ArmA 2

[froggyluv 2136]

Well you can fake physics in games, but don't call it "physically correct". It is far from that, was my message.

Especially if you try to fake dynamic destruction, you are not going to be able to fake it well-enough to rightfully call it "correct", it's practically impossible to achieve in games.

It might be good-enough to fool people who play games, and that is what matters for game developers. But the word "correct" should not be used then.

As an example, look at the relatively simple vehicle destruction model in place in ArmA. Now try to think how you could make it "correct". That requires some serious Engineering work. Start by studying Strength of Materials and Dynamics, and you'll soon understand you won't get your game simulation no where near how such real objects break.

I am maybe nitpicking a little bit here If the game developers are able to make people think something is "realistic", then that is good-enough for them of course. Just that I wouldn't call it "correct" as it definitely won't be that.

I won't talk about this anymore in this thread

I understand what your saying here but in those terms nothing is 'physically correct' in any video game. Even walking is incorrect as real people are constantly making bodily adjustments on both steady and uneven ground let alone carrying equipment.

So it's not so much a matter of 'faking it' rather 'believability'.

Are people, objects, guns, vehicles etc... responding to each other and Earth's natural forces in a believable way.

[DBO_ 0]

I think the fact that the engine is called "Virtual Reality " sums it up nicely. sometimes people can become just a little passionate and dont see what is written ,there is a massive difference between "Reality" and "Virtual Reality" . once we can accept this we have a nice level headed approach. The real word we are looking for is "Realism" I.E to inject some Realism into the Physics.

[moricky 211]

In fact, engine is called "Real Virtuality"

[DBO_ 0]

In fact, engine is called "Real Virtuality"

yes in real life it is ,but in virtual reality it is not , thus emphasising my point

joking ,you got me but you see the point .lol

[baddo 0]

sometimes people can become just a little passionate and dont see what is written

I hope you didn't mix me into that group  

I'm exactly in the opposite group, saying you won't get anywhere near "real physics" in a video game for practical reasons.

Froggyluv, yes yes, that's what I was saying. Don't try to deny what I said when we actually agree  

I gotta raise one point which froggyluv actually reminded me of. The animations. One thing which disturbs me in ArmA is the weird, robotic looking animations. For example there is a cutscene which plays when you are in the main menu of the game. The cutscene shows a soldier's head from close. The soldier turns his head to left, and then back. The turning of the head doesn't get any more robotic than that. The head moves strictly along one axis only, as it looks to me. Very, very un-natural looking head-turn animation. How would I start to fix this? I would insert some random "swaying" into the movement, making the character have "micro-movements" in addition to the movements it has now. The head turn for example looks like it is a mechanical device controlled by some strict limiters in both ends, which stop the mechanical movement precisely. Just that there are no such strict, sudden limiters in a human body. I would also try to add so-called "damping" and "spring" factors to the animations. This probably means that the character body should be somehow simulated jointly by a physics system and the animation system. The physics system would add "spring" and "damping" effects to the animations somehow, and make them random in some limits, so that the system reduces the robotic look of the animations even more.

Luckily it's a programmers headache, not mine, to think how such a system would be implemented.

[Adam Ferante 0]

First reading about "Game 2" I remember reading allot of advanced features like dynamic destruction, advanced next gen features etc, but seeing that ArmA 2 video and the lack of these features, is this actually the "game 2" or has it been replaced by an updated arma? I thought the original projections were 2009? or have I got completely confused and this article is all about the ArmA expansion??

Either way if its coming to consoles without being changed im happy, just a little confused at the same time

[stakex 0]

First reading about "Game 2" I remember reading allot of advanced features like dynamic destruction, advanced next gen features etc, but seeing that ArmA 2 video and the lack of these features, is this actually the "game 2" or has it been replaced by an updated arma? I thought the original projections were 2009? or have I got completely confused and this article is all about the ArmA expansion??

Either way if its coming to consoles without being changed im happy, just a little confused at the same time  

ArmA2 is in fact Game2... which you are correct, looks right now just like a sorta updated ArmA and no ones totally sure if all the old features are there still. As it is right now... it well might be alot less next gen then originally thought. Still to early to tell however.

And thoes 2009 "projections" were just people in the community saying thats when they thought the game was going to come out. The official dates were 2006 and then it was moved back to 2008. Tho with what happened with ArmA... its not impossible for ArmA2 to come out in 2009.

[baddo 0]

Well take a look at what the American car manufacturers predicted in the 1950's how the cars would look like in 50 years time!

Oh they were so wrong. We are still not flying our cars.

[DBO_ 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'm exactly in the opposite group, saying you won't get anywhere near "real physics" in a video game for practical reasons

I dont know about "anywhere near" but they can come near sometimes and also they can have artistic licence . because after all its a game.

Video By DBO_brick

Not real but virtualy real .

[martinovic 0]

I like the videos about the AI taking proper cover.

Hopefully this game will turn out much better than ArmA did.

Although the name ArmA 2 is not a good omen...

edit/

Another thing i would like to add is that i was also very very disappointed in ArmA, but that was BIS' first entirely independant game and maybe this time, with all the feedback (more like flaming) they recieved, they just might make a better game.

[stegman 3]

I like the videos about the AI taking proper cover.

Hopefully this game will turn out much better than ArmA did.

Although the name ArmA 2 is not a good omen...

edit/

Another thing i would like to add is that i was also very very disappointed in ArmA, but that was BIS' first entirely independant game and maybe this time, with all the feedback (more like flaming) they recieved, they just might make a better game.

Oh come on guys, ArmA isn't that disappointing.  If it was then why hasn't every one gone back to OFP?

Sure the campaign was a little poor, but the game is great.  ARmA2 can only be better again, but for gods sake don't expect it to be perfect out of the box.

[froggyluv 2136]

Although I've gotten my money's worth of enjoyment outta ARMA I think BIS realized they made some mistakes which of course they can't comment on publicly or we'd see some posters taking them to the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague

I look at more like a movie trilogy in which Chapter 1+2 were disappointments but 3's a winner ie. Star Wars. The difference is we still get incremental patches while waiting for the sequel. I'd be more disappointed if the sequel was cancelled in lieu of 'the next patch'.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

But I only liked Star Wars 4,5 & 6

:P

[colkurtz 0]

Arma is a good game, but I always understood it to be an 'OFP 1.5' stop gap whilst 'game2', a totally new game along the lines of OFP, was being developed.

Being honest I would have prefered it to be called something other than ARMA2 to reflect the fact that it is truly a fresh new game.

To be frank there are a lot of limitations and lack of features in ARMA that I dread will be carried over to ARMA2, seeing that it is based on a different version of the engine.

But one should put aside these fears, hopes and expectations and see what ARMA2 eventually serves up once it is released.

I'd still be dead keen to gain some level of insight as to the direction BIS wants to take with ARMA2 especially from a realism and AI prespective.

[stakex 0]

Arma is a good game, but I always understood it to be an 'OFP 1.5' stop gap whilst 'game2', a totally new game along the lines of OFP, was being developed.

Being honest I would have prefered it to be called something other than ARMA2 to reflect the fact that it is truly a fresh new game.

To be frank there are a lot of limitations and lack of features in ARMA that I dread will be carried over to ARMA2, seeing that it is based on a different version of the engine.

But one should put aside these fears, hopes and expectations and see what ARMA2 eventually serves up once it is released.

I'd still be dead keen to gain some level of insight as to the direction BIS wants to take with ARMA2 especially from a realism and AI prespective.

When it comes to the name... I really think another reason for releasing ArmA, aside from a stepping stone and money sink... was so they could get the ArmA name out there, instead of starting from scratch with a total new series on their "next gen" game. Lets face it... ArmA was never instended to be a smashing success, and was intended to set up "ArmA2".

Tho unless ArmA2 delivers a punch... and not just another slightly more tuned up version of Flashpoint, its going to bomb. If the physics and such have been kept as is or just "slightly" improved from ArmA... then its going to have to deliver big on the campaign, and AI. Bigger view distance, and brown trees, and a few new vehicles just aren't going to cut it....

[stegman 3]

Tho unless ArmA2 delivers a punch... and not just another slightly more tuned up version of Flashpoint, its going to bomb. If the physics and such have been kept as is or just "slightly" improved from ArmA... then its going to have to deliver big on the campaign, and AI. Bigger view distance, and brown trees, and a few new vehicles just aren't going to cut it....

From what I’ve seen it does look a lot like ArmA, but the AI looks like it's the real selling point.

Have you seen that vid of the squad moving up the street?  The AI soldiers ar hiding behind pillars, leaning around corners.  There’s even a bit where an AI guy goes looking down a dead end road.  This last bit may be the AI trying to stay in formation, but it really looks like he's 'investigating' or clearing the area.

<s>I'll try and find that vid....</s>

[EDIT] Found it here. Check out the top vid to see the AI as i said.

[xnodunitx 0]

Aside from the given points-

Satellite Terrain

Better AI that seeks cover and knows how to lean and sidestep

More immerssive terrain, rolls more and looks more realistic due to tree variation and such.

There was another thing I noticed in a screenshot and I find myself rather curious about, somebody pointed out the shadow which was the first thing that caught my attention.

http://www.armedassault.com/pic_arma2/ArmA2burning.jpg That smoke stack has got to be over 60meters, which if anyone recalls was OFP's and supposedly Arma's geometry limit. Supposedly the engine will be more optimized as well to allow for more detailed enviroments.

Though as far as highest hopes go in terms of performance I hope they remove having to turn shading off just to look past tree's, unless that is a video card driver problem. All in all its still too early to cash judgement, BIS is right to keep it hush hush though.

[Kerry 0]

well, I just want to thank you BIS, for leaving ArmA in the dust, the game we all payed to much for, and doing ArmA 2...

[jakerod 254]

well, I just want to thank you BIS, for leaving ArmA in the dust, the game we all payed to much for, and doing ArmA 2...

Yeah thanks BIS.... oh wait! What's this?

[njmatrix 2]

I am looking forward to OFP2 instead. I think BIS is working the money train now and could really careless about their community. Also I think ArmA2 is no more than a failed VBS2 being repackaged as a new game (hence the huge azz BLUFOR on the side of the new ARMA 2 tank screen shots).

[dm 9]

I think BIS is working the money train now and could really careless about their community.

Which is why they're still working on free patches?

Also I think ArmA2 is no more than a failed VBS2

VBS2 failed? Last I heard it was doing quite well.

being repackaged as a new game

So most people spend all their time whining about how they cant have the apparently "uber" VBS content, now you're complaining that you might end up with it?

(hence the huge azz BLUFOR on the side of the new ARMA 2 tank screen shots).

What screenshots? Care to link them in here?

[sanctuary 19]

I think njmatrix is refering to the radio dialog that can be seen on the lower left part of this screenshot.

[njmatrix 2]

you can quote me all you want but when I buy a game and before the product becomes 6 months old you are telling me that i gotta upgrade to the "better" version it sucks. And as for the "Blufor" comment goto the arma2.com site and the Blufor reference is the order being barked not the on the tank actually but still the same difference. opinions are like **holes everyones got one. Donrt like mine get your nose outta my ***.

[shinRaiden 0]

you can quote me all you want but when I buy a game and before the product becomes 6 months old you are telling me that i gotta upgrade to the "better" version it sucks. And as for the "Blufor" comment goto the arma2.com site and the Blufor reference is the order being barked not the on the tank actually but still the same difference. opinions are like **holes everyones got one. Donrt like mine get your nose outta my ***.

Indeed, you are entitled to your own personal opinion. You are welcome to continue believing whatever nonsensical rubbish you smoke and blow that out your whatever. Especially when it is utterly devoid of any basis in fact or reality.

[njmatrix 2]

well im not gonna sling shit back n forth with someone to prove a point. Like I said I am waiting on OFP2.