Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[ProfTournesol 956]

I completely disagree about that "Press key to rest requirement". We already have more than enough keys to press and I can't stand another crtl+shift+esc+enter+(hold E 3,51123sec) to rest combo.

Players should have the option to disable/enable "Key press for resting" within the control menu.

I also disagree about the deployment indicator. The bipods should be animated, and if the player can successfully deploy his weapon, the bipod should simply unfold. That should be enough indicator. But discussing about weapon deployment is a little bit too early yet in my opinion.

We need a resting indicator though, cause we can't "feel" if we're resting or not.

[OMAC 254]

Again, if deployment will require a key press, then resting obviously should be passive only and not require any key to activate, as it is now. We are only seeing half the system now, so it is difficult, if not impossible, to get the feel of the whole thing. But weapon stabilization is so unbelievably vital to fun gameplay, especially after recoil overhaul, that it is worth considering all options at this time.

---------- Post added at 07:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------

we need a resting indicator though, cause we can't "feel" if we're resting or not.

:) yes!!!!!!

[five_seven5-7 56]

Think the passive resting as a Monopod made by the rifle magazine and ative resting as a deployed bipod from action menu for modeled guns with bipod.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

An indicator should come as a visual, or a visualization of feel. This has been what's done with Helicopters DLC (Shaking due to stress) and a few other things. however, pressing a button wouldn't be necessary, because then your pretty much going to what's coming after resting, which is deployment, which does use a key bind if i'm not mistaken. Resting is passive, and simply a reward for tactical positioning, stance, environment usage. An icon combined with existing Stance icon could work great, a small "R" beside what ever stance you are taking. Or better, an option between icon, and visual.

[OMAC 254]

Think the passive resting as a Monopod made by the rifle magazine and ative resting as a deployed bipod from action menu for modeled guns with bipod.

That sounds good. You think deployment will be activated from Action menu? Makes sense, I guess.

[machineabuse 11]

The discussion is in danger of falling into a trap where we begin to see a forced dichotomy between "resting" and "weapon deployment" for the sake of mechanical differentiation. I will agree that as a passive mechanic, "Resting" confers a just bonus to aiming by passive interaction with the environment by way of naturally positioning one'self as a player. BUT...

...before mounted bipods there were marksmen who tied two sticks together to steady their muskets and before that no doubt more than a few crossbowmen came across the idea of placing the ends of their crossbows through the crotch of tree branches.

I too am interested to see is where the line for "weapon deployment" will be drawn. Specifically; I hope that we will not see weapon deployment as the sole realm of weapons with bipods. Should we get a weapon deployment mechanic that is also universally considerate of weapons to environment regardless of type, I too would agree that no indication of weapon resting beyond WYSIWYG is needed.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

To clarify, my point was that Deployment (and pivot-point rotation) on a horizontal surface (i.e., braced on top of a low wall) is planned / splendid-in-progress / should be released to Dev-Branch, etc.

However, Vertical (i.e., braced against the wall at the corner of a building) is not at all certain / guaranteed for a number of technical / schedule reasons. Therefore, the (existing, Dev-Branched) Resting when 'leaning against a wall', may be the fullest extent of ('vertical') weapon stabilisation in Marksmen DLC.

However, currently the scope of this thread is feedback regarding Resting only, so don't let me interfere with that! :)

Best,

RiE

Thanks for the information and insight. I'm going to wait until deployment is available to provide more feedback, because without it, important context is lost. I feel like any feedback made so far has been put into question due to the fact that deployment probably encompasses more aspects than, at least I, have assumed it does.

[roshnak 41]

I too am interested to see is where the line for "weapon deployment" will be drawn. Specifically; I hope that we will not see weapon deployment as the sole realm of weapons with bipods.

Here:

Currently, Weapon Deployment is not planned to be dependent upon attachments; rather, bipods offer additional handling / stability advantages.

[SilentSpike 84]

I hope that we will not see weapon deployment as the sole realm of weapons with bipods

Has already been confirmed by developer RoyaltyinExile above.

Edit: Ninja'd

[KeyCat 131]

Really like where this is going, great work!

/KC

[machineabuse 11]

@Roshnak & SilentSpike

Nice :) Thank you gents. I'm guessing Dslyecxi's input in the mix probably has a lot to do with it too!

[hardsiesta 1]

Awesome addition, love it. Might be just me, but in some situations it feels like the distance could be a little bit tighter.

Now that everyone's encouraged to hug the walls, it would be appropriate to make a priority of fixing the ridiculously easy ability to look through walls and objects, though. It was mostly fixed in DayZ SA last summer already.

[Mug Runcher 12]

Now that everyone's encouraged to hug the walls, it would be appropriate to make a priority of fixing the ridiculously easy ability to look through walls and objects, though. It was mostly fixed in DayZ SA last summer already.

Also, the houses that have spots where you seemingly get "caught up" of "fall through" the seam between the wall and the floor. There's a few of the shop models where I can see this being a hassle when resting a weapon.

[Gutsnav 13]

Something that myself and others have noticed is that the weapon resting stabilizes the weapon much too quick. Take for example when you are in cover behind a sandbag or half wall. Currently you can pop up and in about 1 second be firing highly accurate shots over the wall. This is a bit strange. I certainly can't do this with such speed, and in a tense combat situation I don't think normal people can. This goes for vertical walls as well. It should take at least 2 seconds to rest the weapon (maybe 1.5, I don't know exactly) and there should be some sway or "weapon inertia" sight misalignment to simulate having to aim correctly. It shouldn't be too bad but you shouldn't be able to pop up and shoot with high accuracy immediately when the weapon is over an obstacle. Otherwise it's looking great, thanks for your hard work! :D

[chortles 263]

One encouraging sign about this feature's implementation is that the main feedback requests/critiques are about specific situations (i.e. perhaps tweaking values used in the algorithm to benefit a few specific locations, or the rules for vertical resting specifically) or about "rested status" indicator feedback... from which I infer that the basic idea of a "real-time algorithmic" approach (and indeed, the how of the resting implementation) has basically got nigh-universal acceptance here?

[roshnak 41]

Something that myself and others have noticed is that the weapon resting stabilizes the weapon much too quick. Take for example when you are in cover behind a sandbag or half wall. Currently you can pop up and in about 1 second be firing highly accurate shots over the wall. This is a bit strange. I certainly can't do this with such speed, and in a tense combat situation I don't think normal people can. This goes for vertical walls as well. It should take at least 2 seconds to rest the weapon (maybe 1.5, I don't know exactly) and there should be some sway or "weapon inertia" sight misalignment to simulate having to aim correctly. It shouldn't be too bad but you shouldn't be able to pop up and shoot with high accuracy immediately when the weapon is over an obstacle. Otherwise it's looking great, thanks for your hard work! :D

As far as I can tell, this actually doesn't have anything to do with the weapon resting speed. The problem seems to be that your weapon actually never stops being rested when you duck behind cover like that. It's rested on the vertical surface of the wall. You can test this by walking up to any wall and basically burying the muzzle of your gun in it. Your weapon will be rested. Actually, no part of your gun or body even has to be touching the wall for this to work.

Edited February 26, 2015 by roshnak

[hardsiesta 1]

As far as I can tell, this actually doesn't have anything to do with the weapon resting speed. The problem seems to be that your weapon actually never stops being rested when you duck behind cover like that. It's rested on the vertical surface of the wall. You can test this by walking up to any wall and basically burying the muzzle of your gun in it. Your weapon will be rested. Actually, no part of your gun or body even has to be touching the wall for this to work.

The range along the barrel really is too liberal at the moment, and stance adjustments should probably reset the resting.

Might be entirely situational, and with aiming angle in mind, up-down seems to forgive about 2 adjustments. 1 would probably be close enough, but 2 seems too much.

Sideways seems alright, as it seems to have been made to fit the character's right side almost touching (collide, not visually) a parallel wall, but I'd try making it tighter even if it meant having to lean the right side to the parallel wall, to get some of the padding off when behind an object. Although every centimeter "exploited" there also means unnecessary exposure in that case.

I'm saying this based on testing only, not sure these ideas wouldn't make it too impractical in actual game or something.

[digitalgeo 21]

This post concerns the feedback during resting state.

Currently there is no way to know when your weapon is rested, apart from the reduced sway.

Most people have suggested to display an icon when rested. While this is a simple, obvious solution, I am nay for the icon idea. It's kinda dull.

It would be more satisfying to see the weapon raise up on the players screen, upon entering rest, to give an impression that the weapon is being lifted over the object. And when the player moves away, the weapon lowers to its original position. The actual weapon itself does not move, but moving the players view can make it seem like it's moved. However, this only seems effective in first person.

Imagine this.

The player has his weapon raised (& assumed in first person)

Next he approaches a barrier, enters rested state.

As he enters rested state, the weapon (on his screen) rises to give impression that he's lifting it over the fence.

The soldier leaves the fence and rested state.

Now his weapon is lowers on his screen.

This approach would be more authentic than an icon.

[Jackal326 1181]

This approach would be more authentic than an icon.

And almost impossible to implement given the animation system employed in the game.

[twisted 128]

The range along the barrel really is too liberal at the moment, and stance adjustments should probably reset the resting.

Might be entirely situational, and with aiming angle in mind, up-down seems to forgive about 2 adjustments. 1 would probably be close enough, but 2 seems too much.

Sideways seems alright, as it seems to have been made to fit the character's right side almost touching (collide, not visually) a parallel wall, but I'd try making it tighter even if it meant having to lean the right side to the parallel wall, to get some of the padding off when behind an object. Although every centimeter "exploited" there also means unnecessary exposure in that case.

I'm saying this based on testing only, not sure these ideas wouldn't make it too impractical in actual game or something.

that's been one of my issues, it feels more like forcefield than resting. but BIS has acknowledged that kind of feedback so i hope it is tighted up a bit. and i hope deployment (not bipods which is a more dvanced part of deployment ) also works on verticl edges like doorways . But will have to wair and see it but this is BIS time to do it right as its the most wanted feature and i must say, right now it seems off to a freaking good start.

[digitalgeo 21]

And almost impossible to implement given the animation system employed in the game.

I also included this in my post :

The actual weapon itself does not move, but moving the players view can make it seem like it's moved. However, this only seems effective in first person.

No new animations required. I'm assuming the dev can manipulate the players camera/view to give the impression that the weapon moved.

[enex 11]

I like that idea more then HUD indicators.

[Jackal326 1181]

I also included this in my post :

No new animations required. I'm assuming the dev can manipulate the players camera/view to give the impression that the weapon moved.

That wouldn't so much give the impression that the weapon moved, more like your eyes have dropped or you've had a stroke.

[digitalgeo 21]

More like your eyes have dropped or you've had a stroke.

Lol

I'll script up the concept in editor and see if it's satisfying. I'll share here if I can

[bad benson 1733]

That wouldn't so much give the impression that the weapon moved, more like your eyes have dropped or you've had a stroke.

isn't that how inertia is done though? afaik it's just a camera offset. seems to work fine. should be enough, if it's just a subtle shift. i'd also like it more than an icon.