Fixed Wing Flight Model (dev branch)

[dezkit 28]

The flight model right now is very unrealistic and unique of other games.

It feels as if jets are gliding through the air.

If you roll your plane to the right or left, it doesn't move.

I suggest for there to be more improvements in the flight model to match that of other games such as GTA 5, Battlefield 3 or 4, War Thunder, or even flight simulation games such as Flight Simulator X or X-Plane.

Some suggestions include:

1. Weight

2. Wind and pressure

3. Flaps improvement

4. Rolling improvements

[St. Jimmy 272]

Airplanes: removed auto-rudder

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?149636-Development-Branch-Changelog&p=2531121&viewfull=1#post2531121

There was a ticket about removing auto-rudder.

Here you go

[progamer 14]

Does anybody else feel like the jet does not turn when you roll? I mean it gets to the point where I have to use my rudders to turn.

It did not feel like this in the main branch.

Its the beginning of a better fixed wing flight model. :)

[dezkit 28]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?149636-Development-Branch-Changelog&p=2531121&viewfull=1#post2531121

There was a ticket about removing auto-rudder.

Here you go

No sorry, this isn't the problem.

I have had auto-rudder removed from my config since forever. I don't have anything bound to right-turn and left-turn.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

The natural flight model for Fix wing Fast Air in Arma is not the best. I've played tons of air games, and i know the best, most realistic, and immersive flight models when i feel it. But here is how the Arma flight model works. The current problem, since Arma 2, is that Auto rudder, has provided the gravity motion when you roll your plane 90 degrees. For example, the maneuver "Knife Edge". When you Roll 90 and hold sideways, without using rudders, your aircraft should automatically slowly start to bank downward, due to gravity, and no lift element as your plane simply "Slices" through the air. Now when you do the same maneuver, and use rudders, you can counter act that, or further make the plane bank downwards. But that isn't how the Arma flight model works. It could use some serious improvements.

[John Kozak 14]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?149636-Development-Branch-Changelog&p=2531121&viewfull=1#post2531121

There was a ticket about removing auto-rudder.

Here you go

Well, I kind of agree with the removal of auto-rudder (because it was badly tuned and caused oscillations). However, the plane when banking (say, at 30-45 degrees) experiences two effects:

1. It slides in the direction of bank (which is what the auto-rudder must counter)
   
2. It changes the direction of flight, because the lift (which is roughly perpendicular to the wing plane) has not both vertical and horizontal components. This will force the plane to start gaining negative vertical airspeed (unless pilot pulls the stick) and change horizontal flight direction (the harder the pilot is on the stick, the more)
   

Both effects are currently missing.

The natural flight model for Fix wing Fast Air in Arma is not the best. I've played tons of air games, and i know the best, most realistic, and immersive flight models when i feel it. But here is how the Arma flight model works. The current problem, since Arma 2, is that Auto rudder, has provided the gravity motion when you roll your plane 90 degrees. For example, the maneuver "Knife Edge". When you Roll 90 and hold sideways, without using rudders, your aircraft should automatically slowly start to bank downward, due to gravity, and no lift element as your plane simply "Slices" through the air. Now when you do the same maneuver, and use rudders, you can counter act that, or further make the plane bank downwards. But that isn't how the Arma flight model works. It could use some serious improvements.

Agree with that, and the list can actually be continued on and on...

1. (What was said above in response to St. Jimmy)
   
2. Flaps do not have an effect they should - decreasing the stall speed. It can be especially felt in air combat
   
3. The aircraft bleeds speed far too easily (although it may be attribited to low T/W ratio of A143's prototype - L-39)
   
4. There's no visible relation between the plane load and maneuverability
   

etc.

Of course, making it all correctly is no easy task. That's why there's not so many good flight sims out there.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I know only one flight sim that can pull of the loadout aspect, it's called YSFlight. Not the best, its more arcade like but the way the scripts are used, are so simple, it's probably worth looking into. You can take off in an empty CF-18 and it would maneuver fantastically, but if you were to load 500lb bombs on, it would take longer to gain lift, and elongate the time it takes to reach the end of the runway. I was in a situation ounce where i had to drop my bombs, or risk being shot down in an Air-to-Air Engagement, that i would have surely lost due to too much weight on my wings.

[pils 49]

Hmm now that we talk about the Buzzard and its tweaking. I'd appreciate realistic damage, a more realistic rate of fire and proper soundeffects for the autocannon.

[Zorg_DK 10]

Also, when you roll inverted the nose should drop. It's doesn't move much atm.

[dragon01 902]

I know only one flight sim that can pull of the loadout aspect, it's called YSFlight. Not the best, its more arcade like but the way the scripts are used, are so simple, it's probably worth looking into. You can take off in an empty CF-18 and it would maneuver fantastically, but if you were to load 500lb bombs on, it would take longer to gain lift, and elongate the time it takes to reach the end of the runway. I was in a situation ounce where i had to drop my bombs, or risk being shot down in an Air-to-Air Engagement, that i would have surely lost due to too much weight on my wings.

The old F/A18 Super Hornet also does this. Not only weapons, even fuel load. If you take off the carrier full, with a huge load of heavy bombs, you're going to "settle" so much that it seems like you're gonna hit the water for a while. Also, it flies like a cow with such a load. You actually have to jettison fuel and ordnance before landing if you're overweight.

[dezkit 28]

In any game on any platform under any genre, rolling an airplane will cause it to turn. I do not know the reasoning behind not making it turn. Please revert back to the way it was!

Why is BIS seem to be ignoring us :-(

[Gutsnav 13]

In any game on any platform under any genre, rolling an airplane will cause it to turn. I do not know the reasoning behind not making it turn. Please revert back to the way it was!

Why is BIS seem to be ignoring us :-(

Excuse me if this comes off rude, but have you ever flown an airplane? Simply rolling the aircraft will not make it turn, the only turning it will be doing is towards the ground due to the knife's edge effect. Not exactly a recommended air maneuver. If you want to turn, roll slightly in that direction and pull up.

[[frl]myke 14]

In any game on any platform under any genre, rolling an airplane will cause it to turn.

Then any game on any platform under any genre does it wrong. Try it with MS Flight simulator, DCS:A-10 or the Lock on series, then report back.

I do not know the reasoning behind not making it turn.

Because doing a roll is just that: a roll. To turn, combine roll and climb maneuvre.

Please revert back to the way it was!

From what i know it was never any different.

ArmA 3 isn't a realistic flight simulator but at least it's flight model is by far better than in any other FPS game available to date.

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Mike your wrong there. The lift element of the wing which supports you against gravity when flying level acts upwards from the wing. Once rolled at 45deg that upward lift is no longer acting straight up against gravity, only half of it is. So you end up turning and dropping. Dropping due to less vertical lift. Turning because that vertical lift is now pulling the plane sideways and it would go in a big wide circle if not allowed to drop.

[[frl]myke 14]

Mike your wrong there. The lift element of the wing which supports you against gravity when flying level acts upwards from the wing. Once rolled at 45deg that upward lift is no longer acting straight up against gravity, only half of it is. So you end up turning and dropping. Dropping due to less vertical lift. Turning because that vertical lift is now pulling the plane sideways and it would go in a big wide circle if not allowed to drop.

Correct but according to the thread starter understanding of flight physics, i decided to keep it as simple as possible, knowing the inaccuracies of it.

Simply said, just rolling the plane wont make a significant turn.

[Redphoenix 1540]

Mike your wrong there. The lift element of the wing which supports you against gravity when flying level acts upwards from the wing. Once rolled at 45deg that upward lift is no longer acting straight up against gravity, only half of it is. So you end up turning and dropping. Dropping due to less vertical lift. Turning because that vertical lift is now pulling the plane sideways and it would go in a big wide circle if not allowed to drop.

That's why mostly fin rudder is used to compensate part of this effect.

[dezkit 28]

Myke;2565750']Then any game on any platform under any genre does it wrong. Try it with MS Flight simulator' date=' DCS:A-10 or the Lock on series, then report back.

Because doing a roll is just that: a roll. To turn, combine roll and climb maneuvre.

From what i know it was never any different.

ArmA 3 isn't a realistic flight simulator but at least it's flight model is by far better than in any other FPS game available to date.[/quote']

Played FS since 2003, can confirm my previous statement.

I would like you to look at this video at that time frame (318s) and tell me if the aircraft is moving to the right or standing dead still in the air

Thanks buddy.

Oh and also to prove to me your validity please show me one game that does something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHpIYgGKWoc&feature=youtu.be

Edited November 27, 2013 by dezkit

[dezkit 28]

Bis pls respond

[saul 24]

No more e z mode for flight!!!

[oukej 2910]

Bis pls respond

:popup:

[Tankbuster 1744]

Respect to Ondrej for thread bombing with a smiley on his day off!

[james2464 176]

Everyone? :popup:

[enex 11]

respect!

[progamer 14]

The reason the flight model is the way it is, is because the awful auto rudder was removed. It can be added back by editing the config. But rather than trying to fight for getting the auto rudder back, fight for an overhaul of the fixed wing flight model.

[trent 14]

Myke;2565750']Then any game on any platform under any genre does it wrong. Try it with MS Flight simulator' date=' DCS:A-10 or the Lock on series, then report back.[/quote']

No DCS, LockOn and IL-2 all had it. It's not a hard turn but you do drift in the direction.