Dragon Rising has been released

[wiggum2 31]

I must be tired. I thought you were complaining about people complaining about how people like DR then linked two quotes of someone saying that it looks good.... Think I needs some sleeps

Yeah i think you must be tired because you dont realize that he saying that ironical. ;)

Look here:

I agree, it's a shitty console port of a shitty arcade console shooter build on a driving engine and nothing can change that!

They can patch all they want but this turd will always stink.

@Aeneas2020

Thats right but for me it looked a bit out of control...these hole ArmA vs. DR thing. I dont wont to defend CM (i dont like them at all) but if you have 10 "ArmA2 is better" topics everyday you can get a bit overhasty.

[Deadfast 43]

I just want to know, would BIS get Problems if there would be written, "From the real Developer of Operation Flashpoint Cold War Crisis" on the Game? I mena its fully true so im not sure if they could prosecute you for that

My Czech box says:

COMPLEX MILITARY SIMULATOR

from the creators of Operation Flashpoint* and ArmA: Armed Assault

*Operation Flashpoint is a registered trademark of Codemasters Software Company Ltd.

[Aeneas2020 10]

Templar...no CM didn't come up with the name however they got the rights to it when they trademarked it as theirs on publishing the game. I never said you were welcome but I did say I welcome you. It shows that we don't mind people questioning conventially held community wisdom here.

[jw custom 56]

Yeah i think you must be tired because you dont realize that he saying that ironical. ;)

Look here:

@Aeneas2020

Thats right but for me it looked a bit out of control...these hole ArmA vs. DR thing. I dont wont to defend CM (i dont like them at all) but if you have 10 "ArmA2 is better" topics everyday you can get a bit overhasty.

Really :eek:

[Bulldogs 10]

Personally I think that every developer should look at other similar games and use that information to find things to advance their own games.

That said, I don't think companies should make the mistakes of games like Ghost Recon and Rainbow 6 in which it seems like the developers/publishers have looked at other action based titles and said "Hey look, these other games are making more money, so let's dump the realism and make some money"

Then again, I actually like GRAW and Vegas, I just don't consider them Ghost Recon or Rainbow 6 titles (respectively)

---------- Post added at 12:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 AM ----------

BTW, that's not ironic, just sarcastic, and a little of something else . . . . . . .

[Madus_Maximus 0]

It's quite common for publishers to gain the name rights to games, at least it used to be. The trick is to trademark them before you sign with the publisher so you hold all control over the way the name is used.

[dmarkwick 261]

As far as I can understand recent BIS dev comments, the name Operation Flashpoint was not an original BIS construct either, but one bought from another company. So, BIS never did own or originate the name.

However, it seems the good name that Operation Flashpoint had is tarnished somewhat, but I reckon the ArmA brand is now more powerful in any case. Move on guys :)

[4 IN 1 0]

As far as I can understand recent BIS dev comments, the name Operation Flashpoint was not an original BIS construct either, but one bought from another company. So, BIS never did own or originate the name.

However, it seems the good name that Operation Flashpoint had is tarnished somewhat, but I reckon the ArmA brand is now more powerful in any case. Move on guys :)

QTF, its sad to see operation flashpoint name get trashed by CM, but hey! human have to look forward!;)

[nettrucker 143]

Hi there

I was reading for month both forums BIS and CM's about OFPDR and it's sad to see that there was some exchanges of heavy insults, flaming, trolling . . . call it whatever you like.It was on both sides It was a little bit kind of a war between both communities. This has saddened me very much. This is most probably due to our passion we have for games, especially wargames in general, but it's no excuse for a bad education and insulting other fellow community members, at least I see it that way. I'm a proud member of the BIS community and never had any problems discussing things in an educated and respectful civil manner. I dislike people who are insulting other people, arrogant behaviour is something I detest completely. I have never been part of the CM community and I decided I wouldn't sign up on their forums. The more I read over here, the more I felt uncomfortable to do it.

But I just felt the urge to post over here in the hope that you can accept my opinion and that both communities try to get along better in the future.

I hoped that DR would be good . . . now after release it turns out it isn't. My buddy called me a while ago all excited. Hey I got me OFPDR, so I gave him some heads up, he played the game for an hour, uninstalled it and brought it back exchanging it with ArmA II. Now a game is always a very personal "taste" thing the same as with music or movies or whatever. The people who think that DR must be great have never been hooked by ArmA II they most probably never even played the original OFP therefore they most probably don't know better and don't get the difference. I believe who loved the first Original Flashpoint can't accept OFPDR This is a different game and none of all this would have happened if this game had a different title. But Codemaster naturally took advantage of the name since they own it, nothing to say about that. What saddens me is that they really don't care about their community. And this is the reason why I think I do belong here. I'm an Armaholic playing for 8 years straight and I love it. I tried a lot of other FPS but nothing stands the comparison to the BIS titles for me, but that is only my personal opinion. If people find OFPDR great I can acccept that . . . have no problem whatsoever with that. If people think that ArmA is bad they simply didn't catch the spirit of this game, the challenge and the absolute freedom to play missions with tactics. I was never able to use tactics in a corridor shooter. I think games are a matter of taste and personal preference.

I thank BIS for taking care of their community for continiously improving their games and patching it up as best as possible. I play since 2001, being a member on the forum since 2004, following always the news and all I can say is that BIS has never let me down. The only thing which makes me whince is that they got such a bad reputation for buggy releases since Armed Assault. I don't know what reason stays behind such a poor quality control . . . I can immagine some but it's just useless speculation.from my side. It sure did a lot of harm to them and drove away a lot of potential customers. Now the fact that DR was such a "fail" for PC gamers did some good to BIS because. The "community war" is hopefully over now and I see some people from the CM forums joining the community and replenishing the ranks which I personally truly welcome.

It was also very sad to see so many frustrated community members with highend rigs having so many troubles to run ArmA properly and a lot of angry people too and the problems are not completely resolved yet, but BIS is constantly working on it.. I guess this has pushed a lot of people away from ArmA in my opinion and most probably I would be angry too if I couldn't run my favourite game not withstanding having an Ueber rig at disposal and I understand all the rants the people have because the game won't run well. I'm running only an Dual core and had no problems so far. Not a great framerate but I don't have experienced any major issues from preventing me to play the game. First release had game breaking problems in the campaign which have been fixed..

The fact is PC gaming is totally different from console playing . . . all consoles have more or less the same hardware set up and therefore it's much easier to get a game run well on a console. Now think about all the different hardware setups PC gamers have. The are millions of different hardware setups. How the hell can anybody develope a game that runs well on every PC at release? You ever thought about that? Given the magnitude and the ambition of their titles for me it's a mission impossible from start. When I purchase a title I know already that it most probably will have flaws and needs to be patched up, but this is a price I'm willing to pay in exchange I know that BiS will take care of all issues possibile. They did . . . they do it currently and they will always do it.. This has something to do with ethics which in the videogame business is really hard to find under the big players. BIS must improve quality control though otherwise it's going to damage their business and name. Once the words spread that you release buggy games it's difficult to get away from that reputation.

CM is definitely an example of how not to run a business in my opinion. They are very good at shoeshine and very skillful in selling a game by taking advantage of the name of the original one. They promised and advertised things and didn't deliver. They let their fanbase down. Never make a promise you can't mantain. Lies have short legs and you won't get very far especially in such competitive business as video games. A quick buck due to false promises or call it advertising will take the toll on CM and their future profits. It's their own fault and they deserve it. but this is also only my opinion. CM forgot the first business rule. The Customer is King. Without satisfied customers future profits are going to diminish. The worst is that they tricked so many people by using the Operation Flashpoint brand and that nobody in their company really cares about their community. Dragon rising was a slap in the face for every OFP veteran and just only the matter of missing DS and the confirmation that there will never be any dedicated servers just shows me how much they care about the PC gaming community.

That are my 2 cents.

I only wish that there will be a little bit more of tolerance towards new people who join the forums. No matter what opinion they might have I can tolerate it without having to accept it and discuss things in an educated manner without bashing them.

Kind regards

nettrucker

[templargfx 10]

The people who think that DR must be great have never been hooked by ArmA II they most probably never even played the original OFP therefore they most probably don't know better and don't get the difference.

Its this mindset that annoys me more than the rampant flaming, and other nonsense.

The idea that people that like DR only like it because they "dont know better". Like its not possible to just like it for what it is, regardless of whats out there, that they only like it because they havent played a BIS game.

The thing that saddens me the most is that people (a great amount of which are ARMA fans) bag out the game, call it crap and what not, simply because its called flashpoint, and isnt like the original. or it doesnt have DS. And forget to look at the game thats there. This saddens me because I think of those poor programmers and artists and developers that slaved for hours and hours over this game get to see there "baby" have shit plastered all over it, due to the actions of the publishing branch of CM.

[Zipper5 74]

The thing that saddens me the most is that people (a great amount of which are ARMA fans) bag out the game, call it crap and what not, simply because its called flashpoint, and isnt like the original. or it doesnt have DS. And forget to look at the game thats there.

I call it crap for many reason, with the most important one, in my eyes, being that it is titled Operation Flashpoint and is not Operation Flashpoint. The game itself is just bad. The mechanics are crappy, worse than ArmA II. You can't move at all when accessing the radial command menu, you have to cycle between all fire modes to get back to what you want (and that takes a really long time compared to ArmA II), you have to reload your M203 every time you select it before you can continue switching, other than the M203 reloading you get no visual indication of changing the firing mode, the AI is dumb as a rock (even with an Echelon), they've been modified so that it's very hard for them to hit you (creating "Hollywood tension" rather than realism), a shot to the head rarely kills the player, bodies disappear, cars fly up when they hit small rocks (much worse than it is in ArmA II, or even the original OFP for that matter), and the list just goes on and on.

Not only is it a disgrace to the OFP name, it's a bad game. Period.

[templargfx 10]

I call it crap for many reason, with the most important one, in my eyes, being that it is titled Operation Flashpoint and is not Operation Flashpoint. The game itself is just bad. The mechanics are crappy, worse than ArmA II. You can't move at all when accessing the radial command menu, you have to cycle between all fire modes to get back to what you want (and that takes a really long time compared to ArmA II), you have to reload your M203 every time you select it before you can continue switching, other than the M203 reloading you get no visual indication of changing the firing mode, the AI is dumb as a rock (even with an Echelon), they've been modified so that it's very hard for them to hit you (creating "Hollywood tension" rather than realism), a shot to the head rarely kills the player, bodies disappear, cars fly up when they hit small rocks (much worse than it is in ArmA II, or even the original OFP for that matter), and the list just goes on and on.

Not only is it a disgrace to the OFP name, it's a bad game. Period.

for a person that really like such a complicated control schemed game like ARMA2 I find it hilarious that you dont know theres an ammo type button. Press and hold ' to access the ammo type menu and choose the bullet/grenade type with the scroll wheel.

and it should be :

it's a bad game. In my opinion.

just cos you think its bad, doesnt mean it is

[Alex72 1]

But DR is bad if you compare it to ARMA. It feels like a horribly wrong gone copy of the last named. Its shit. Pure garbage. Made by some cocky ass big shots that have earned their money making baby games and other crap.

Sorry but your not convincing anyone that DR is good. Its shit. End of story.

[Bulldogs 10]

I think they can take it....

Personally I think people like DR because it's the type of game they like. Most Arma/Flashpoint vets don't like it because it's not like Arma/Flashpoint.

Personally I don't mind DR, but I wouldn't go much further than that. The game itself to me feels odd. Maybe if they fixed the FOV, the animations, the general movement, then maybe I'd enjoy the game more, but right now to me it just doesn't feel right.

But for the people who like it, well, good for them. I know a lot of people personally who enjoyed DR then when I showed them Arma they had an accident in pants, but that's not everyone's reactions. I've got one friend who hates Arma and loves DR because DR is a challenge for him whereas Arma is impossible for him. He likes being able to rush head first into a mission without thinking.

That kinda made me a little sad 'cause this same guy was the one who convinced me to buy Flashpoint when it was first released and must have clocked thousands of hours in coop missions together, but people change, and this guy used to live for RPG's, but can't even play an RTS anymore 'cause the battles take too long.

Anyways, Arma isn't everyone's cup of tea, and neither is DR. People can play what they like, it's their choice, and I have no problem with it. I still get annoyed everytime I see someone say "I'm a veteran of the original and this sequel lives up to every expectation", it just annoys me that CM's ploy worked, 'cause there's always other comments of "I loved the original, so why didn't this turn out as good?"

But regardless if anyone knows the history or not, and name aside, Operation Flashpoint is an old game that, while still played, has now to the most part been put to rest, and a lot of these people playing DR would have no clue what Cold War Crisis is, so let the name die, let the people enjoy what they enjoy, and let's just hope for their sake that CM doesn't take the usual route of screwing their customers over and cutting support altogether.

[NoRailgunner 0]

DR is made accessible for mainstream/casual and console players. The decision to use the name "Operation Flashpoint" and release such an mediocre shooter is not entirely clear - beside making profit.

What if CM or any other company would have made a real good competitor to Arma2?

[Bulldogs 10]

DR is made accessible for mainstream/casual and console players. The decision to use the name "Operation Flashpoint" and release such an mediocre shooter is not entirely clear - beside making profit.

What if CM or any other company would have made a real good competitor to Arma2?

Then I would be happy as I would have an alternative to play.

[nettrucker 143]

DR is made accessible for mainstream/casual and console players. The decision to use the name "Operation Flashpoint" and release such an mediocre shooter is not entirely clear - beside making profit.

What if CM or any other company would have made a real good competitor to Arma2?

I think that everybody would be happy to have an alternative choice to ArmA I guess. But for the time being there is none IMHO.

regards

nettrucker

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

This saddens me because I think of those poor programmers and artists and developers that slaved for hours and hours over this game get to see there "baby" have shit plastered all over it, due to the actions of the publishing branch of CM.

Did somebody force these people to work for CM? I highly doubt it.

Here's the problem: and spelling it out once again.......To parallel:

GM produces the Corvette, not Chevy. Chevy buys the rights to the Corvette, and hence the Corvette name. Years pass, Chevy then says "We are bringing out the Corvette 2". They then put a shell of a car that looks pretty up on the stage and they say how it's going to be just like the original but better." The die hard corvette people get all excited. They pre-order the car, but what gets delivered to them is a 6 Cylinder, underpowered, half the gauges don't work, and won't go over 60Mph."

That's what CM did. But the CM community says "well you don't need to go over 60mph, you don't need those extra controls and man does it look pretty."

My point being, once you take a well respected name in a car, a movie, a video game, anything, you have instantly set yourself up for high expectations. CM leveraged those expectations building up the title to be on par with Operation Flashpoint. It failed, contrary to the scripting spawning and despawning tricks, there is no large scale war, there is no modding, there's some little map making going on with the PC but the editor isn't that approachable to the novice. Basically everything that made the original great was ignored by CM at the same time they promoted it as having those abilities.

Also leading up to it was the OFPDR peoples for months slamming Arma2 for various reasons, and how DR was going to be over the top better than Arma2, have all the features of A2, killer graphics, and a control system that was more joystick friendly.

What came out..... well.....

What is amusing is that you alone seem to be the champion for this game.

You're mission is trumped by hundreds of mission makers using Arma2 to distribute FREE content, you start making rumblings of trying to sell something that the BIS community finds appalling. The community of A2/BIS is creating mods and missions for the betterment of the community and the title. Your attempts on the other hand, trying capitalize on a mission, goes totally against what we believe here.

Then to come over here, and try and vindicate yourself and you don't understand the angst. I saw you backpeddle over on those forums, when asking what would you pay, then put it off, to show CM how much they can make if they charged people for more DLC, again, you still don't get it. They should release your map for free. Period to the console gamers. You're feeding CM product to sell once again, which is AGAINST the beliefs of the BIS/A2 community. You're promoting the sale of content that we take for granted as being free. And you wonder why you get blasted here.....

Unbelievable.

[nettrucker 143]

Its this mindset that annoys me more than the rampant flaming, and other nonsense.

The idea that people that like DR only like it because they "dont know better". Like its not possible to just like it for what it is, regardless of whats out there, that they only like it because they havent played a BIS game.

The thing that saddens me the most is that people (a great amount of which are ARMA fans) bag out the game, call it crap and what not, simply because its called flashpoint, and isnt like the original. or it doesnt have DS. And forget to look at the game thats there. This saddens me because I think of those poor programmers and artists and developers that slaved for hours and hours over this game get to see there "baby" have shit plastered all over it, due to the actions of the publishing branch of CM.

dear templargfx

please read carefully what I wrote. I didn't say they don't know better I said they most probably don't know better. There is a subtle difference.

In any case I'm glad for you that you like that game for what it is at least you haven't been disapointed.

Kind regards

nettrucker

[Zipper5 74]

Yes, I knew about the ammo type menu. But, like the stupid radial command menu, you can't do anything when you're in it. It's ironically much quicker just to switch it yourself than using the menu.

It is a bad game. You cannot say that it isn't a bad game. You can say that you like said bad game, but so many aspects of it are incredibly flawed. You can have fun with said bad game, but you'll be one of very few, as you have undoubtedly found out. You cannot deny that there are some very bad issues with the game. That's just being blind.

[bascule42 10]

My first comment on DR was this: "Ja Ja Binks: That's my review of DR". Aside from spelling Ja Ja wrong, this summed it up for me as it is exactly like what The Phantom Menace did for the Star Wars name. And, I think I can speak for most on these forums here, the depth of feeling towards BI's Operation Flashpoint games is akin to how many of us 30 somethings felt about Star Wars back in the late 70's and the subsequent bollox that was TPM. CM did exactly the same thing with the OFP franchise. Turned it into "A jumped up firework display of a toy", (Tim Bisley - SPACED).

The fact that you templar, cannot understand this depth of feeling leads me to believe that you were slightly exaggerating how much you actually played CWC & ArmA. Because quite frankly, this is something that goes without saying to those of us that have.

Many of us have had a go, said: "OK, forget the name, lets try the game", and have found it lacking in so many ways - least of all because it's "not CWC". It is simply a bad game. Mostly because of the limitations imposed on it as a direct console port - limited graphics and AI that was probably designed to do nothing more that navigate a fixed circuit in CM's racing games. The controls are console controls. "Hold ` then select with the mousewheel" - "Hold A and select with the D-Pad". I admit, it does look pretty - from a distance and runs very well. Overall though I had constant feeling of: "This is it? I'm sure it will pick up". It never does though. It's a generic shooter with an action menu.

If I agreed with Zipper5 and said: "Its a bad game: period". This may well be an opinion, but it is one that is shared by the majoriuty of people here. And given the amount of people playing it, (finding a wide choice of MP games & xFire stats being, if not proof positive, then a damn good indication), the it's one that is shared by a lot of players who have tried it.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

My first comment on DR was this: "Ja Ja Binks: That's my review of DR". Aside from spelling Ja Ja wrong, this summed it up for me as it is exactly like what The Phantom Menace did for the Star Wars name. And, I think I can speak for most on these forums here, the depth of feeling towards BI's Operation Flashpoint games is akin to how many of us 30 somethings felt about Star Wars back in the late 70's and the subsequent bollox that was TPM. CM did exactly the same thing with the OFP franchise. Turned it into "A jumped up firework display of a toy", (Tim Bisley - SPACED)

I was trying to think of a Star Wars analogy but hadn't had my coffee. Glad you did.

Here's one other.

Last year wife and I went to Las Vegas and stayed at the Luxor where Chris Angel was appearing in his Vegas show. Chris Angel everywhere. His cars, bikes, props for his TV show. Being a casual fan of "Mind Freak" we bought tickets. $200 bucks for 2 seats. I'm thinking "awesome".

We go to the show, and the production was pretty good, but Chris Angel? SUCKED! I mean SUCKED SUCKED SUCKED. Did we get to see "Mind Freak" type magic? No.... we got to see:

A rabbit pulled out of a hat.

Four doves being pulled out of nowhere.

He cut himself in half, which you could obviously see how.

Him dropping down through trap doors to suddenly appear from someplace else (wow).

People were literally falling asleep in the audience.

Now, who in the audience didn't feel ripped off? The people that wore the Chris Angel Goth Garb. They were just happy to see Chris Angel on stage.

After the show, people were demanding their money back, guys in the bathroom were chanting "BullSh*t....BullSh*t...."

After getting home, and reading the reviews of the same show we saw, the goth kids just couldn't understand why we were attacking Chris Angel so much.... "he's an artist.... he worked hard on that show.....blah blah".

The same feeling came from playing DR for the first 15 min. It felt like I was sitting in that Chris Angel show, (but not out $200 bucks.)

[anguis 4]

I think, templargfx, that the guff you get over here stems primarily from the fact that, in the disingenuously set-up context of asking for help, you insulted the intelligence of those in this community by lying about playing OFP:CWC and Arma1 "to death", illustrated by your Disembark f--- up video. The icing on the cake was your cunt attitude. Everything else you've done has been seen through your lack-of-credibility filter. This lack of credibility is shared with CM and confirms the misgivings towards that company present in this community.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Anguis

[Aeneas2020 10]

Luhgnut;1536730']

GM produces the Corvette' date=' not Chevy. Chevy buys the rights to the Corvette, and hence the Corvette name. Years pass, Chevy then says "We are bringing out the Corvette 2". They then put a shell of a car that looks pretty up on the stage and they say how it's going to be just like the original but better." The die hard corvette people get all excited. They pre-order the car, but what gets delivered to them is a 6 Cylinder, underpowered, half the gauges don't work, and won't go over 60Mph."

That's what CM did. But the CM community says "well you don't need to go over 60mph, you don't need those extra controls and man does it look pretty."

[/quote']

Great analogy. The issue is (and btw i don't think DR is a bad game just average and not at all in the spirit of OFP or Arma) is that CM traded on a well respected name and early faked screenshots to build hype for a game which would have gained very little attention had it simply been called "Dragon Rising". Now as I have said over and over the game is average, it isn't broken or excessivly bugging in the standard shooter sense (people will flame me but go play "you are empty" if you want to see a really bad shooter). The issue is that many people CM were dishonest in what they did and this has polarized the players bases of the two games. If anything however in the long run this may actually work for CM's favor because they will come out of this with a small loyal fan base of people who desperately crave a DR sequel. Whether or not it is worth the time or the money is another matter. Personally I don't hate DR but i am annoyed at CM, and not at templar personally, because having worked on projects like this in the past i hate people who create fake hype and thats what they did and in the process they ruined a good game name for many people. Having said that if they want to now move on with the DR name i wish them ever luck in the world.

[jw custom 56]

The thing that saddens me the most is that people (a great amount of which are ARMA fans) bag out the game, call it crap and what not, simply because its called flashpoint, and isnt like the original. or it doesnt have DS. And forget to look at the game thats there. This saddens me because I think of those poor programmers and artists and developers that slaved for hours and hours over this game get to see there "baby" have shit plastered all over it, due to the actions of the publishing branch of CM.

Then your certaintly visiting the wrong forum unless you like being sad :p