Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[solzenicyn 129]

Hi there,

in the recent update of development branch you will find the new version of announced (http://dev.arma3.com/sitrep-00030) fatigue mechanics improvement which we prepared for you. As the design of such an important feature is inevitably burdened by many subjective feelings and opinions we decided to inform and discuss it's implementation with you. Therefore I would like to gladly ask you for a valuable, constructive and civilized feedback upon the issue. Hopefully, it will help me a lot to tune that feature according to your sound objections, good suggestions and overall gameplay feelings.

So, this update will affects three main issues:

1) Animation slowdown. The more you are fatigued, the more sluggish and cumbersome all your movement becomes. Simple as that. However, not every animation could be slowed down by the same degree without odd side effects. Thus it's quite tricky to set up the values for every respective animation correctly. If you find out some unexpected motion that goes simply "too slow", please, let me know. Also I would like to hear from you if the current overall slowing isn't too much, or if you generally feel that it could be even more severe. As I said, it's very subjective issue and many different opinions will arise for sure.

2) Fatigue gain from inventory load. The more you are loaded, the sooner you get exhausted by doing exhaustive actions. I've made the progress of fatigue gain from inventory load much steeper to force you to consider your carried equipment with greater care. Let me know if it's not too punitive, or, if you feel that it could be even more severe.

3) Weapon sway. Believe it or not, weapon sway behavior is inevitably connected to fatigue. Thus the recent changes will certainly have an impact on it. We wish to improve the sway mechanics even further, so every feedback regarding this issue, regardless if it's just personal opinion or shooting range testing video, will be also much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and stay tuned.

[dmarkwick 261]

Wow, nice one, I wondered about this from reading the development report today.

I think #2 will be welcomed by most people, excessive loadouts are often commented on.

[13islucky 10]

Just tried this. Works amazing, thank you.

[roberthammer 582]

Yes was about time to check and tweak these fatigue issues

most of them is the heavy carry weight , which makes you carry over 100kg stuff without any penalty

[msy 22]

Can AI be affected too?

[DancZer 65]

The weapon reloading is connected to the fatigue?

[CaptainObvious 95]

Overall looking very good so far, no more One man antitank terminators

Maybe standing up from prone with heavy gear should be slowed down when fatigued, I know it's hard as a mofo IRL, would this be possible?

Edit: Going prone from sprint while fatigued seems to be slowed down, looks odd, can anyone confirm?

Edit2: Going prone from sprint seems to be slowed down no matter what.

The weapon reloading is connected to the fatigue?

Not that I noticed, I also don't know if I'd even want it to, it might seem odd to do that in slow-mo

Edited November 8, 2013 by CaptainObvious

[byku 13]

Tested it... awesome! I love how you slow down when fatigued a lot, but i can already see how many people will say that now they can't run a lot and it sucks etc.

Edit: Although... i suppose simple jogging is exhausting a bit too much.(testing now)

After 600-700m i see blackening of the screen... hmm tested light rifleman.

Naked guy: 2km jogging and still able to sprint, nice.

Missile specialist: 300-400 meters, blackening of the screen.

Indeed jogging slows down after a while.

I love what you did! ^^

Maybe jogging without total exhaustion should be possible for a little bit longer.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Byku

[-Coulum- 35]

Cant test now but I am looking forward to doing it tonight. Thanks for including us devs!

[Brisse 78]

Went into editor, placed NATO rifleman on stratis and ran around the place. Feels really good. Then I dropped everything except uniform and sprinted as far as I could. I was almost thinking "this guy is super fit" but then he stopped sprinting so I think it's perfect. The difference between equipped and unequipped was big and very noticable, and thats the way it should be. Good work! :)

Going to try a heavier loadout now...

Edit: Okay, so I have tried the missile specialist now. Wow that guy gets tired fast. Thats a good thing but maybe we should allow him to sprint just a little bit more. Another thing I noticed is that going from prone to standing while tired was too fast. A tired guy with a heavy loadout will have problems to go from prone to standing so it should take more time. So to wrap it up: Sprint just a little bit longer, but make the transition from prone to standing slower.

By the way, I'm an ex soldier, I think I know how the fatigue system should work. A lot of people without such experience really don't understand how much that extra weight slows you down. The soldiers with the heaviest loadouts should be barely combat effective, just like real life.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Brisse

[x3kj 1247]

Jogging should be possible for longer duration, especially for lower encumbrance. I don't like to play armchair soldiers when sitting in my armchair :P

Sprinting is a different matter... i think this is ok atm

Haven't tested that specifically, but maybe the regeneration could be nonlinear? So if you hit maximum fatigue state it takes longer to regenerate back to medium fatigue state, then from medium to low/no fatigue state.

That means, it's more economic if you make short stops after medium fatigue level is reached (jogging for some distance) , then going to maximum fatigue and making a longer break.

Personally i would like to have some kind of indicator how much reserves i have left, because if i'm in the field myself i know how fast i can go at the given speed without collapsing. Just because you are breathing heavily doesnt mean you are going to collapse if you jog 100 more meters in RL. If you sprint and then Jog slowly your breath can regenerate as well. In Arma i have the feeling that jogging can not reduce fatigue at all.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Fennek

[St. Jimmy 272]

Light gear end should probably be toned down to encourage that kind of gear more. Normal Rifleman or pilot gets exhausted too early. But I like how slow Full gear LMG guy with Titan Launcher with 4 rockets and all the stuff is slow after 5m, it could be even more punitive :D

[danil-ch 165]

1)Great. Now, finally it makes sense to stop and rest.

3)Weapon sway is cute good. Although hold breath is too damn effective.

[.kju 3244]

1) Please replace/improve the annoying breathing sound: (to come - FT currently offline)

2) New scripting command to adjust the recovery (factor to negative duty values for anims) - ie twice as fast recovery

3) New scripting command to adjust the exhaustion (factor to positive duty values for anims) - ie half as much exhausion

Rationale: For fast pvp game modes like CTF, CQB, DM a different gameplay system is needed vs large scale, slow movement systems.

Right now one can just disable fatigue completely which is not desirable either.

[Brisse 78]

;2553058']1) Please replace/improve the annoying breathing sound: (to come - FT currently offline)

I don't find them annoying. It's a good (and authentic) way for the game to indicate fatigue level.

[Fushko 59]

All these changes look great, looking forward to more. I'm midly concerned about AI though, how much will it be affected from sway? Will they still be super accurate even when heavily fatigued?

[CaptainObvious 95]

;2553058']1) Please replace/improve the annoying breathing sound: (to come - FT currently offline)

Is it just me or are those sounds tweaked, I find them way less annoying compared to few weeks back, i.e. way less those gasping and swallowing sounds and more fast heavy breathing.

[pettka 694]

Is it just me or are those sounds tweaked, I find them way less annoying compared to few weeks back, i.e. way less those gasping and swallowing sounds and more fast heavy breathing.

You are right, they have been tweaked just after the release of Survive. You can actually check the old ones in default branch until the update :icon_twisted:

[St. Jimmy 272]

;2553058']1) Please replace/improve the annoying breathing sound: (to come - FT currently offline)

I think it's fine now. The old sound was awful but this new one I like and you don't sound like a whiny guy running 1km for the first time.

;2553058']Rationale: For fast pvp game modes like CTF' date=' CQB, DM a different gameplay system is needed vs large scale, slow movement systems.

[/quote']

This could be achieved that lighter gear gets toned down (riflleman exhaustion from 600m->1km) that's IMO needed now. For fast PvP the areas are already quite small and you don't need to be super full geared? You can have a realistic fatigue in those modes also and we got other games to please full arcade.

;2553058']Right now one can just disable fatigue completely which is not desirable either.

There are now more fatigue effects than weapon sway and blur... So this isn't true now.

/Oh I probably understood wrong what you meant with the last one.

Edited November 8, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[.kju 3244]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/enableFatigue

[progamer 14]

I don't find them annoying. It's a good (and authentic) way for the game to indicate fatigue level.

Some of the times the sounds would make sense. But most of the time they sound like just a gameplay thing and not very realistic.

---------- Post added at 16:48 ---------- Previous post was at 16:47 ----------

;2553078']http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/enableFatigue

Why not just have commands to remove certain aspects of the fatigue?

[CaptainObvious 95]

You are right, they have been tweaked just after the release of Survive. You can actually check the old ones in default branch until the update :icon_twisted:

Excellent, good job! :dance1:

[progamer 14]

You are right, they have been tweaked just after the release of Survive. You can actually check the old ones in default branch until the update :icon_twisted:

The improvements are nice! :)

[metalcraze 290]

So what has changed exactly?

Animations got slowed down and it looks like the soldier is running in slo-mo but the running speed hasn't changed?

And loadouts are still extreme

Basically the only difference is visual?

Yes I'm aware that the "fatigued" speed is ~15% or so slower. But it makes zero difference. It's running X meters in 11 seconds instead of 10. And this change was there for a month or so and it's not enough.

Let me know if it's not too punitive, or, if you feel that it could be even more severe.

It's not severe enough. The max running speed should be limited based on load. So if a soldier puts on 60 kgs the fatigued running speed should not exceed the speed of combat pace.

I don't find them annoying. It's a good (and authentic) way for the game to indicate fatigue level.

The good and authentic way is to make the soldier run at a slower speed, not animate him slower while keeping the speed unchanged.

Edited November 8, 2013 by metalcraze

[dnk 13]

One big suggestion: make the tooltip popup for equipment/weapons also include weight. If you're going to make it this important, we should be able to quantifiably know how heavy a given piece of equipment is. Currently, there's that quite elegant lower bar oranging thing, but it's not terribly precise for smaller things like magazines, and I can't find the .bin that holds the weight info.

Anywho:

Awesome awesome awesome. I was just about to complain in another thread about the weak effects of fatigue, and how it should (A) have a stronger stamina impact based on weight, (B) slowdown, and © more weapon sway, and then I come here and bam! You guys did it already.

Can't wait for this to hit an official update.

My suggestion (note I don't do dev branch anymore). Also max weight is now 3/4 of current main branch (in my table):

Increase in Fatigue

[TABLE=width: 500]

[TR]

[TD]Speed[/TD]

[TD]1/4 weight[/TD]

[TD]1/2 weight[/TD]

[TD]3/4 weight[/TD]

[TD]full weight[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Walk[/TD]

[TD]-0.75/sec[/TD]

[TD]-0.5/sec[/TD]

[TD]-0.3/sec[/TD]

[TD]0/sec[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Jog[/TD]

[TD]-0.25/sec[/TD]

[TD]0/sec[/TD]

[TD]+0.25/sec[/TD]

[TD]+0.75/sec[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Run[/TD]

[TD]+0.2/sec[/TD]

[TD]+0.5/sec[/TD]

[TD]+1.25/sec[/TD]

[TD]+1.75/sec[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Sprint[/TD]

[TD]+1.0/sec[/TD]

[TD]+2.0/sec[/TD]

[TD]+3.5/sec[/TD]

[TD]+5.0/sec[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Edited November 8, 2013 by DNK