Fixed Wing Flight Model (dev branch)

[[aps]gnat 28]

This

Mike your wrong there. The lift element of the wing which supports you against gravity when flying level acts upwards from the wing. Once rolled at 45deg that upward lift is no longer acting straight up against gravity, only half of it is. So you end up turning and dropping. Dropping due to less vertical lift. Turning because that vertical lift is now pulling the plane sideways and it would go in a big wide circle if not allowed to drop.

And this

That's why mostly fin rudder is used to compensate part of this effect.

Its an apparent lack of a 3 dimensional lift and drag simulation.

Appears "Lift" isn't simulated in anything other than the vertical.

And rudder control is only a "correctional" technique.

If BI could get this simulation working just a bit, us Aircraft fanatics would pee ourselves and start worshipping whatever gods the Czech Republic has !!

[mankyle 370]

I absolutely agree that adding a better layer of aircraft simulation (specially considering the sizes tha island can reach now) would be outstanding.

And regarding the Gods worshipped in the Czech Republik. Here you have a partial picture of the pantheon

http://blog.esky.bg/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Czech-beers.jpg (287 kB)

[dezkit 28]

I have updated the OP because it seemed very outdated.

[wattywatts 76]

And regarding the Gods worshipped in the Czech Republik. Here you have a partial picture of the pantheon

So true :)

[[aps]gnat 28]

So true :)

LOL .... ok, so we worship similar gods ... easy :)

[yankiedoodle45 10]

Has anyone one else had problems getting the Buzzard too taxi or take off since the December 2 update? I just tried too play a couple of missions and it won't move on the ground at all.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Uninstall the LCS/ship, that's the source of the problem.

[dezkit 28]

Has anyone one else had problems getting the Buzzard too taxi or take off since the December 2 update? I just tried too play a couple of missions and it won't move on the ground at all.

Only hold your accelerate button. Don't try to turn and go forward. This is a small bug

[Dwarden 1124]

i already stated many times i would like to get JSBSim (or better) into game for fixed wing and ofc improved rotor crafts too :)

for my coworkes AIII-2395 ;)

[dezkit 28]

i already stated many times i would like to get JSBSim (or better) into game for fixed wing and ofc improved rotor crafts too :)

for my coworkes AIII-2395 ;)

so get spanel's approval and get working on it. :)

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

That's it, im gonna end this right now. The Flight simulator series are horrific. Lock on has a better flight model. But the truth is, getting the best flight model, or rather anything done right for a game, comes from watching and observing the real thing. Take a look at this aircraft manuver. The thrust to weight ratio on take off, and landing. Observe its elegence through a medium roll.

[progamer 14]

i already stated many times i would like to get JSBSim (or better) into game for fixed wing and ofc improved rotor crafts too :)

for my coworkes AIII-2395 ;)

JSBSim would be nice, it even calculations the Coriolis effect on aircraft. Even better would be the single best game ever made in all of existence.

But a sim flight model would be a good investment to draw in aircraft sim players. Those sim players love the new clouds, if that was combined with a sim flight model, they'd buy it instantly. Because who wouldn't want to have actual infantry and ground vehicles fighting while their flying?

[[evo] dan 79]

JSBSim would be nice, it even calculations the Coriolis effect on aircraft. Even better would be the single best game ever made in all of existence.

But a sim flight model would be a good investment to draw in aircraft sim players. Those sim players love the new clouds, if that was combined with a sim flight model, they'd buy it instantly. Because who wouldn't want to have actual infantry and ground vehicles fighting while their flying?

Only problem is I think the map would have to be bigger in order to make planes feel they are worth it, unless you stick with much smaller aircraft. Not saying I wouldn't want it though because I would love it (Just make sure you show the helis the same love)

[Dwarden 1124]

reason i mentioned JSBSim as example is (opensource, c++, threading support, xml definitions, tons of customization and sample FM definitions already available, used by FlightGear and Outerra)

[[evo] dan 79]

reason i mentioned JSBSim as example is (opensource, c++, threading support, xml definitions, tons of customization and sample FM definitions already available, used by FlightGear and Outerra)

I wonder how well it plays with PhysX though, and what the performance hit will be as I recall that was one of the biggest concerns with trying to implement the TOH flight model so I am wondering if those reasons would rule it out. Are you guys (BIS) thinking of looking at trying it out or is it just you putting a what if? scenario out there?

[the_demongod 31]

That's it, im gonna end this right now. The Flight simulator series are horrific. Lock on has a better flight model. But the truth is, getting the best flight model, or rather anything done right for a game, comes from watching and observing the real thing. Take a look at this aircraft manuver. The thrust to weight ratio on take off, and landing. Observe its elegence through a medium roll.

Interestingly enough (whether this was intentional or not), the jet in this video, the Yak-130, is to be our OPFOR ground attack jet (not exactly, but it will be based heavily off of it: take a look). I really hope it has as good a thrust-to-weight ratio as the Yak-130 does.

[progamer 14]

Interestingly enough, I made a ticket for JSBsim A while back: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15928

[nicolasroger 11]

I have a wild memory about them not adding the TOH flight model because the Ai couldn't use it properly.

That was during alpha stage. Things might have changed.

[Deathstrike. 15]

The current flight model system for both the L-159 and the other series of Helicopters (Barring the KA-60's current flight model) is sufficient. And the recently added FM's for the Lynx's shows they are on the right path for this stuff. Minor gripes are still there though, but we have to remember that Arma's scale does not fit in with normal aircraft operations so overall it isn't the most needed area for corrections or adjustment. Personally my only gripe with the fixed wing handling is how the L-159 crabs with only a slight roll of a few degrees, making it seems like a low wing loading aircraft or similar to it being in a high cross wind.

The extra effects of ToH weren't added as per the AI's handling of it iirc from a post Dwarden made on a separate forum by the name of Facepunch. Which makes sense, as the AI is still unable to handle aircraft and helicopters in their current state, so trying to factor in wind, torque and other additional factors sounds like a nightmare. (One of the to-do things that they never got round to due to their limits.) I was sad to hear this personally, as I'd rather have it for player controlled vehicles whilst the AI retain a simpler flight model or some common sense but again, this isn't the most high priority of areas compared to the mainstay of current infantry and vehicle related issues.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Interestingly enough (whether this was intentional or not), the jet in this video, the Yak-130, is to be our OPFOR ground attack jet (not exactly, but it will be based heavily off of it: take a look). I really hope it has as good a thrust-to-weight ratio as the Yak-130 does.

Intentional as they have the same baseline design. Video = Yak-130, Render Version = Yak-131 One seater variant, which should have better Thrust to weight ratio than it's trainer 2 seat cousin, yes your right. Though, purpose of the video, is to visualize how fixed wing jet planes move through the air through turns, and different maneuvers. HOWEVER, i just realized, not only is the Yak-130 a trainor... Its a fighter trainer as well. If BIS gets the physx right with this one, it could make for some good progress in the fix wing genre.

Better example---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lij3LOX7hsQ

Edited January 2, 2014 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[dezkit 28]

BIS, can we get a simple temporary revert to the flight model for now? similar to how it is in arma 2?

oh btw darksideofficial i'm the guy that asked in the wasteland server if ur person who posts on the forum lol

Edited January 4, 2014 by dezkit

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

BIS, can we get a simple temporary revert to the flight model for now? similar to how it is in arma 2?

oh btw darksideofficial i'm the guy that asked in the wasteland server if ur person who posts on the forum lol

Yes... Yes i am... But to be honest, when i'd like to see out of a decent flight model, is that even though you pull up your aircraft, if you stall at a certain speed, there would still be slight stall maneuverability, which depends on the engines, thrust, and which way they are facing.

[progamer 14]

BIS, can we get a simple temporary revert to the flight model for now? similar to how it is in arma

If we get it changed back, I think it would become even more unlikely to get a better flight model. Because BI would think "It worked in past Arma games, so why change it?"

[izaiak 1]

will something change with the coming fixed wings ?

It is time to focus a little bit to your flight model BIS. The gameplay would be better.

[evromalarkey 150]

So BIS, can new planes fly still backwards? :D This is just ridiculous, you should really improve the flight model a bit. At least fix this ridiculous backward flying.