Is the game dumbed down?

[katipo66 94]

It's finding a feature you don't like and declaring that the game is flawed because of it. It is rather dreary.

I think its less about that and more about this...

I don't know if I want the game because of DayZ. It's a mod bringing horrible people to the arma community. It's better without it.

...It's scary how casual gamers are making demands like if they had a right to.

So this is probably more about a feeling of abandonment and a lot of despise to new/casual players from which im guessing are to blame for changing arma to cod... anyone trying to defend the game are lumped in the fanboystrawman group.

I dont think it matters if BIS introduced the most realistic medical system ever for a game, it wont matter because somewhere on some server some casual guy will be running around with 30 grenades in his pack :D

[bad benson 1733]

still lots of pages, and nothing constructive, one fraction keeps saying: FAK iz BAAD, arma 3 sux just because of that! Second fraction is asying: NOO! Arma 3 rules, it can't suck just because of FAKs

and there is the misconception. it's just you thinking you are battling against people who hate the game just for the FAKs which is nonsense. i will never understand why people like you have to counter post all the fckn time. it just makes no sense. you are right that this drifted off into nonsense again but you should also ask yourself why and who might be responsible. you are after all the one telling people that it's not dumbed down, eventhough you know it is. while your real intention and wrong perception of things is clear when looking at your signature and your very last post. kind of ironic.

as long as there are people posting empty posts that straight out take everything in the game as 100% optimal just to disagree, there will be these idiotic discussions. you won't convince people who just hate the game or like to hate on it. they just do. and they'll jump on every opportunity to hate on it. what your doing though is treating everyone the same and getting into discussins with people that have real points while your point is "enter signature text here". so all you do is give haters fuel with your one sided badly backed up view and at the same time really annoy veterans of the series with your hollow points against their valid criticism. i don't find that more constructive than hating on the game to be honest.

EDIT: -Coulum- pretty much nailed it in his second last post. if you are fine with roleplaying then fine. no one is arguing against that. but immersion, for a lot of people, doesn't stem from imagining things that aren't there.

this reminds me of certain people in the AI thread some time ago right before the age old bug, that AI will auto turn towards you like robots after a team member gets shot, was fixed. some people said. "well i'll personally just think to myself the AI sees the blood from the impact wound of their team mate and thus knows automatically in which direction the shooter is". it's a perfect example of that kind of reasoning. just accepting something that is not high on your personal list of priorities and finding weird reasoning to try to force your own priorities on others. once the robotic turning issue was fixed everyone was happy btw...

Edited September 20, 2013 by Bad Benson

[NeuroFunker 11]

ive heard some so to say "veterans", did the same bitching, when arma 2 came out, as they right now do. So i guess this people will never change, and probably they are living in their "dream world" where arma is a hardcore military simulator, where you fall onto the ground, just by running 100 meters, laying injured on the ground for half a hour, and waiting for medic, and spining 180 degrees a turtle speeds on the ground.

And for 100th time - arma HAD to be simplephiled in some ways, to make it more accesible for newcomers, and more casual players. But there is no way, i can call arma 3 dumbed down, after playing for many years arma 2 and with ACE 2 especially. Just get the hell out of your damn box, and look around. Looking for hardcore miltary simulator? Get VBS2. Want to have fun in military sandbox game with "realistic" feeling, play arma 3. Don't like both of them - stay with arma 2.

But stop for gods sake whining!!!

Just think about, you want to have realism in a game, which based in near future, and includes fictional or prototypes of weapons/vehicles, which is called a "sandbox". Doesn't it ring a bell for you? Keep fghting the windmills then!

Edited September 20, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[bad benson 1733]

ive heard some so to say "veterans", did the same bitching, when arma 2 came out

oh yea. i remember arma 2 release. it was perfect. nothing to complain...

So i guess this people will never change, and probably they are living in their "dream world" where arma is a hardcore military simulator, where you fall onto the ground, just by running 100 meters, laying injured on the ground for half a hour, and waiting for medic, and spining 180 degrees a turtle speeds on the ground.

as i said. you have zero points. there's no way of curing your weird disorder. some people will just ignore what others say and go on repeating themselves...

And for 100th time - arma HAD to be simplephiled in some ways, to make it more accesible for newcomers

it's sad when you realize that a person you are talking to thinks his personal view is the truth and nothing but the truth. no point in talking to some people.

after playing for many years arma 2 and with ACE 2 especially. Just get the hell out of your damn box, and look around. Looking for hardcore miltary simulator? Get VBS2.

i personally hate ACE. i never used it. and i would never waste my money on VBS. again. you sir have some weird kind of glasses on and are incapable of taking other people's views as valid. which is kind of offending to be honest. i bet you didn't read one of my posts. not even the ones showing you that non of it is about realism. but yea go on. i'm done here. you are just a lazy troll. not worth dealing with.

[NeuroFunker 11]

oh yea. i remember arma 2 release. it was perfect. nothing to complain...

as i said. you have zero points. there's no way of curing your weird disorder. some people will just ignore what others say and go on repeating themselves...

it's sad when you realize that a person you are talking to thinks his personal view is the truth and nothing but the truth. no point in talking to some people.

i personally hate ACE. i never used it. and i would never waste my money on VBS. again. you sir have some weird kind of glasses on and are incapable of taking other people's views as valid. which is kind of offending to be honest. i bet you didn't read one of my posts. not even the ones showing you that non of it is about realism. but yea go on. i'm done here. you are just a lazy troll. not worth dealing with.

lol, but it's you who have weird glasses. Where all the people moan about faks not being realistic, about 180 spins being not realistic, about carrying 50 mags, or heavy weapons at same time is not realistic, and you say, nobody ever talks about realism here?

Let us get deeper into realism then.

Any soldier, can use any weapon, shoot granade launchers, shoot sniper rifle at 1k+ distances, then switch to rpg, and with same success hit targets at quite long diistances, then place satchels and mines.

But lets get further about realism.

Any soldier, can use any vehicle. If it's tank, helicopter, jet or quadbike. When driving a quad, doesn't require special study. But being able to drive and shoot a tank, and fly a jet, what kind of hyper talnted and intellectual rambo soldiers have we got? But fuck this, we have 75% healing faks, fast spining soldiers, who can carry 50 mags, damn that is somewhat tragic!

[-Coulum- 35]

And for 100th time - arma HAD to be simplephiled in some ways, to make it more accesible for newcomers, and more casual players.

Isn't this exactly the kind of dumbing down we are arguing about. The degree is small but arma 3 is in some aspects dumbed down compared to arma 2. In other aspects its not. But otherall the game as a whole is a bit "dumber".

This doesn't even necessarily have to be a bad thing (to me it is to you it obviously isn't - that is up to preference). But arguing that the game is just as complex as it was in arma 2 doesn't make sense to me - because it simply isn't. And I know full well that arma 2 really wasn't all that complex in the first place. But that doesn't mean that it can't be simplified more. And it has been. I have actually tried to refrain from complaining to much about it (metalcraze already does the job for me:)) but I am not going to deny the facts.

Let us get deeper into realism then.

Any soldier, can use any weapon, shoot granade launchers, shoot sniper rifle at 1k+ distances, then switch to rpg, and with same success hit targets at quite long diistances, then place satchels and mines.

But lets get further about realism.

Any soldier, can use any vehicle. If it's tank, helicopter, jet or quadbike. When driving a quad, doesn't require special study. But being able to drive and shoot a tank, and fly a jet, what kind of hyper talnted and intellectual rambo soldiers have we got? But fuck this, we have 75% healing faks, fast spining soldiers, who can carry 50 mags, damn that is somewhat tragic!

Pretty sure everything on your list has been complained about by the "realism crowd". People have just come to accept that arma can't be a master of everything - it has always lacked these things and probably always will. The reason people are mad about FAK's and turn speed is because in arma 2 they were "more" realistic. We have downgraded in terms of complexity.

[Harbinger2456 10]

So i guess this people will never change, and probably they are living in their "dream world" where arma is a hardcore military simulator, where you fall onto the ground, just by running 100 meters, laying injured on the ground for half a hour, and waiting for medic, and spining 180 degrees a turtle speeds on the ground.

Lol, you could have just said ACE.

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

Get VBS2.

Give me a thousand bucks.:rolleyes:

[froggyluv 2136]

and there is the misconception. it's just you thinking you are battling against people who hate the game just for the FAKs which is nonsense. i will never understand why people like you have to counter post all the fckn time. it just makes no sense. you are right that this drifted off into nonsense again but you should also ask yourself why and who might be responsible. you are after all the one telling people that it's not dumbed down, eventhough you know it is. while your real intention and wrong perception of things is clear when looking at your signature and your very last post. kind of ironic.

as long as there are people posting empty posts that straight out take everything in the game as 100% optimal just to disagree, there will be these idiotic discussions. you won't convince people who just hate the game or like to hate on it. they just do. and they'll jump on every opportunity to hate on it. what your doing though is treating everyone the same and getting into discussins with people that have real points while your point is "enter signature text here". so all you do is give haters fuel with your one sided badly backed up view and at the same time really annoy veterans of the series with your hollow points against their valid criticism. i don't find that more constructive than hating on the game to be honest.

.

Well tone is a big reason I think people jump up and feel the need to argue with "complainers". I actually agree with most to all of the "complainers" points but when every one of certain people posts ends with parting shots like "Way to fuck up again BI", "Time to step aside and let the big boys (modders) finish your job for you again" -kinda shit, makes me wanna slap the shit outta someone. Again, I agree with all the FAK'ed up nonsense, the need for more inertia and realistic fatiguing, but I vote by sayin it once and then use the feedback tracker.

[Smurf 12]

Just to get things clear, ALL the dumbing down is about the FAKs and turning?

Seriously, I just skip those wall of text that seems to be the same thing over and over again.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Just to get things clear, ALL the dumbing down is about the FAKs and turning?

Seriously, I just skip those wall of text that seems to be the same thing over and over again.

lol, it is, look at my previous post, they want the game realistic as possible, complain about really small things, when there are much bigger there, which they do ignore for a reason.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

Well tone is a big reason I think people jump up and feel the need to argue with "complainers". I actually agree with most to all of the "complainers" points but when every one of certain people posts ends with parting shots like "Way to fuck up again BI", "Time to step aside and let the big boys (modders) finish your job for you again" -kinda shit, makes me wanna slap the shit outta someone. Again, I agree with all the FAK'ed up nonsense, the need for more inertia and realistic fatiguing, but I vote by sayin it once and then use the feedback tracker.

i think, your position is not much wrong. You don't want to be one of those, who complain, but neither on those, who step against the complainers. I say, neither one of us is wrong, or we both are right at certain things.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think carrying 60 grenades is pretty unrealistic. Have you ever heard of something like that ? Apart from the weight and volume (which might fit into a large backpack), no one in his right mind would carry that many explosives around.

I haven't heard of someone doing that, and yes it might be the actions of a lunatic, but that doesn't make it "unrealistc" as in, it cannot be done.

No. The good part about the Arma series was always the fact that dead enemies do not leave random "loot drops" like in other games. If you kill an opponent, you can nick hist stuff. All of it. So in essence, if you put enemies on the map, these are walking ammo boxes. It gets worse if you place a vehicle, you actually need to make sure you clear the cargo of all of them, or the problem is magnified ten fold.

It doesn't matter whether you restrict the players initial gear, he can always acquire more. And the fact that he will be able to carry it all creates an imbalance. He doesn't even need to consider what to take. he just picks up everything he comes by.

So in essence, the current loadout limits combined with the FAKs create one-man armies. Arma was never about those, and the authenticity of such one-man armies is not only doubtful, but totally out of the window.

So yeah, the game IS dumbed down.

Ah I see, the fear is that on a MP game, some one might decide to go body-hopping and collect a ridiculous amount of stuff? This activity seems unlikely to me, and in any case represents the smallest part of online gaming problems. Another aspect of ArmA that is always trotted out, and one that I agree with, is the quality of the people you play with. As in friends, groups, clans etc.

---------- Post added at 19:36 ---------- Previous post was at 19:14 ----------

Good point, this thread is becoming ridiculous like the DR thread, it's at the seeping puss stage where every page is a carbon copy of the other.. those who are strawmen, fanboys and elitists or whatever should just play the game and stay away from this thread so that those concerned can discuss how the game is dumbed down and is no more than cod on big map.

Hmm, so the thread only requires "yes" votes :)

sorry but what do you even mean by all that? you can't do the things you could do in arma 2, yes? there's nothing implied here. it's a simple "hey it was good, it was fun, why did you remove it? could you please consider readding it? could you maybe consider the following improvements?" there is no implication. it's all in your head.

i really don't get why some people have the urge to protect BI from any kind of criticism. it's so pointless. if i would have made an insulting thread then yea sure. but i didn't. i'm a total fanboy and veteran of the series. all i'm doing is pointing out stuffs. you on the other hand are reading bad intentions into that and have, like others, the urge to find reasoning to make that stuff look like it's unreasonable. why? did you ever ask yourself about the real motives behind posts like that? all that twisting of words. all it does is divide people into camps they don't even belong to just because you can't take constructive criticism that isn't even directed at you but at BI.

i still fail to see the point. sorry. all i see you doing is trying to force your opinion on others by using weird reasoning. no offense. i just don't get the point. if you are fine with every detail then fine. i din't whine neither did i accuse BI of anything. and i certainly don't tell you how wrong you are by liking what you like.

EDIT: i agree there might be some implication in the title of this thread taken just on its own that i don't see because i'm not a native speaker. but i think some parts of the past pages made clear where people stand and why, so no need to just focus on that to make a point.

I'm not fine with everything no, I too would like to see the improved medical system. I too would like to see FAKs stop bleeding only, and still require the ministrations of a medic. I believe there is much room for improvement, but then, like almost any area, that's usually the case :)

I disagree with you here. When a game is dumbed down, imo, it means it requires less thinking to be successful.

If you are looking at things from a purely competitive POV, you not using FAKs or limiting your turn speed or gear is actually the dumb action - you are not taking advantage of all your tools.

Ah but theres the thing. On competive/gameplay side of things, its not a dumb action. Its taking advantage of a dumb system - which is smart if you want to win.

I understand not everybody plays for competition, me included, but I find that competition and challenge (of the thinking sort) is important for immersion as well.

So when the challenge doesn't really require that much thinking because features are dumbed down, it ruins my immersion. Maybe others don't suffer from this.

Many players want to be forced to be challenged because they find it fun to "solve" the game using every means avaialble to them. If the game gives these players easy/dumb ways of succeeding, the lack of fulfilling/immersive/thoughtful/etc. gameplay is the games fault, not the players imo. Roleplaying is not a satisfying option for these players, even if it is for you.

All that being said I must say that some of these problems aren't quite as big as they are made out to be. For example I cannot and have never seen someone 360 headshot someone in arma - maybe its because of poor fps, but I still find that its pretty hard to do. On the other hand FAKs and gear are exploited on a regular basis - yes I know missions can do this and that, but I think its best we stick to what is possible in a vanilla mission. We're judging the game (of which FAKs and encumbrance system are apart of), not other people's or our own variations of the game, if that makes any sense.

I can see the argument here. So we're talking in terms of competitive gameplay, and someopne who does not overdo the loadout stuff might have a disadvantage over someone who does do the overloaded loadout stuff. Fair enough. That's a fairly small part of the game though. And of course the game design (by implication) is one of those "free weapons & ammo" in the form of crates at the beginning of the game. Which is already a departure from "realistic". Either that, or you're worried about people body-hopping from corpse to corpse collecting stuff. I suspect that's an even smaller problem myself.

Sadly this perspective seems to elude BIS defense squad for some reason.

"Don't do stupid stuff yourself, roleplay like there are actually limits" - well if I won't do stupid stuff everybody else still will and I will be at a disadvantage and it will be my fault only versus BIS fault for allowing it in the first place.

This is one of my observation: that people are always worried about what someone else might do. I've never seen anyone go body hopping. I've never seen anyone spin 180 prone to their advantage. And as for FAKs, I don't have any way to tell if someone is loaded up with them unless I too visit every body I see, so I got no way to monitor that.

And this doesn't mean PvP only. Game rules are dumbed down, people make use of them because this is not any cheating for which you can get banned, it's all legit in ArmA3 now. But I should be inferior to everybody else on the server just so I can close my eyes and repeat "there's no dumbing down it's all a mirage" mantra? What DMarkwick suggests is that I should be hitting walk combo every time I'm shot in the leg and switching to jog only after I'm healed exclusively by a medic. Funny,

I regularly get injured to the point of not being able to run. Are you sure you're not exaggerating that point again? :)

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:36 ----------

Just to get things clear, ALL the dumbing down is about the FAKs and turning?

Seriously, I just skip those wall of text that seems to be the same thing over and over again.

I said this a few pages back: simply remove FAKs from your missions and about a third of all complaints go away :D

As for turning, well, I can only say this: I set my turning speed (mouse sensitivity) to give me what I judge as a reasonable turning speed. I don't like overly sensitive turning so I don't have it very high. This is one reason I don't feel the game is dumbed down in that regard, because I don't deliberately set stuff high like that, and I don't believe there's much advantage to being able to turn like that. You still need situational awareness, so prone-spinning headshot guys just don't exist as far as I've seen.

[Phantom Six 25]

lol, it is, look at my previous post, they want the game realistic as possible, complain about really small things, when there are much bigger there, which they do ignore for a reason.

Really small things? SMALL THINGS?!! These things can alter the way the game can be played. With FAKs, you won't rely on the medic as much, you won't pull your partner away from danger. The good old epic feelings are gone. How about I go pack my ramboing gear and just go 1 man army since I won't need an extra marksman, or AT soldier on my team when I can be an all in one soldier.

Before you talk about even bigger things, stop with the pulling of BIGGER THINGS out of your behind when you never specified, WHAT BIGGER THINGS?!!

My question for you is, WHAT BIGGER THINGS?!! I want proof, and concrete evidence. You never specified what the bigger things are, so I want to hear from you, what bigger things needs fixing that are more important.

If its 3D editor, bipods (when you need an addon yet it shouldn't be necessary by now since most games including mainstream games such as BF3 even have it), weapon resting, and such, then I'll agree to that, but other than that. What are the bigger things....

[bad benson 1733]

lol, but it's you who have weird glasses. Where all the people moan about faks not being realistic, about 180 spins being not realistic, about carrying 50 mags, or heavy weapons at same time is not realistic, and you say, nobody ever talks about realism here?

sorry but you are not getting what i'm saying. i never said no one was talking about realism. it's not my fault that you use the same shitty premade arguments in any situation for every person. you just need to learn to distinguish between several people and not think in "factions" as you put it. you telling me to get ACE just proves that you didn't read any of my posts or are just lacking the "resources" to understand what i'm saying (no offense).

i will put it shortly again so maybe it'll sink in this time: i want inbuilt dragging, carrying and reviving (yes unrealistic reviving) because it enriches gameplay. and maybe more that builds on that (arma 2) instead of cutting from it. and i want FAKs to be what makes sense. bleed stoppers combined with bleeding that actually creates a need for that. not because it's more realistic but because of the gameplay implications. yes dayZ "medical system" is much better. not because it's realistic to heal yourself with meat but because of the way it influences how people play. rules of the gameworld (not only for PvP). it's funny how actually it is you who uses realism as a cheap argument.

Any soldier, can use any vehicle. If it's tank, helicopter, jet or quadbike. When driving a quad, doesn't require special study.

so yea anything is possible since the whole game has "realism flaws". i personally would've been fine with aliens as opponents (genuinely). all i want is an immersive challenging game.

there are many other things i said but it's pointless repeating them just for you. conclusion: you just don't understand. but that's ok. it's not that important. it's just baffling how much you treat everyone the same. just saying.

I'm not fine with everything no, I too would like to see the improved medical system. I too would like to see FAKs stop bleeding only, and still require the ministrations of a medic. I believe there is much room for improvement, but then, like almost any area, that's usually the case

i'm glad to hear that. i understand the defensive reflexes against trolls who create insulting threads but the BI defense squad really needs to work on its aim. too much collateral damage :p

Again, I agree with all the FAK'ed up nonsense, the need for more inertia and realistic fatiguing, but I vote by sayin it once and then use the feedback tracker.

well some people should make their own forums then, where they can make it forbidden to voice criticism. no one is forced to read those posts. not talking about assholes who just are annoying and insulting. but if you try to come up with reasoning against the valid criticism of some people you better be ready to defend it well.

you were not for realism

i'm not against realism. but i'll try to keep it more black and white next time so everyone will have an easy time digesting it...

just a little sidenote for everyone telling people to fix it themselves: go try to make carrying work. just go and try and you'll see why most arma 3 revive scripts don't support it yet. but i guess i should stop whining and work harder on fixing the severe animation bugs. i'm such a cry baby...

Edited September 20, 2013 by Bad Benson

[NeuroFunker 11]

sorry but you are not getting what i'm saying. i never said no one was talking about realism. it's not my fault that you use the same shitty premade arguments in any situation for every person. you just need to learn to distinguish between several people and not think in "factions" as you put it. you telling me to get ACE just proves that you didn't read any of my posts or are just lacking the "resources" to understand what i'm saying (no offense).

i will put it shortly again so maybe it'll sink in this time: i want inbuilt dragging, carrying and reviving (yes unrealistic reviving) because it enriches gameplay. and maybe more that builds on that (arma 2) instead of cutting from it. and i want FAKs to be what makes sense. bleed stoppers combined with bleeding that actually creates a need for that. not because it's more realistic but because of the gameplay implications. yes dayZ "medical system" is much better. not because it's realistic to heal yourself with meat but because of the way it influences how people play. rules of the gameworld (not only for PvP). it's funny how actually it is you who uses realism as a cheap argument.

so yea anything is possible since the whole game has "realism flaws". i personally would've been fine with aliens as opponents (genuinely). all i want is an immersive challenging game.

there are many other things i said but it's pointless repeating them just for you. conclusion: you just don't understand. but that's ok. it's not that important. it's just baffling how much you treat everyone the same. just saying.

i'm glad to hear that. i understand the defensive reflexes against trolls who create insulting threads but the BI defense squad really needs to work on its aim. too much collateral damage :p

*creats a word docume, types: bad benson is not for realism, but for imroved faks and revive, saves and closes*

Ok, hopefully i'll remember that, you were not for realism, but just not happy with curernt faks, and medical system overall, noted. ;)

---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------

Really small things? SMALL THINGS?!! These things can alter the way the game can be played. With FAKs, you won't rely on the medic as much, you won't pull your partner away from danger. The good old epic feelings are gone. How about I go pack my ramboing gear and just go 1 man army since I won't need an extra marksman, or AT soldier on my team when I can be an all in one soldier.

Before you talk about even bigger things, stop with the pulling of BIGGER THINGS out of your behind when you never specified, WHAT BIGGER THINGS?!!

My question for you is, WHAT BIGGER THINGS?!! I want proof, and concrete evidence. You never specified what the bigger things are, so I want to hear from you, what bigger things needs fixing that are more important.

If its 3D editor, bipods (when you need an addon yet it shouldn't be necessary by now since most games including mainstream games such as BF3 even have it), weapon resting, and such, then I'll agree to that, but other than that. What are the bigger things....

maybe we are talking about differnt things, but here is what i mean with bigger things http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?163727-Is-the-game-dumbed-down&p=2510855&viewfull=1#post2510855

[zukov 490]

Is the game dumbed down?

NO is unfinished

end of this thread

[NeuroFunker 11]

Is the game dumbed down?

NO is unfinished

end of this thread

hahah, this is the first of your posts, which i most likely agree.

[-Coulum- 35]

I can see the argument here. So we're talking in terms of competitive gameplay, and someopne who does not overdo the loadout stuff might have a disadvantage over someone who does do the overloaded loadout stuff. Fair enough.

Well yes, basically for anyone who wants at least a bit of competition in their gameplay - whether it be PvP, COOP or even SP. Its not only other players that are going to exploit things, but also me personally. Now you may tell me I am playing "dumb" because in reality it is. But in-game it actually is the smart thing to do. Further more, roleplaying to be realistic is not an option for me. It ruins immersion. I expect the game to do that for me.

So while you may not notice the game is dumbed down because you play in a realistic fashion, I do because I just play to succeed - I expect the game to make success coincide with realistic actions.

That's a fairly small part of the game though. And of course the game design (by implication) is one of those "free weapons & ammo" in the form of crates at the beginning of the game. Which is already a departure from "realistic". Either that, or you're worried about people body-hopping from corpse to corpse collecting stuff. I suspect that's an even smaller problem myself.

Yes I agree that its not quite as big a problem as people make it out to be. Even with the FAKs, turnspeed and gear system, I still enjoy the hell out arma 3, just as much as arma 2. And when I find/build the right combination of mods and missions I feel that I will enjoy it far more than arma 2. But to me that doesn't change the fact that overall the game seems to be a bit simplified.

Is the game dumbed down?

NO is unfinished

end of this thread

It is possible for it to be both.

[bad benson 1733]

Yes I agree that its not quite as big a problem as people make it out to be. Even with the FAKs, turnspeed and gear system, I still enjoy the hell out arma 3, just as much as arma 2. And when I find/build the right combination of mods and missions I feel that I will enjoy it far more than arma 2. But to me that doesn't change the fact that overall the game seems to be a bit simplified.

i don't see why it has to be a huge issue that renders the game unplayable or make it bad overall to be worth to be brought up as much as possible. for me personally it is like this. i still see hope for the medical system to be changed since the configs imply that already a certain effort hs been made into that direction and also the anims have been supplied (which could be BI's way of saying "do it yourself", though). so i'll try to make a good case for that to happen any time i can. i will never understand the attitude of for example DMarkwick. he says he would like the FAKs to be only bleed stoppers himself and yet he tries very hard to make a case against it. i'm baffled...

no offense but that's a very strange attitude to me and i see a lot of "anti dayZ kiddie"-reflex mixed into that.

[Harbinger2456 10]

Lol, yes, it is unfinished and dumbed down. Bis' path looks like its set though, so we will have to hope and pray that ACE comes to our rescue once again.

[dmarkwick 261]

i will never understand the attitude of for example DMarkwick. he says he would like the FAKs to be only bleed stoppers himself and yet he tries very hard to make a case against it. i'm baffled...

No wonder you're baffled, you're right I believe the FAKs should be just bleed stoppers, but I cannot see where you get that I'm also against it...?????

[bad benson 1733]

but I cannot see where you get that I'm also against it...?????

you made the case about all the complaints being caused by "dumb" playing. that includes looting every dead enemy and by that being able to heal yourself constantly without a medic.

I realised something earlier. I don't consider the game dumbed down, because I don't do the dumb stuff. People here complain that it's possible to spin while prone (not with my game settings), use FAKs to become immortal (just don't have them in missions), and carry incredible amounts of gear (just.... don't do it?). Well, I never did any of that stuff, and I'm confused that when someone does do it, they are appalled. Also, the fear, the terrifying possibility, that even if they themselves don't do it, that someone somewhere, will.

This is one of my observation: that people are always worried about what someone else might do. I've never seen anyone go body hopping. I've never seen anyone spin 180 prone to their advantage. And as for FAKs, I don't have any way to tell if someone is loaded up with them unless I too visit every body I see, so I got no way to monitor that.

i might have misunderstood your statements but since you were quite specific, i'm pretty sure i understood what you said though. you probably just took it too far for your own good :p

so yea you didn't say "i don't want better FAKs" but as i said before you try to reason against complaints about the FAKs in that weird way. i think i made clear what i meant...

Coulum pretty much nailed it with far less words than i could do. it DOES matter even if it's not a huge part of the game (it's actually a big part though). it's not an unreasonable phobia about other people like you try to make it look. it's about immersion for people who do more than roleplay away flaws in the game's design.

but i really don't want to go on. i'm personally more about the actual game rather than talking about who said what. i just have a bad habit of joining in to this kind of discussion :o

[dmarkwick 261]

you made the case about all the complaints being caused by "dumb" playing. that includes looting every dead enemy and by that being able to heal yourself constantly without a medic.

i might have misunderstood your statements but since you were quite specific, i'm pretty sure i understood what you said though. you probably just took it too far for your own good :p

Coulum pretty much nailed it with far less words than i could do. it DOES matter even if it's not a huge part of the game (it's actually a big part though). it's not an unreasonable phobia about other people like you try to make it look. it's about immersion for people who do more than roleplay away flaws in the game's design.

but i really don't want to go on. i'm personally more about the actual game rather than talking about who said what. i just have a bad habit of joining in to this kind of discussion :o

I see. Well, they (FAKs) don't work how I think they should work, so I simply don't use them. Mostly. Sometimes I do use them when I'm just doodling about trying to see how scenarios play out. But if I'm doing that, more often I simply use the allowDamage command to switch it off completely.

[bad benson 1733]

well that explains your attitude towards them and why i basically said "different people, different priorities". :p all good. we both love the game. just trying to keep BI on their toes about stuff that i think is important and could with "relatively simple changes" improve the experience.

[David77 10]

This thread needs to be closed. It's going nowhere & can lead to nothing but arguments. What good can come out of this thread? There aren't any. Only "bad" things can come out of this thread. Why is it still open?

[Takoda 10]

This thread needs to be closed. It's going nowhere & can lead to nothing but arguments. What good can come out of this thread? There aren't any. Only "bad" things can come out of this thread. Why is it still open?

This thread allows community members to express their frustrations. I personally don't agree with many of the comments posted here but you cant deny the passion people have for trying to improve the ARMA series. It doesn't hurt to let people vent.