarding of vehicle if for example one human player gets quicker into his "planned" slot first. Instead he would pick another "seat" he looks stupidly and rather takes a strawl stating "no can do" :) even when lives are in danger... and usually after that, lost.

[maddogx 13]

Pathfinding should be optimized, like making a AI entering vehicle a high priority process?

Funny stuff: AI usually cancels the boarding of vehicle if for example one human player gets quicker into his "planned" slot first. Instead he would pick another "seat" he looks stupidly and rather takes a strawl stating "no can do" :) even when lives are in danger... and usually after that, lost.

^^ Absolutely, all of this!

[fruity_rudy 16]

^^this. I have a mission where our squad has to arrest a druglord in villa and transport him to Prison.

When he (AI) is captured he is assigned to the Alpha1 squad. When leader issued him to enter our huey it took ages for him to get in... enemy rushes in with merc ah6s when he is captured, so we've had to repeat the mission several times because enemy FFAR rockets hit out transport and killed druglord, therefor causing a mission failure. Mind that it usually takes 10-45min to reach that villa... and AI even at one time took a nice slow strawl around the villa to enter the chopper that was like 5m in front of him :)

Pathfinding should be optimized, like making a AI entering vehicle a high priority process?

Funny stuff: AI usually cancels the boarding of vehicle if for example one human player gets quicker into his "planned" slot first. Instead he would pick another "seat" he looks stupidly and rather takes a strawl stating "no can do" :) even when lives are in danger... and usually after that, lost.

I really think this AI tweaking/fixing should be highest priority. For me arma is still the sickest thingy, only because you can control AI.

And mr. ice is right in every word, because it is so god damn annoying.

I'd prefer to press 7-danger, cause a squadleader in real life also tells his guys to prepare for enemy contact.. so they act in danger mode, then 7-4 again and they are in safe-mode , no matter what happens, they stay in safe-mode and enter vehicles or follow in formation, no matter what happens around them

It's like your mother is telling you, finish your lunch..so you HAVE to do it..so should Ai..

I even wonder why there's still the option relax if you press 7, if it makes no sense..just remove it then or people will be confused

EDIT:

I have no clue about editing and stuff, but i remember using the editor once, you could make a unit move around , with waypoints and change their mood (no changes, go to combat mode, walk at full speed etc.) ..is it that complicated to assign this "relax " thing from the editor to 7-4 ?! Sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but i really don't get why this stuff isn't working..

Edited January 18, 2011 by Fruity_Rudy

[mrcash2009 0]

^^ Absolutely, all of this!

I completely second and third this.

[rundll.exe 12]

I agree that getting AI boarding any vehicle is a pita when there is even a little bit of combat around.

It shouldn't be to hard to make it ignore the surroundings when a board command is given? (or better, ignore the surroundings if the AI is closer to the vehicle than lets say, 200m)

[Colossus 2]

I've noticed that grouped planes doesn't respond very well to the flyInHeight, even on flat surfaces. They keep going up and down violently which isn't helping them much to get to their correct altitude.

I'm not sure if it's due to this fix, however:

[76758] Fixed: AI Helicopters wobbling up and down (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/14410).

But it seemed to be working much better on the current stable version of 1.57 then the 77159 build.

Unless I'm using the script wrong or if it's a known issue, I'll make a ticket.

Edited January 18, 2011 by colossus

[langgis08 10]

I really think this AI tweaking/fixing should be highest priority For me arma is still the sickest thingy, only because you can control AI.

100% absolutely right, my son ;)

It's like your mother is telling you, finish your lunch..so you HAVE to do it

This one, I must say, depends on how old you are ... or ... if you're mother's around or not during lunch time :p

But I can tell from my kids: they really act like Arma AI, sometimes :D and I love them

Edited January 18, 2011 by langgis08

[NoRailgunner 0]

Fully agree to high priority for AI fixing/tweaking and improvments!

+ switch the commands priority in action menu eg "open door", "close door" should be at the bottom of the list. On top something like "use secondary weapon/launcher", "rearm at ammo cache"

Perhaps it would be good if all BIS devs are forced to play A2+OA=CO with AI to see + feel how good and bad they really are - ingame! :p:D

[maddogx 13]

Perhaps it would be good if all BIS devs are forced to play A2+OA=CO with AI to see + feel how good and bad they really are - ingame! :p:D

Oh, the horror! How could you even suggest that? ;)

But alternatively we could torture them with something else, and I'm sure you'll agree this is almost even more evil: repro steps. Easy to follow, to the point and completely reliable repro steps. Posted on dev-heaven for all to see and reproduce.

The mere thought sends shivers down my spine.

[LeadCommando65 10]

I'd prefer to press 7-danger, cause a squadleader in real life also tells his guys to prepare for enemy contact.. so they act in danger mode, then 7-4 again and they are in safe-mode , no matter what happens, they stay in safe-mode and enter vehicles or follow in formation, no matter what happens around them

It's like your mother is telling you, finish your lunch..so you HAVE to do it..so should Ai..

Yeah, that's it. AI in Arma2 behaves way too much independent. I know many people requested that, but I think the AI programming and the technology doesn't have the power at the time to allow an AI to act freely in the way it is applied here. The AI even decides when to shoot if you have told them to hold fire. I often have the feeling of loosing control over the team when I'm leading. In good old OFP days you could be sure that the AI you are controlling is that much dumb that it

(a) is easily killed if you don't care, BUT

(b) also follows every single command of yours very strictly :eek:

Now it is much more complicated to control your squad cause you don't know how they'll act in certain situations (e.g. shooting even if hold fire is called out; thats reality, but inapropriate for effective gaming) and cause every action of AIs takes very long to be completed (especially under fire). Additionally you can't accelerate the process by setting their behaviour to another state because they do it on their own! This takes away much reliability of the AI mates and a great portion of the leadership feeling is lost. :(

[NeMeSiS 11]

I'd prefer to press 7-danger, cause a squadleader in real life also tells his guys to prepare for enemy contact.. so they act in danger mode, then 7-4 again and they are in safe-mode , no matter what happens, they stay in safe-mode and enter vehicles or follow in formation, no matter what happens around them

It's like your mother is telling you, finish your lunch..so you HAVE to do it..so should Ai..

A much better solution(IMO) would be too keep the AI's independentness and give us a 'Run you lazy bastards!' command which would make them stop looking for/giving cover and make them stop engaging targets in combat mode until given a 'Yeah you can do whatever the fuck you want to do now' command, restoring the default behaviour.

[myshaak 0]

Pathfinding should be optimized, like making a AI entering vehicle a high priority process?

Funny stuff: AI usually cancels the boarding of vehicle if for example one human player gets quicker into his "planned" slot first. Instead he would pick another "seat" he looks stupidly and rather takes a strawl stating "no can do" :) even when lives are in danger... and usually after that, lost.

Yep, similar stuff haunted me for ages. When under attack (AI in COMBAT) AI tend to enter the vehicle one at a time while others provide cover. That would be nice, except for the fact that in like 90% of situations I order the troops to board a vehicle under fire I don't mean "OK laddies, let's rest our feet and let that nice looking truck take us to base," I mean "Sh*t, sh*t, sh*t, vastly outnumbered, quickly get in there and let's GTFO of here!" ... and that doesn't work very well :)

[Alex72 1]

A much better solution(IMO) would be too keep the AI's independentness and give us a 'Run you lazy bastards!' command which would make them stop looking for/giving cover and make them stop engaging targets in combat mode until given a 'Yeah you can do whatever the fuck you want to do now' command, restoring the default behaviour.

We had that not too long ago. ;) The introduction of auto danger made us lose control although getting better combat savvy squaddies. I agree though. Some fail-safe order to give when you really have to get out of a hairy situation would be optimal.

[krycek 349]

I agree with the others,the auto danger mode should be overridable for player led squads.I don't feel in command at all when shit hits the fan or when I wanna get out with my team.For AI leading other squads it's ok but don't take away my control over the team when I know 50 times better what's best for my squad instead of them.

For ex. I had a mission where my AT guy got killed and a BMP2 was heading towards us but I still had time to get my squad in the truck if they weren't stuck in danger mode,well you know the result we got butchered because they decided that boarding the truck it's a massive operation of run,look,run,look and many etc.

Also noticed the weird formation thingie in the latest beta,they don't circle around anymore(thx for this) but they now get in front or fail to correct formation if I decide to take right or left for example.

Since AI is starting to getting some love maybe AI driving will get attention too,even small convoys of 3 cars are a mess when one of the cars decides to turn left or right stopping the others and so on.Seriously this is so bad and still the same when A2 was released.

Also another thing that bothers me it's the Hinds(all versions) guided missiles,they miss all the time you could have a shitload of them and you still miss that fat tank that stays still in an open field.I know about the story that in RL they weren't that precise but that story is about the old soviet ones.Also AI uses them rarely instead preferring the unguided ones,you know something is wrong when AI gets a hit ratio of 70-80% with the unguided ones and miss all the time with the guided ones.Not to mention the overexposing to enemy fire when using the unguided ones.

Either pump up their hit ratio or remove them completely,right now the Hind is not able to use it's full arsenal and it's more like an MI-17 with rocket pods.Also if you improve their accuracy make the AI to use the guided ones first against armored targets instead of unguided ones(just like Apache or Ka-52 pilots).

Edited January 20, 2011 by Krycek

[rübe 127]

So what you see here is a single group in line formation, lead by AI leader:

Now you tell me what's wrong with that line formation.

:D

Yes, I'm absolutely sure it's not column formation. :/

Edited January 20, 2011 by ruebe

[NeMeSiS 11]

We had that not too long ago. ;) The introduction of auto danger made us lose control although getting better combat savvy squaddies. I agree though. Some fail-safe order to give when you really have to get out of a hairy situation would be optimal.

I dont know what you mean with 'auto-danger mode', and i also didnt get it back in whatever beta it was. The AI goes into combat mode automatically since OFP. Its just that they dont follow orders as quickly anymore as they used to do.

(But did we really have that command not too long ago? I cant remember it at all)

[icebreakr 3129]

Now you tell me what's wrong with that line formation.

:D

If I quote Aliens:

Soldier: How many drops is this for you, AI Team Leader?

Leader: Thirty eight... simulated. Two combat... including this one.

:)))

[metalcraze 290]

AI cover system was indeed improved. After a gun fight I was surprised to find that the absolute majority of dead guys was lying under a bush or a tree.

[pandur 10]

So what you see here is a single group in line formation, lead by AI leader:

Now you tell me what's wrong with that line formation.

:D

Yes, I'm absolutely sure it's not column formation. :/

Old topic... :mad:

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/8973

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

I agree with the others,the auto danger mode should be overridable for player led squads.

Also noticed the weird formation thingie in the latest beta,they don't circle around anymore(thx for this) but they now get in front or fail to correct formation if I decide to take right or left for example.

Since AI is starting to getting some love maybe AI driving will get attention too,even small convoys of 3 cars are a mess when one of the cars decides to turn left or right stopping the others and so on.Seriously this is so bad and still the same when A2 was released.

I totally agree + one more thing makes me mad sometimes

Let's say I'm the driver of an armed car suddenly 50m in front of me one single-hero-enemy-unit pops up. First gunner sleeps, second gunner - after some time - at least informs me about the enemy. Enemy starts shooting and we all die in the car. AI spotting needs to be improved, especially in cars and helicopters.

btw if you give your AI a "watch this position" order, how can you undo that? I've been trying to figure that out for quite some time...

Edited January 20, 2011 by pandur