ARMA 2 (OA) : DLC discussion thread

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'm with Tonci87. But it also depends. Would this new stuff be encrypted? We as a clan needs to be able to do any modification we see fit to "make it work for us". I.e. the British forces might have perfect models that we like, but they would be unusable if we can't create our own versions of it, i.e. changing the flag patch or creating needed subclasses that may be missing.

If not encrypted, how do BIS intend to prevent piracy of the DLCs? If I wanted to, I could change what is needed and distribute it freely among my clan? Surely they must have thought of that?

Official maps are always a plus. Even "minor maps" (in terms of changes) like United Sahrani or South Sahrani that came with QG. I loved these variations. Addon maps I try to stay away from, as they are always WIP, rarely complete, and frankly (no disrespect, I realize the insane amount of work put into it) rarely matches the quality of BIS islands (most likely due to lack of BIS' own tools).

Campaigns adds great value. Not only for the actual playing, but as a resource of code and sounds etc to borrow from. But they would have to be great, with varied gameplay each time (lots of randomness), and plenty of cutscenes and chatter of good quality. QG had decent campaign. EW was quite a bit too short.

In general, I'm quite reluctant about this whole paid DLC thing. I'd rather have full expansion packs similar to OA, that can be picked up at a store. Or at least ordered so I get a box. Yeah, I know I'm old fashioned :p

[Flash Thunder 10]

Im happy with content right now OA+Arma 2 is plenty enough not even counting ACE mod and all the other kick ass mods suites out there.

How can I help fund BIS in their pursuit of enhancing RV engine or even prototyping the next generation engine you know with 64bit and all that nice stuffs. :p :)

I guess ill be sending BIS a check soon, better not waste it on your binge drinking! ;)

[twisted 128]

How can I help fund BIS in their pursuit of enhancing RV engine or even prototyping the next generation engine you know with 64bit and all that nice stuffs. :p :)

)

yeah, that's the kinds stuff worth paying for. spot on.:)

Edited June 15, 2010 by twisted
bad spelling

[pauliesss 2]

I dont think there is a need to discuss about the protection of DLC, I am sure BIS will take care of that. :)

[royaltyinexile 175]

How can I help fund BIS in their pursuit of enhancing RV engine or even prototyping the next generation engine you know with 64bit and all that nice stuffs.

If you really want this, the best thing you could do would be to buy a 64bit operating system and new computer for EVERY user with Arma installed, and EVERY user that would think about buying arma..! :p

[jw custom 56]

Let's say, hypothetically, that BIS were planning to release a DLC containing the following:

• British forces including basic infantry types with appropriate weapons, transport helicopter, attack helicopter, MBT, light armored vehicle and a ground transport vehicle.
  
• Black Element PMCs with two or three new weapons, a transport heli and a ground transport vehicle.
  
• Karzeghistan, a new 150km² terrain.
  

No new game engine features, no campaign (except perhaps a couple of SP missions), just units and terrain.

What would you be willing to pay for it? And would you be willing to pay more if it contained a campaign?

I would have no problem paying for such a package, not sure how much i would pay. I couldn't care less about the campaign.

[lone.wolf 80]

Let's say, hypothetically, that BIS were planning to release a DLC containing the following:

• British forces including basic infantry types with appropriate weapons, transport helicopter, attack helicopter, MBT, light armored vehicle and a ground transport vehicle.
  
• Black Element PMCs with two or three new weapons, a transport heli and a ground transport vehicle.
  
• Karzeghistan, a new 150km² terrain.
  

No new game engine features, no campaign (except perhaps a couple of SP missions), just units and terrain.

What would you be willing to pay for it? And would you be willing to pay more if it contained a campaign?

This is just what i am hoping for in a DLC, it has what i am wanting in a paid DLC and the price don't know.. Campaign aint important to me, i like to do my own scenarios...

[TimRiceSE 10]

Id happily pay £10 for that.

[NoRailgunner 0]

I would pay for additional DLC with high quality content but not for retextures or similar stuff thats already in A2/OA. Not going to buy map packs or somekind of booster packs.

There must be something new and maybe more advanced that would make me decide to buy a DLC and of course use it for a longer time.

I'm just curious how many official/custom made missions will be created for paid DLCs - imho there were only few for QG.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Speaking of DLC for ArmA II I decided to myself not to buy:

- DLC that is too expensive in general

- sp or mp missions (standalone)

- single vehicles, units or weapons

- content that is already delivered by the community

I'd be interested basicly in packages. Size / content / price could be like Queens Gambit once ... that was fair imho. Without campaign/sp/mp missions it'll be ok for 10 bucks.

I hope there'll be content themed packages for example modern iraqi army + insurgents, or maybe even older army vehicles of the 60s / 70s ... civilian vehicle packages, animal packages ...

But it shouldn't end like EA + Sims ... almost every month 30 bucks for some stuff is bs.

However I don't know how BIS will prevent "dealing" DLC content among friends. Will the DLC be related to certain keys? Or will it be treated like every other addon?

[R3MF 0]

give it to me on a disk, and i'll buy it.

i like the fact my game is not account dependent, i wouldn't want to change that just to get some DLC.

[Jelliz 10]

However I don't know how BIS will prevent "dealing" DLC content among friends. Will the DLC be related to certain keys? Or will it be treated like every other addon?

I bet DLC wont be released until they have blacklisted most of the keys that are used with the illegal torrent versions and they can safely remove DRM. Kind of like how it was with patch 1.05 for Arma 2. I think at around 6 months after release they will start with paid DLC.

[glowbal 13]

something I hope is that atleast for paid DLC, if you have to re-install the game, say you have a new PC, you won't lose all the DLC and have to re-buy it.

though I would probally still buy it, depending on the content. A new faction, for example, as long the price is fair. No doubt BI earns the money though.

[W0lle 1050]

something I hope is that atleast for paid DLC, if you have to re-install the game, say you have a new PC, you won't lose all the DLC and have to re-buy it.

That most probably won't be the case. If you have that with DLC for other games then I suggest it's about time to reconsider your relationship with that developer. ;)

I'm also pretty sure that paid DLC will not be just "retextured units".

With almost 10 years of always free long-time support and free addons, don't you think there should be more faith in BIS? They surely don't turn into another <insert random developer/publisher here>.

Fact is that the guys at BIS don't push a button and all of the sudden a shiny new Tank, Plane or Terrain pops up. And the guys and gals creating that content don't work for free so it's only logical to charge those who wants to use the content.

Sure it is not easy, especially for the long time fans, to accept that what was for free for almost a decade won't be for free anymore. However if we want to enjoy this series for another decade we also need to make sure BIS gets what it needs for doing so. And that's money in the first place, it's a fact.

give it to me on a disk, and i'll buy it.

You know what DLC stands for, yes? ;)

[Schancky 10]

Let's say, hypothetically, that BIS were planning to release a DLC containing the following:

• British forces including basic infantry types with appropriate weapons, transport helicopter, attack helicopter, MBT, light armored vehicle and a ground transport vehicle.
  
• Black Element PMCs with two or three new weapons, a transport heli and a ground transport vehicle.
  
• Karzeghistan, a new 150km² terrain.
  

No new game engine features, no campaign (except perhaps a couple of SP missions), just units and terrain.

What would you be willing to pay for it? And would you be willing to pay more if it contained a campaign?

I would pay £12 for the British army/navy/airforce stuff (aslong as their was enough units and of a high standard)

Black element - Probably 5-6 pounds.

Karzeghistan - up to £10 due to its size

Even know this is DLC, I would like to see some stuff released on discs, like with MS Flight sim paid addons. That's just my opinion though.

@MadDogX : Dont forget Attack and Transport Planes too ;) Also, support vehicals for the faction (In this case the british) like fuel, ammo, ambulance and repair vehicals.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Schancky

[cannonouscrash 12]

I have no problem purchasing DLC as long (like most) its of good quality.

A minor problem i see, If BIS where to create a DLC that was a new faction, For example, The British units, I wouldnt be to happy if it was a 'company' sized faction, Id want more for the faction, like all supporting elements, And with that id also want missions to go with it. The problem is, that most of the units are just a different colour(cammo etc etc) so the only thing new that you are getting is perhaps the armed truck (wimik?) and the weapons, I havent seen anything else so far.

As for the black element, Although its a faction, Its going to have a lot less supporting elements compared to an actual military. A decent campaign with this would need to be a must.

[Schancky 10]

I have no problem purchasing DLC as long (like most) its of good quality.

A minor problem i see, If BIS where to create a DLC that was a new faction, For example, The British units, I wouldnt be to happy if it was a 'company' sized faction, Id want more for the faction, like all supporting elements, And with that id also want missions to go with it. The problem is, that most of the units are just a different colour(cammo etc etc) so the only thing new that you are getting is perhaps the armed truck (wimik?) and the weapons, I havent seen anything else so far.

As for the black element, Although its a faction, Its going to have a lot less supporting elements compared to an actual military. A decent campaign with this would need to be a must.

Exactly. My wishlist for a british DLC from BIS would be:

(All Vehicals in Woodland and Desert)

- Troops AND Weapons (Woodland/Desert/MTP)

- Landrovers (WMIK, Ambulance, General Service)

- Challenger II

- scimitar

- Warrior

- Bulldog (FV430)

- Mastiff

- Viking

- Jackal

- Vector

- AS90

- MAN Trucks (6t/9t/12t, Repair/Rearm/Refule)

- Lynx (Army/RN)

- Merlin (RN/RAF)

- Puma

- Apache

- Chinook

- Gazelle

- Tornado

- Harrier (RN/RAF)

- Eurofighter

- C-130

-Various RN Ships (Ocean, Illustrious, Destroyers etc)

I know its alot, but it is just a wish list :p

If all that was to be included, I would pay up to £15 for it, aslong as the quality was top notch ;)

[santafee 10]

I would pay for some real Quality Missions.

A main problem is the very few SP content in this game. Its great fun to create your own missions, but sometimes you just want to enjoy playing the game...

And for real, there are only very very few quality missions and campaigns out there. The scenarios in Arma 2 were a joke. Very short and mostly no challenge.

[Maio 293]

I'm also pretty sure that paid DLC will not be just "retextured units".

With almost 10 years of always free long-time support and free addons, don't you think there should be more faith in BIS? They surely don't turn into another <insert random developer/publisher here>.

BIS has my full support . If paying 10-15 euros every 6 months/year gives BIS the possibility to continue improving everything ArmA related ,then hell yeah .

Fact is that the guys at BIS don't push a button and all of the sudden a shiny new Tank, Plane or Terrain pops up. And the guys and gals creating that content don't work for free so it's only logical to charge those who wants to use the content.

Girls you say :o . Are they single :D ?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

give it to me on a disk, and i'll buy it.

You realize that totally defeats the purpose right? The revenue from sales would probably just cover the cost of printing & distributing them (and it's a disc, not a disk, disk refers to harddrive disks not a CD/DVD).

[W0lle 1050]

I would pay for some real Quality Missions.

A main problem is the very few SP content in this game. Its great fun to create your own missions, but sometimes you just want to enjoy playing the game...

And for real, there are only very very few quality missions and campaigns out there. The scenarios in Arma 2 were a joke. Very short and mostly no challenge.

If the scenarios were a joke, why then you don't make some of your own and show them how it is done?

Armaholic has currently 246 SP missions waiting for you to download. There are also 376 Coop missions from which you might be able to play the majority as SP too. Few SP content? For sure not.

[STALKERGB 6]

To be honest, unit content is all well and good, and BIS does make damn nice stuff but I'd prefer to see extra features in any paid for DLC. Maybe mixing free units with paid features... I dunno...

Edited June 15, 2010 by STALKERGB

[Big Dawg KS 6]

If the scenarios were a joke, why then you don't make some of your own and show them how it is done?

Armaholic has currently 246 SP missions waiting for you to download. There are also 376 Coop missions from which you might be able to play the majority as SP too. Few SP content? For sure not.

Actually W0lle, I do have to say that it is difficult to make quality missions, and certainly if you're just one guy working by yourself. And unfortunately a lot of the missions I see today are really rushed together and not very well polished.

But then again, what are you to expect unless you have a development team such as BIS with lots of experienced designers and all the resources to make it all nice and polished.

Still though, I don't think the solution lies with BIS making missions all day and releasing them as DLC.

[Wolfrug 0]

Hm.

In principle I have nothing against DLC - they add content and a continuos revenue to the developers, which is all well and good. Problem is, everyone is not going to buy everything. In fact, few are going to buy anything in the long run. In short: the DLC will not only be a solely Single Player experience, they will be the sort of thing you can only enjoy in your own company. If I make a mission today, I have to seriously consider whether or not I want to use an addon or not, since potential players will likewise seriously consider if they want to go through the hassle of downloading and managing all those (potentially buggy) addons for one single mission. BUT, at least the addon is free and freely available, so if they think it's worth it the mission can be played.

Now, if I want to use OA in a mission, I will obviously be limiting myself to those who have OA. Maybe I could do the same with free addon units/islands? That I have to decide, and thus I determine my potential audience. The addons are free, OA is not - but OA might be higher quality, and ultimately less hassle to use (since it's official, and a big proper expansion). My hope is OA will be like OFP's Resistance, in which case the WHOLE community will eventually adapt it, and making 'vanilla' missions is no longer the norm nor a necessary consideration.

However, it will be a consideration in the beginning, so there are still two things to consider: expansion or no expansion and addons or no addons. Now add DLC, and we're in a world of trouble. Since the DLC will be small and manageable (e.g. British troops), they are basically to be used in the same manner as addons or mod packs (e.g. HWM). However, now the question of audience becomes more pointed: whereas I can assume that if I make a mission which is exciting and popular enough to convince people to download any potential addons I've used and try it, this will not work with DLC. There is a giant gulf separating "oh heck, I guess I'll download that 500mb addon pack 'cause this mission sure sounds fun!" and "oh heck, I'll shell out 10 bucks and buy that DLC 'cause this mission sounds like fun". In fact, that gulf is insurmountable for many who do not have credit cards or disposable income.

This is basically what happened to Queens Gambit, the poor 'expansion' to ArmA: I'm sure lots of missions were made using it, but ultimately it was a failure simply because there was no point using it since no-one would play what you'd make. For a while, this was what happened in OFP in the post-Resistance times: go check out some of the addons that were made those days with two versions, a "1.46" OFP version and a Resistance version. However, the upgrade was so big (much like I believe and hope OA will be for Arma 2) that soon enough there was no point in developing a separate version for vanilla OFP.

I can never see this happening for DLC.

That said, I'm not saying this is about 'splitting the community' or any such nonsense: if a squad for instance wants to purchase units or an island which they think would fit them perfectly, they go right ahead. If you and your mates like some particular DLC and you want to play with it, no problem. Even if you yourself want to buy something for its own sake, maybe even just for any possible missions/campaigns that come with it, wonderful! But when it comes to the meat of Arma 2, the user-made missions and campaigns, DLC is going to be nothing but a underutilized and ultimately pointless gimmick that will only truly be used within certain cliques. I am not going to waste my time on something that can only be enjoyed by a very select few, and since the only reward for mission-making is that other people get to enjoy the fruits of your labour (see the motivational thing from RSAnimate), I really don't personally see the point of DLC. Rather, I would want more (quality) addons to be used, in the sense "make missions for" - this would be a proper way of returning all the hard work the addon makers poured into their work.

I'm sure someone else has posted a similar giant rant in this giant thread, but I thought I'd do it too since I couldn't be bothered to read every single post. Caveat: all of the above is IMHO, and from the POV of a (SP) mission maker. MP play, clan play, individual mucking about in the editor etc. has nothing to do with it. Thank you for reading.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[santafee 10]

Yea, what he said..

1. Maybe 10 missions are really good, nice to play from all Usercontent, cause much is rushed together. Its annoying searching 1 good out of 300 SP missions .Believe me i tried many.

2. Im sure im not that bad at making missions for SP, but like i said, its very time demanding, not everybody got the time. Also its not that much fun if you know every detail of your own mission, storyline, enemys and stuff.

The BIS scenarios, like Village Clean, comon....You got armored vehicles, way to much infantry and artillery support against some enemys and 1 BMP.

You dont need longer then 15 minutes for this mission if you have some arma experience.

If the scenarios were a joke, why then you don't make some of your own and show them how it is done?

Armaholic has currently 246 SP missions waiting for you to download. There are also 376 Coop missions from which you might be able to play the majority as SP too. Few SP content? For sure not.