Does anyone kind of feel like buying the Marksman DLC was a donation?

[rekkless 240]

So this isn't in the slightest a complaint about the Marksman DLC.

But after paying $20 odd (Australian Dollars) for what I (we) got I really don't think I got my moneys worth.

Now perhaps it is because in the Arma community we are totally spoilt for free weapons, uniforms and mods but i really didn't find using the DLC for the first time all that overwhelming or impressive. There really was no 'wow' moment that I would have probably gotten had the DLC been $5-7.

I mean I wouldn't ask for a refund I've gotten close to 800 hours out of Arma 3 which is more than 3 times more time than the next closest game on steam. So I'm perfectly happy to chip in a show support to a company who has made a great product.

But I honestly feel like I paid $5 for new weapons and a $15 donation or pat on the back to Bohemia Interactive like I was buying a red ribbon from the Red Cross or something.

I mean Overkill (the guys who make Payday 2) are famous for releasing weapons packs every other week and they get flack for charging $5-$6.50 for their weapons packs that contribute about the same amount of content and also offer up free platform updates.

I know the rest of the update got bipods, new sounds, virtual garage etc. etc. but I would have had those regardless and while I'm not dissatisfied with my purchase I really don't think I or anyone else who got the DLC really got their moneys worth in a raw consumer comparative sense. And I am having a really hard time recommending the DLC to my squad outside of the whole "Support the guys who have made this great platform" speech.

I suppose it comes down to what I said earlier with being spoiled by free Mods. If everyone just had 100% vanilla the content would seem substantial, maybe not $20 substantial but it would feel like they added a lot to the game. But when you have a 40 mod collection with weapons packs like RHS, SMA and HLC it becomes a lot harder to see the value in your purchase.

Again this isn't a bash at the DLC, everything BI did with it they did to a very high standard. What is in the DLC looks great, sounds great and handles well, just that there really isn't much of it for the price you pay. Kind of like a really expensive dinner at a high end hotel; I've spent a lot of money on a 3 course 'fine dining' experience but I leave the establishment still hungry and have to stop off at McDonald's on the drive home.

But does anyone else feel like they more or less made a donation to Bohemia Interactive getting the Marksman DLC or am I delusional?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Rekkless

[somesangheili 111]

I think that some of the DLC stuff should have already been in the game on release, but the devs probably ran out of time and said "we'll just compile a bunch of features and content together and turn it into a DLC" and made us pay money for some of the stuff...

I mean the game should have had a Huron and 2 MMGs on release

[Jackal326 1181]

My initial feeling (garnered from reading between the lines of early BI reports relating to the DLC announcement and such) was that by buying the DLC(s) you were funding development of the updates that go along side them (i.e. funding bipods and deployment to go along with the new weapons of Marksman, and funding the advanced flight model to go with the helicopters DLC). If me spending ~£20 helps BI develop a better game (and I get some cool new guns and #bipods to use with them (as well as on guns I develop), I'm happy to "donate".

I think that some of the DLC stuff should have already been in the game on release, but the devs probably ran out of time and said "we'll just compile a bunch of features and content together and turn it into a DLC" and made us pay money for some of the stuff...

I mean the game should have had a Huron and 2 MMGs on release

You could take that stance with ANY game with DLC though. I get what you're saying, but there are time/resource constraints to be taken into account, and a limit one what can be added before data-locking etc for production deadlines and the like.

[fareast 20]

weapons is not the only content...2 new scopes, 2 remote designators, full ghillie suits, firing drills and marksmen showcase..

[SaOk 112]

There is much new features with the new items/weapons. Worth of every penny for me. The new music tracks are very nice too for cutscenes/cinema. You can get most of the stuff for free in patches, but why not support the game that offers thousand of hours of playtime.

[heavygunner 179]

Next time they should lock everything behind a big paywall, including bipods and weapon resting.

Atleast people will stop saying that 12€ is too much for some guns.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I would have appreciated more scenario's to play around with the new content, now it did kinda feel like a donation. However i do like the new features so much that i didn't mind buying it. Also, i like this DLC model and want to support it.

(I didn't care about the helicopter stuff, so back then i couldn't even be bothered to take a look at it)

Edited April 9, 2015 by NeMeSiS

[tpw 2315]

I buy DLC regardless, to keep the cash flowing and the development happening.

I used precisely 0 features from the heli DLC, but was happy to support BI by buying it.

The marksmen DLC has a lot of useful infantry features which I already can't do without. Maybe they should have been introduced when the game was in alpha and supposedly concentrating on infantry mechanics, but I'm glad they're here now.

I just hope that with the DLC released the team can be redeployed to address some other long standing concerns and regressions.

[thecanadianvending 24]

You aren't buying the content, you are supporting the devs. When no one buys the DLC, the engine updates (FFV, Bipods, etc) don't get produced. It's just that there is cooler content for you to use as a bonus

[maturin 12]

I know the rest of the update got bipods, new sounds, virtual garage etc. etc. but I would have had those regardless and while I'm not dissatisfied with my purchase I really don't think I or anyone else who got the DLC really got their moneys worth in a raw consumer comparative sense. And I am having a really hard time recommending the DLC to my squad outside of the whole "Support the guys who have made this great platform" speech.

So what you're saying, is that you're an ingrate.

Let's be clear: to people who care about improving core ArmA gameplay and the continued progress of realism in the series, the weapon resting, bipods, new sounds, suppression and engine updates ARE the DLC. The weapons are just fun extras.

BI is being a class act by giving us all the best stuff for free. Buying the DLC isn't a donation to BI. The reverse is true. BI giving us the engine updates for free is a donation TO YOU. Absolutely class-act corporate behavior that shows a lot of faith in the company's relationship with customers.

At the same time, BI probably couldn't have justified releasing such an enormous amount of groundbreaking content without the prospect of new revenue. If no one was going to buy the DLC, none of the engine updates would have happened. And the new engine features are worth lots and lots of money in my book. It's a win-win, so quite picking at it. Or just don't buy the DLC. I didn't, but that's more because I have a personal 'no paid DLC, no buying full price games ever' rule.

[pleasant 34]

So this isn't in the slightest a complaint about the Marksman DLC.

But after paying $20 odd (Australian Dollars) for what I (we) got I really don't think I got my moneys worth.

I feel that way about the entire game.

I'm still waiting for one, just one, actual aircraft that might actually occupy some future battle space. Osprey, F22? Anyone....?

New weapons? XM8, XM25 or XML17..?

Switching weapons on the move?

Streams, ponds?

Explosives handling?

Optimization?

Multiplayer fixes?

When Bohemia announced that the newest addition to what has been incredible series (until now) would be set 30 years in the future I almost lost my mind with excitement and anticipation.

Then I got the Alpha and rationalized, "These are just the basic weapons. They're saving the good stuff for the release."

Then came the announcement at the end of the Beta that "no further content was coming with the gold release." That they had essentially offered the community the entirety if the new content during the Beta...

My shock and disappointment were only compounded with karts then absurd gun sway, helicopters and now this.

Please Bohemia!

To whom it may concern,

I have been a stalwart advocate of this series since Armed Assault.

I am not some troll or deep rooted cynic. I don't want to be writing this post. Nor am I interested in any form of response either from the community or otherwise.

Simply put. At this point, I am completely and utterly disappointed with the product I purchased. That's it. That's all.

[garensterz 10]

As long as the developers keep supporting the game and adding features, I'll be glad to donate whenever.

[chrisb 196]

I didn't buy it.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I'm one of the suckers that bought the Supporter's Edition, lol.

[twisted 128]

Great idea. Bis should stop giving away all the features included in the dlc and make it so only if you pay can you use them.

Then the perceived value would be greater to the huge amount of twenty bucks.

And I think they should apply that retroactively, so no ffv, no bipods, no AFM, no resting, unless you pay.

[slim_jim 10]

To me it feels like donating and purchasing at the same time. Most of us have spent thousands of hours having a great time ingame and when my purchase helps to secure the ongoing development, great!

I was surprised how they handled DLC in arma 2 and the arma 3 approach was even more surprising. What I mean is, they're honest. "WYSIWYG", but you guys are always able to find room to moan ;)

I've not driven a single race with carts, I'm not using the advanced flight model nor the helo's, but I'm always happy when I can support the people who filled thousands of hours with joy (and a little anger here and there :p).

Just seeing the sling loading in action is beautiful isn't it!? ^^ I don't even need to use it to take an advantage from it. There are still alot of heavily suggested features that are not there yet or even out of scope, or these features not fitting into BI's vision, but there is also a big list with stuff we've received since gold. BI is pretty close to their community, from techreps to britreps, feedback tracker and threads, so who is the presentee here? :)

An upvoted comment somewhere on youtube said; 'With ArmA 2 DLC's we got whole factions with weapons, vehicles and such.'

True, after all these years we probably all learned what a stubborn child the RV engine can be, but a sandbox with the doors wide open for modding/modularity is not that easy to work with. Not to mention maintaining a certain quality within vanilla features/content and not breaking existing stuff. That's what some people need to learn. I'm not a modder, but as a programmer I can imagine that with every added feature, there is most likely more to configure when adding new contents, so you end up having less content in the same amount of time, not to mention a higher poly count/texture res. And as BI said, even before alpha, it's quality over quantity and they mean it.

-Stehen Sie bequem

Edited April 10, 2015 by Slim_Jim

[gibonez 18]

In a way yes.

I had little interest in the weapons, or the content however I will always support BI so ofcourse I own all the dlc.

[silentghoust 132]

Again, you have to compare what other companies do with DLC. As I stated before, there is games were you can't even play with your buddies if you don't have the same DLC. The other thing I like to point out is the nature of the DLC's. Like some have mentioned before your supporting more then just new assets, your adding new game mechanics that take a lot more resources then creating a new rifle.

I didn't even hesitate to buy it, knowing that it supports one of my favorite developers. For now, I suggest people be patient, we will get our "operation Arrowhead" worth of content soon enough. We waited it out this long, we can wait out even longer.

[windies 11]

The DLC as it looks from a pure consumer perspective is really that of a donation system where you get some cool stuff for donating, weapons, missions, music etc... but the real meat you are gonna get anyways in the platform updates. That's just how it is from a consumers perspective. Rationalize it how you want or whatever but it is what it is in practice.

I'm not saying it needs defending, or it's a poor system, or really passing judgement on it. Whether you buy it or not is honestly a personal choice and there's no right or wrong in it. What's funny is seeing the people going "OMG You got thousands of hours of enjoyment, You're an ingrate for thinking this stuff isn't worth it or should be free or blah blah blah" as if viewing it from that perspective, the perspective of the consumer, is somehow wrong. There's really a culture clash among this community, between people who are coders or programmers and feel sympathy for every little woe or headache they believe BI to have felt or succumbed too and then people who are just basically consumers who buy something and either the content meets or fails to meet their standard of value.

[rekkless 240]

So what you're saying, is that you're an ingrate.

Let's be clear: to people who care about improving core ArmA gameplay and the continued progress of realism in the series, the weapon resting, bipods, new sounds, suppression and engine updates ARE the DLC. The weapons are just fun extras.

BI is being a class act by giving us all the best stuff for free. Buying the DLC isn't a donation to BI. The reverse is true. BI giving us the engine updates for free is a donation TO YOU. Absolutely class-act corporate behavior that shows a lot of faith in the company's relationship with customers.

At the same time, BI probably couldn't have justified releasing such an enormous amount of groundbreaking content without the prospect of new revenue. If no one was going to buy the DLC, none of the engine updates would have happened. And the new engine features are worth lots and lots of money in my book. It's a win-win, so quite picking at it. Or just don't buy the DLC. I didn't, but that's more because I have a personal 'no paid DLC, no buying full price games ever' rule.

Woe an Ingrate? Mate its not like I'm a 17 year old screaming at his parents because they bought him a red car when he wanted a blue car. In order to be ungrateful BI would have to have given me something. Which is quite the contrary I bought something with my own money. And just like any other purchase be it a car, computer or even my power bill I expect some sort of value to go along with my purchase, otherwise I either feel ripped off or in this case feel like I've over paid for something to hopefully fund further development in a game I very much enjoy to play, which is the same thing as a donation.

And while there are free platform updates it wasn't like BI were doing it out of the kindness of their heart like some kind benevolent pinata spilling their kind work for the masses.

They included the features to IMPROVE their game to make it a more competitive and desirable product in the eyes of potential customers. BI are no more benevolent for offering free Bipods than Mazda are benevolent for having air conditioning in their new cars.

If it wasn't profitable or in the best interest of the company or game to develop these then BI wouldn't. They would allocate their resources somewhere else. BI is a corporation like all others and the bottom line is the single most important thing.

Make no mistake with the grounds that BI are playing in, the modern day video game industry is cut throat and competitive. They don't do anything out of the kindness of their heart they do it to stay relevant amongst a sea of aggressive and improving content.

They might however do it out of passion and love for the product also as a motivator. They may enjoy their work and be proud of what they achieve but at the end of the day the major motivator for the free platform update is good old fashioned capitalism.

This is why that as a consumer spending my hard earned money (as insignificant in the greater picture $20 is) that I could have just as easily spent elsewhere I ultimately feel a little dissatisfied with my product purchase as do so many others, but I don't mind so much as I want to see the growth of the company and new updates and new titles. Therefore it feels more like a donation to the cause than an actual consumer purchase.

I do not use the term 'donation' in a derogatory sense.

Like you I somewhat care about BI, I enjoy their games be it ArmA 2, ArmA 3 or DayZ I've spent countless hours enjoying their work and it is because of that while I am dissatisfied quantity with the end product I don't regret my purchase. Because at the end of the day I share the same vision of gaming BI seem to have in regards to gaming. I want to support them and see them further develop the game.

Just like I don't really have much use for that red ribbon I bought from the Red Cross but I want to support the charity and see it continue to help the world. This is why buying the DLC kind of feels like a donation. If it were ANY other company be it EA, Rockstar or Blizzard I can say with almost certainty I wouldn't have bought the DLC.

However in saying that, as one of my squad members said it is easy to feel this way because we are spoilt for choice when comes to mods. When you are staring every day at 100s of weapons most of which aren't up to the standards of the DLC update (I make no question about the quality of the content just the quantity) it certainly can feel underwhelming.

However if you look at the vanilla content it's addons are somewhat significant.

But then you get into a hole different topic on who needs who? Do BI need the modding community to make the game more deep and repayable or do the modding community need BI to provide them with a easily customizable platform to ultimately make the game they individually want to play. And who should be grateful for the mods: BI for the community making them or the community for having the opportunity and support to make them.

Either way I'm off topic and this just comes back to straight up consumerism or philanthropy. And my purchase of the Marksman DLC feels more philanthropic than it does a valued product purchase.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Rekkless

[John Kozak 14]

For me, I pay to get the bipods and weapon resting. BI did their awesome work, and that's my tribute to them. Not like a donation, just a fair payment.

The fact that those who did not buy the DLC also get to use engine features is pure goodwill on the studio's side - and it's out of dignity to complain that you didn't get more.

20$ is like 2 to 4 lunches, so WTH? You can't afford it? That's not DLC's fault.

[orcinus 121]

I buy DLC regardless, to keep the cash flowing and the development happening.

I used precisely 0 features from the heli DLC, but was happy to support BI by buying it.

The marksmen DLC has a lot of useful infantry features which I already can't do without. Maybe they should have been introduced when the game was in alpha and supposedly concentrating on infantry mechanics, but I'm glad they're here now.

I just hope that with the DLC released the team can be redeployed to address some other long standing concerns and regressions.

+1

I bought the DLC bundle. I have no interest in the carts, & currently none in the choppers, but I am looking forward to the marksmen features. Above all, I'm supporting the development & refining of the game by buying the DLC. A3 now has some great features added for free like FFV, native suppression, and weapon resting/deployment. BIS is still a minnow in the FPS genre, but it supports its games and modders way beyond what any other games company does.

[bullhorn 18]

ARMA was crap. Then they added things. Then they added more things. How much longer do you think they can add things without having to bring food back home?

This is one heck of an ambitious project with a tiny team working on possibly one of the most complex games of all time. If it means I have to pay $20 every 6 months to keep them going, I prefer to do that rather than see them disappear, or even worse, pay $60 for recycled Call of Duty games.

[BadHabitz 235]

I bought the Supporter Edition when it first became available. I bought a copy of the game for a friend. I bought the DLC Bundle for two of my clannies.

I would have no problem buying the DLC for myself if I needed to. When you buy a game you pay for what's given to you. The free platform updates are not guaranteed, nor should they be expected. BI is not a charity and their continued development has a cost. You think your $50 or whatever you paid will pay for the development prior to your purchase and also for years after? Keep dreaming. If you want new shiny things you need to keep feeding the beast.

If this game had a monthly subscription and an underwhelming DLC I'd say you have a right to be upset. But since the game is free past the initial cost I am extremely grateful that bugs are being addressed in due time, and new features are being developed and come at no cost.

Even if you feel the money is a donation, at least you get something out of it, instead of just giving money away.

[shiftysean 21]

Like it's been said before, all this is to show your support and get a better game at the end of the day (by supporting new developments).

As someone who get's increasingly tired of the bussiness model of currentday games (EA with premium right out the gate, season passes for some others, Atilla total war having 2 dlc packs a week within release, general cash-ins), I however fully support BI because this is the best form to do paid DLC. No one gets left behind on core features, and if you're willing to shell out €20 atm, you get 2 choppers, 7 guns, some camos etc. Nothing which splits the playerbase up.

Gotta say I couldn't believe this guy yesterday on a server I was playing on, claiming the Cyrus was an OP weapon and that the dlc is pure pay2win.... sigh.

This is not the average triple A title dev, and they have a better bussiness model, better involvement with the community, and I fell in love with arma again with all the awesomness in the recent patch. Love the sounds, resting (even against walls <3).

There's no shame in not buying the dlc's if you don't want to, but I just don't understand the discussions, or the wild claims that it is pay2win Oo. BI studios has taken good care of it's playerbase imo, so yes I do think they deserve it.