Csla 2

[miles teg 1]

Yes, I agree. IMHO decrasing RPG's dammage values was bad choice to simulate no reloading ability. I hope they'll fix it in that upcoming patch.

I'm not sure if it's the RPG dammage values or the vehicle armor values that are changed because even the West LAW soldier's LAW rocket can't destroy a BMP with 3 hits.  

So I'm not sure if they changed the LAW as well.

Whatever the case I hope they change this dammage system simply because it really mucks up game play.  In OFP its never possible to be 100% realistic due to the game engine.  If it makes man-carried AT weapons almost useless then missions become much too difficult.  

I also agree that the OFrP mod's ABL type rocket is the way to go... or basically like the BIS Carl Gustav.... the ammo simply takes up 3 slots so there is no room for a reload. RPG rounds can be carried by a seperate soldier who serves kinda like a walking ammo truck.

That way realistic 2 or 3 man tank hunting teams can be created.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

As I have said. I know RPG-75 wery well. It is czech made weapon and in original OFP is very overestimated. The same for LAW. Do you think that it is possible to take out T-72 with two LAWs? All of you are used to original overestimated BIS setting in 1985 campaign. Please, read following explanation carefully.

RPG-75 is Czech made AT weapon, which is tube launched disposable rocket launcher. Its penetration is claimed to be around 300 mm RHA@90 degrees, it has only 68 mm warhead, I think. Yes, it should take out light armor like BMP in ideal case. There are several factor why it seems (and is) weaker in CSLA.

First - in reality it is disposable. We did not solve this in CSLA mod, will be solved in update as I mentioned previously. As a temporary solution it has decreased penetration.

Secondly - we needed widely spread support weapon, which can take out light armor if proper used.

Third - Due to several OFP engine limitation such as following:

If you hit two or more parts of the fire geometry lod model - energy will be dissipated among these parts and therefore decrease damage for vital AFV parts. This is OFP damage simulation. Try to hit only one part of the model.

Original RPG-75 (same other HEAT based weapons) had very big indirecthit value and indirecthit range (unreal), so it was in this case multiplier which increased chance to knock out the vehicle. It was easy to kill something. A lot of people used to it.

Accuracy of rockets is lower in CSLA than in original game. So be sure what are nearmisses and what are the hits. Especially non experieced AI has troubles to hit well (especially at longer distances - we changed ballistic curve of the round). Even very very close nearmiss (groundhit) don't affect the vehicle very much.

Fouth - it is reality - in original OFP it was easy to take out tank (100 hangrenades can kill the tank)- do you think that many BMPs blow up after they are dissabled? There are hits and penetrations of AFVs than don't harm anything inside...if there is nothing explosive in way of HEAT jet. Normal tactics to kill AFV is to create voley of rockets...single shooter is meat on the table for trigger ready tankers. Also good aiming at some vulnerable spots on AFV is needed. Your chance is use RPG-7 or RPG-7V. Heat charges are vulnerable to storing for the long time on stocks and this degrades their functionality and performance.

Fifth - We wanted to harden fights in beggining of the campaign, when CSLA is low of resources. So crappy AT weapon only is available. There is weapon pool between the missions, so use it and store good weapons in it.

These were reasons for settings of RPG-75. So live is different now. Try to overcome this.

One explanation: BIS should change engine which evaluates AFV damage - this is real crap. It should be based on armor values and penetration of ammo. Until that all will be only estimate limited by engine.

(examples like Abrams or even Warrior taking several RPG hits without probs, or Merkava taking 20+ hits /AT-3, Milans, RPGs/ and survived)

[djukel 0]

If I can't destroy an armor vehicle with 3 rpg hits, then what is this AT weapon for?

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

You can destroy BVP with 2-3 RPG-75 hits. Then RPG-75 is for destroing light armor, I guess :b

[hellfish6 7]

One explanation: BIS should change engine which evaluates AFV damage - this is real crap. It should be based on armor values and penetration of ammo. Until that all will be only estimate limited by engine.

(examples like Abrams or even Warrior taking several RPG hits without probs, or Merkava taking 20+ hits /AT-3, Milans, RPGs/ and survived)

If you ever play any other realistic tactical wargames (Combat Mission, TacOps, Steel Panthers, etc.) dealing with WW2 or modern armored vehicles, you'd notice that not every hit by an anti-tank weapon destroys or even damages the target vehicle. I've had many battles where even an M-1A2 couldn't kill a BMP at 2000m simply because the gun was TOO powerful and went through the BMP without doing serious damage or simply because the hit wasn't catastrophic. A BMP main gun in real life has almost no chance of killing the same M-1A2 in real life, but in OFP, it is possible to kill that M-1 with the low velocity 73mm gun, given enough (5-7) hits. 5-7 hits in real life MIGHT scratch the pain on the M-1, or at the very worst knock out the commander's machinegun or gunner's optics.

The way it works in OFP is that every single hit does damage. Even rifle fire or bad driving can eventually break an armored vehicle in OFP. I agree that this system needs to be greatly reworked in OFP.

[whisperFFW06 0]

Quote[/b] ]If I can't destroy an armor vehicle with 3 rpg hits, then what is this AT weapon for?

Soft vehicles, and at best APCs. Not heavy armor. Static AT and some portable AT weapons are there for heavy armors.

LAW and RPG-75 definitly shouldn't be able to disable, in 3 approximative shots, heavy armor.

[MEDICUS 0]

Hi Maa,

is CSLA II really playable with Finmod?

That would be REALLY sweet  

(Didn't try it yet...)

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

I agree with those two previous posts. In infantry AT combat (in case of CSLA mod) I would go for RPG-7V. Maybe other AT weapons (more powerfull) will be introduced in future into CSLA. This mod has been set to work with campaign. There is no use of M1A2 or T80/90. There is no need for real tank killing AT rockets.

Agree that main prob is with damage model. I hope it will be changed by OFP2.

[Gollum1 0]

Here is my MOAB, or Mother Of All Buglists

Also, some requests:

Pilot optics in first-person view on Hind don't match up to where the rounds hit, and is useless.

For a player flying the Hind, the gear should automatically be put up if the helicopter starts in the air.

Lots of vehicles use the BIS optics of the Abrams. Surely they use other optics IRL.

The machine gun sounds should be louder and beefier.

The SA-58 sound should be changed.

The SA-58 reload sound should be much longer, the reload animation takes 3 seconds but the sound is just a click, it looks funny.

In the editor, the Para names are formatted: Para-MG, Para-RPG etc. but the radioman is Para Radio with a space. Also about the editor names, I don't get it-isn't a grenadier or officer Infantry?

The Grenadier uses a BIS AK-74 with GL. Isn't that wrong, shouldn't he at least use an AK-47 with GL? The CSLA doesn't use 5.45 mm ammo, right?

Why oh why do tripod-mounted UK-59s have different sounds than hand-held UK-59s?

Finally, please make the Russian equipment usable independent from CSLA mod.

It looks like I can't start CSLA with Kegetys hisky, could that be supported? Not sure about that, will have to test...

Some special effects and smoke grenades that block AI vision, like in JAM or FDF, would be nice, plus sharper, FDF style fonts and editor.

Well, that's all for now

The vehicles in your mod are all VERY high-quality and sweet, some vehicles that I especially liked were the Tatra trucks.

[miles teg 1]

Ah ok... so basically that means that the armor values aren't changed just the dammage values of the AT rockets?  I guess that's not so bad as making uber tanks.

My apologies for mixing that up. I had thought that the armor values had gone up on the vehicles.

As far as realism goes, yes volley fire is the norm for AT tactics, but in practice I've seen plenty of video of single RPG's wiping out BMPs.  In addition any penetration of HEAT warhead generally also causes alot of hot metal to be sprayed all over the inside of the vehicle which can not only be highly lethal but also can set off ammunition stored inside.  From the looks of pics inside the BMP it doesn't seem to have much of an anti-spall liner (if any) so I imagine that shrapnel would bounce around pretty good inside until its absorbed by human bodies or other objects in the BMP.  

Likewise in Vietnam LAW rockets were used successfully to destroy PT-76 tanks.  I don't believe volley fire was used much in Vietnam against these tanks as generally these tanks were used in surprise assaults on US Army Special Forces camps in which it was just a few men who were able to use the LAW rockets during very desperate battles.  Likewise the tiny LAW rocket was used successfully against North Vietnamese T54/55's (in Hue I believe) by the South Vietnamese army... in that case using volley fire and skilled anti-tank ambush tactics such as firing into the rear and the top of the tank.

But at any rate, I understand that you are dealing not with real life, but with the limitations of the OFP engine and so you are simply making a judgement call on what's the best way to make it most realistic.

So if you guys aren't going to change that then I respect that decision and yes, tank killing will indeed be somewhat more challenging.    

However I still hope that your team will release a seperate Russian vehicle pack to use with other mods.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

Why oh why do tripod-mounted UK-59s have different sounds than hand-held UK-59s?

Hand version of UK-59 has lighter and shorter barrel than stationary UK-59 on tripod. Tripod version has longer and heavier barrel and modified mechanism. Maybe this is the explanation.

Edited due to bad grammar

[maximilien 0]

(sorry for my poor english)

TEST TO MERGE THE 2 mods

warning : its a experience

I have modified my launcher for

CSLAII+finmod

For example :

"C:\operationflashpoint\FLASHPOINTBETA.exe -nomap -nosplash -mod=finmod -mod=csla"

conclusion :

the main menu is from csla moD.

The editor give you the vehicule's choice from the two mods !

"some error messages"

well, the baÄonet animation from csla work but do not damage

other soldats...

Some conflicts, but nothing very catastrophic.

Could you post your experiences ? please ?

[EiZei 0]

Umm, have I missed anything else than new east helicopters that would warrant forcing fdfmod and csla to work together simultaneusly?

[da_ofp_man 0]

would warrant forcing fdfmod and csla to work together simultaneusly?

huh?

Quote[/b] ]Could you post your experiences ? please ?

testing under way

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

@Chris

We woldn't change settings until RPG-75 disposability will be solved or MAJOR playability probs will occur. We have discussed it very much and knowing all the facts we have chosen this way. ATM. I don't think is is MAJOR prob. Until new damage model wiil be incorporated into OFP we all will be making compromises.

If you like OT-62 or PT-76 - what about version which could be used by IDF? Aka Gonen force?

BTW OT-62 is my first addon, PT-76 second .

[Dwarden 1125]

Bobby maybe i misunderstood ur comment, but Merkava mk3 alive dozen hits from RPGs in real (or You was commenting real? ) lol

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

What I know (I hope I remember correctly):

There is documented case when Merkava MK.2 (I think) during routine patrol survived ambush layed on Golan. The tank has been hit by more than 20 AT rounds (some reports are talking about 22, some 23) of above mentioned types. Tank succedeed return to base, loader has been killed because he has been outside of his hatch. Other crewmembers survived. Case has been filmed by attackers (I don't remember who were they - HAMAS?).

My comment was that it is known case and in case of RPG-75 sooo strong it wouldn't be possible. (even with present setting it wouldn't survived).

[ExtracTioN 0]

@ExtracTioN :

Thanx for bug report. We look at this bug in mission 15 and we will fix it in first update.

Plz on which version of OFP are you running CSLA2?

have installed v1.91 and beta 1.94 and I start csla with the shortcut that comes with the mod: CLSA 2 (FPBETA).exe

[MAA 127]

@ExtracTioN:

Hmm, I tested that mission (it is mission 16 "Tanks & Ammo") and it is working fine for me. I tested it under 1.91 (CSLA2 shortcut.. CSLA2 FPBETA is for your actual betaversion 1.94 -1.96).

Are you using cheats in missions?

How many soldiers do you have in that mission available in your team plz?

Are you using any unoficial addons together with CSLA? (in ADDONS or RES\ADDONS folder)

edited: added next questions

[Te kakan 0]

FUCK !!!! I CANT PLAY IT !!!! AZGGHHH IT JUST KICKS ME OUT OF OFP AND NO ERRO MESSAGE ! WHATS WRONG ?!?!?! I have Radeon 9800 XT 256MB is something wrong wiht it ?

[MAA 127]

@Te kakan

If you have Radeon card, you must create your own shortcut for starting CSLA II. MOD

for 1.91:

FLASHPOINTRESISTANCE.EXE -nomap -nosplash -mod=csla

and for beta version 1.94-1.96

FLASHPOINTBETA.exe -nomap -nosplash -mod=csla

But we are recommending play CSLA campaign under 1.91!

[Te kakan 0]

Thx Maa .... gonna try it now then... post if it works or if it dont

[Te kakan 0]

THANK GOD !!! IT WORKS !!! hmmmm error messag " No Entry `config.bin/CfgWeapons.JAM_m79`.... what the hell does that mean?

[MAA 127]

@Te kakan:

It is conflict with some unofficial addon...

Try move all unofficial addons from your ADDONS and RES\ADDONS folders to new MOD folder (for example ALLMODS) and run it as mod.... Look at AvonLady's FAQ page or search this official forums for details.

I highly recommeded run all unofficial addons as MODs, because some addons cause problems.

[Gollum1 0]

Why oh why do tripod-mounted UK-59s have different sounds than hand-held UK-59s?

Hand version of UK-59 has lighter and shorter barrel than stationary UK-59 on tripod. Tripod version has longer and heavier barrel and modified mechanism. Maybe this is the explanation.

Edited due to bad grammar

Maybe, but they sure aren't the real sounds, one is the BIS PK sound and the other the weak UK-59 sound.

EDIT: BTW I love the working bayonet.