ARMA 2: OA beta build 77159

[rübe 127]

AI cover system was indeed improved. After a gun fight I was surprised to find that the absolute majority of dead guys was lying under a bush or a tree.

This part is really impressive now. Units find their cover pretty fast and really, in most of the cases they use the cover very well too.

Another thing that I've noted is that they now react a lot better to unexpected incoming fire. Say, I have a small group occupying a house, everyone is standing just around for the most part of the time. Then, after the first shot hits them, they react very well now with this latest improvements. I guess this too is due to the fact, that the units "findCover" has been improved so much. For example I had a great view on five enemy units as a sniper, took the first shoot and then... the other four more or less "disappeared" immediately - kneeling to cover, running to walls/corners...

Great stuff. :D

Old topic... :mad:

Ah yes, and I'm aware that this was a problem, once upon a time...

Somehow I just though this has been fixed ages ago :o...

Btw. I guess exactly this mal-orientation of formations is the culprit for AI comrads walking in front of you into your gunfire, no?

Edited January 20, 2011 by ruebe

[pandur 10]

Ah yes, and I'm aware that this was a problem, once upon a time...

Somehow I just though this has been fixed ages ago :o...

Doesn't happen very often, I'd say the patch fixed 75% of this issue. Happened much more frequently, but it still is a problem esp. if you play mostly coop with AI soldiers.

and "Btw. I guess exactly this mal-orientation of formations is the culprit for AI comrads walking in front of you into your gunfire, no?" is something different. Mal-orientation happens in all kinds of formations. What you said is "latest-beta-new". At least for me.

Edited January 20, 2011 by pandur

[stupidwhitekid75 11]

Everything about this beta is great other than a few problems I've found. I keep having issues with both automatic rifleman and machine gunners, they seem to find a target and will start firing and never stop. They have ridiculously bad aim and will keeping continuing to shoot even if targets are extremely far away. At first I kind of liked it because it was like they were doing there job, suppressing enemy targets, but even after ordering "Hold Fire" they refused to stop firing and would run out of ammunition. Afterwards, I had a hell of a time trying to get them to pick up a gun off any kind of dead body whether there was fighting or not. A similar problem to that arose when there was a heavy fight about 500m away. The group I had was ordered to hold until another group moved into place (all done via trigger, everything was synced up and listed the way it was supposed to be..checked and double checked and triple checked etc...), then it would switch into combat mode and move towards the town. However, once the order was given, the AI refused to move. They wouldn't bound up, they would just sit there and sometimes even try to engage the enemy. Even switching to the squad leader and ordering/moving towards the next waypoint several times did nothing. I replayed the mission ten or eleven times usually with similar results. Other than that, the beta is great.

[rübe 127]

Another small thing, which is quite annoying if you play under AI leadership: Given a target I can't really engage, I radio my AI leader "negative" (under the main radio menu on hiting the spacebar), expecting the red-target icon to go away after this (and internally unassign that target from me). But it just doesn't happen. Also such a negated target should be put into a temp. blacklist, so the AI leader won't assign it to me again, right away..

Another related thing is, that assigned targets which are clearly no threat to the group anymore (for example because they are long driven away/out of range) should be quicker unassigned, because such assigned targets might split up the group, slowing them down for no real reason. It's not so funny, if your only AT unit hunts a single supply-truck that is hundrets of meters away, driving away from us.. and then you face a "real" or immediate threat while your AT gunner is miles away :(

hehe

[arthur666 10]

Another small thing, which is quite annoying if you play under AI leadership: Given a target I can't really engage, I radio my AI leader "negative" (under the main radio menu on hiting the spacebar), expecting the red-target icon to go away after this (and internally unassign that target from me). But it just doesn't happen. Also such a negated target should be put into a temp. blacklist, so the AI leader won't assign it to me again, right away..

Another related thing is, that assigned targets which are clearly no threat to the group anymore (for example because they are long driven away/out of range) should be quicker unassigned, because such assigned targets might split up the group, slowing them down for no real reason. It's not so funny, if your only AT unit hunts a single supply-truck that is hundrets of meters away, driving away from us.. and then you face a "real" or immediate threat while your AT gunner is miles away :(

I have always noticed these issues in every build. I guess I play under AI leadership more than most players, but I usually am doing it just to see how one of my missions runs on its own.

I think that tweaking these would benefit the game alot.

[metalcraze 290]

OK after further testing it appears that with AI fixes BIS broke its reaction time in infantry-sees-vehicle cases

AI was completing a simple AI survival test where an AT squad was going around the corner and facing the BMP facing them 150m away 2-3 out of 4 times before by immediately preparing M136 and blasting BMP into heaven.

Now they just casually walk in front of the BMP or spend too much time thinking what to do (or trying to find cover) when they finally spot it.

I don't know if this warrants a dev-heaven ticket (I have a "mission" though I use to test this aspect of AI when testing AI mods)

Edited January 20, 2011 by metalcraze

[stupidwhitekid75 11]

Had another small issue. I had a mission set up on the desert map where an AT team would be dropped off at the base of the main hill/mountain and then we would move to the top. Near the oil pump station, there were two Shilkas about 100 meters apart as well as several infantry teams. I would set the formation to line to make sure both AT gunners were at my left and right, and then assign my left AT gunner to one Shilka, and my second AT gunner to the second Shilka. After they reported "Target Acquired" I would remove the "Hold Fire" order, and one of the AT gunners would fire, but the other would just run away almost. 9/10 times this happened, I tested it a few different ways and it came out the same. Never ran into this issue before as far as I can remember.

[arthur666 10]

Oh wow. This beta is really good. Fire-fights just got more interesting! Played an old mission of mine in Zargabad. CDF patrol is ambushed by large number of enemies. It was noticeably more intense than before. Enemies were certainly using cover better as they came down the street. More peeking from behind corners etc.

My group did not want to leave danger mode after way too long, and I did notice the aforementioned "machinegunner firing until empty" problem a few times. Fix that, and we'll have a winner.

Edited January 21, 2011 by arthur666

[CameronMcDonald 146]

btw if you give your ai a "watch this position" order, how can you undo that? I've been trying to figure that out for quite some time...

2-1 "_x, no target."

[carlostex 38]

AI definately looks better with this Beta, i also agree that AI should be the first priority but i really hope to see BIS fixing some rendering bugs like weird lighting popping and flickering, buildings/bushes/trees that appear and disappear if i zoom in/out.

[NoRailgunner 0]

AI in combat/under fire: they are now too close to each other - one can kill half a squad with just one (hand) grenade. Possible solution: AI should keep their interval to each other - lets say min: 2-5m, max: 20m. Additional formation command for all formations eg "loose formation" or "tight formation" would be useful.

Please include a proper feedback from AI to player:

if they spot enemy soldiers who are going to fire at the players team/group let his AI teammates shout/say/whisper something like: "We've been spotted! Enemy contacts at 9 o'clock, 200m!" or "Our cover is blown up (busted?)! Enemies to our right, 50m!" before they open fire.

In players team/group the AI should follow the given orders more strictly instead of overriding them each time they made a contact or if they under sporadic fire.

The order "Disengage" should work much better so the player can lead his AI team into a another/better position or place.

With other words - give the player more (direct) control over his AI's.

[syphonix 10]

I would like to see AI pilots be better at landing in tree-filled areas (they should pick clean landing spot, not land directly on a tree). They frequently crash, unless they are landing on miles-clean terrain. This hasn't been addressed for quite some time.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Syphonix

[mrcash2009 0]

With other words - give the player more (direct) control over his AI's.

Its come up enough times now especially threads about "force move" & "Haul ass" out of danger override. By that I mean enough that it should be worked on and all reasons justified. To know in danger its not up to my AI to decide when its safe, as much as I tell them to move and they instantly "run with me" that would be a great backup to have finally set in place.

Make it so BIS, make it so! I cant see why setting to safe cant be used direct out of danger, it maybe some what "unrealistic" .. but as we are ina scenario of controling PC bots, I think a fixed override is definitely in order.

Its either that BIS or in a update for engine like what comes with patches via DLC we get a new menu option "At all costs" ... just like Ghost recon, where its "you might be in danger but move fast at all costs" which has been mentioned before. This covers situations like getting into heli in battle, also with shoot & scoot styles of play so you dont fire then want to move only to know AI take ages not following you fast movement to new cover because they fell into danger mode and wont get out of it, all scenarios of wanting fast loading of Ai into vehicle to retreat/fast relocate under fire.

This way its you as leader that sent them to a suicide death based on bad planning (which still brings elements of planning and leadership into play even more as to when use it to run and when not too), not the sim or AI telling you "that generally wont be a good idea so we wont come out of danger until we say so".

After playing more this kind of forward stretched v formation in danger mode seems to be too much, and as said puts AI moving way to far ahead. I think finding cover in danger is good, but if they are already in a formation setting before hand they should stay like that but find cover around that formation type, IE if I set line (which I do when in danger) im expecting a line based cover formation (all be it skewed based on cover positions) ... well, anything other than knowing they will scoot too far forward in a set elongated V of their own choosing.

Edited January 21, 2011 by mrcash2009

[stun 5]

I'm not sure when it was introduced, but i've noticed that OA is not spreading the CPU load between cores as evenly as it used to. I seem to have one core at close 100% on heavy missions while the other three cores are well below 20%.

Anyone else noticed this?

[Alwarren 2767]

AI definately looks better with this Beta

Just now I played a game were this AI cost me my life. I ordered them into danger mode, and immediately they began running in front of me, even standing in front of me, resulting in me NOT being able to shoot and getting owned by an enemy grenadier. This AI behavior is not only annoying, it's downright fatal. Ever time they go into danger mode they keep running AHEAD, and tend to stack up one after the other, making fire arcs completely meaningless.

This is a serious gamebreaking bug, and it is easy to reproduce. Take the desert map, put down a US rifle squad. In game, put them in danger mode and run forward. Then stop and wait to see where they go. The only formation that seems to work, more or less, is the delta/diamond formation, anything else results in CF.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Just now I played a game were this AI cost me my life. I ordered them into danger mode, and immediately they began running in front of me, even standing in front of me, resulting in me NOT being able to shoot and getting owned by an enemy grenadier. This AI behavior is not only annoying, it's downright fatal. Ever time they go into danger mode they keep running AHEAD, and tend to stack up one after the other, making fire arcs completely meaningless.

This is a serious gamebreaking bug, and it is easy to reproduce. Take the desert map, put down a US rifle squad. In game, put them in danger mode and run forward. Then stop and wait to see where they go. The only formation that seems to work, more or less, is the delta/diamond formation, anything else results in CF.

I guess that asking the AI to know where you may or may not want to aim and to let them react accordingly may be... A bit much to ask. :p

[metalcraze 290]

Despite what you may believe AI doesn't have eyes in the back of their head and can't read your mind.

Ever time they go into danger mode they keep running AHEAD, and tend to stack up one after the other, making fire arcs completely meaningless.

They keep formation just fine in the open when there is no cover under fire. However if there is the cover ahead - nobody in their right mind will try to keep formation if they want to live. They can't know where you want to fire, neither will human players. Move yourself into a better position.

Edited January 21, 2011 by metalcraze

[Alwarren 2767]

They keep formation just fine in the open when there is no cover under fire.

No, they don't. See here for easy steps to reproduce. No addons used, just plain CO plus BAF plus PMC.

However if there is the cover ahead - nobody in their right mind will try to keep formation if they want to live. They can't know where you want to fire, neither will human players. Move yourself into a better position.

It's not about keeping formation all the time, by all means, break formation if you are under fire. However, the AI should not run ahead if there is no cover there at all, and especially not run ahead 100 meters if they just reported an enemy that is 50 meters ahead (not exaggerating here).

Also, they always cross over left to right. That wouldn't be so bad if they would stay somewhat behind, but this way they constantly block each other. It might work with a small squad, but in a large squad it is a problem.

[ast65 10]

No, they don't. See here for easy steps to reproduce. No addons used, just plain CO plus BAF plus PMC.

It's not about keeping formation all the time, by all means, break formation if you are under fire. However, the AI should not run ahead if there is no cover there at all, and especially not run ahead 100 meters if they just reported an enemy that is 50 meters ahead (not exaggerating here).

Also, they always cross over left to right. That wouldn't be so bad if they would stay somewhat behind, but this way they constantly block each other. It might work with a small squad, but in a large squad it is a problem.

I can thoroughly confirm this stupid AI- behaviour.

Atm it´s not possible to move with AI squad in formation if enemy is sighted.

It´s just a matter of pointing and parking (my squad).

Otherwise they´re running around infront of my nose like headless chickens and get picked off by enemy easily if they´re not shooting themselves or get shot by me (running in line of fire) :p

Squad AI is unacceptable atm imho; in RL they would be court- martialled and shot :D

Edited January 22, 2011 by @ST

[metalcraze 290]

No, they don't. See here for easy steps to reproduce. No addons used, just plain CO plus BAF plus PMC.

Hmmm indeed. Haven't noticed this during firefights but it seems AIs indeed run off too much to the front.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Just now I played a game were this AI cost me my life. I ordered them into danger mode, and immediately they began running in front of me, even standing in front of me, resulting in me NOT being able to shoot and getting owned by an enemy grenadier. This AI behavior is not only annoying, it's downright fatal. Ever time they go into danger mode they keep running AHEAD, and tend to stack up one after the other, making fire arcs completely meaningless.

Tried your repro, i confirm the issue.

[Alex72 1]

I dont know what you mean with 'auto-danger mode', and i also didnt get it back in whatever beta it was. The AI goes into combat mode automatically since OFP. Its just that they dont follow orders as quickly anymore as they used to do.

(But did we really have that command not too long ago? I cant remember it at all)

Thats exactlly what i meant. They always went into danger thats correct, but one of the patches some months back IIRC made it totally "automatic" in the sense there is no way of giving orders during that mode. They just play it out regardless of order. Pre that specific patch you could order your units to take different positions and even get the medic to heal squaddies during fights.

Would be nice to have that "authority" back. :)

[mcarma 19]

I have been away from this game for quite a while.

So what patches are needed to update the original OA release?

Is this 'ARMA 2: OA beta build 77159' update all inclusive? If not what patches do I need?

Thanks!

[pauliesss 2]

Install this first:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=112025

And then you can install this beta patch. :)

[mcarma 19]

Install this first:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=112025

And then you can install this beta patch. :)

Thanks!