AI Discussion (dev branch)

[Bouben 3]

Well all these bugs could mean that something with AI is WIP :-)

[oukej 2910]

SPILL DA BEENS

The logic behind weapon switching (rifle / sidearm / launcher) needed to be changed to make all the possible combinations work flawlessly (also when switching to binocular). Some bugs appeared because of how AI related to the previous logic. (engineers/medics getting stuck after their action, AI unable to change stances properly, not able to get their weapons back from the lowered position...) We were not able to catch them all offhand. Some slipped thru and even made it to the Stable branch and we are very sorry about that.

In the current Dev branch the standard armed soldiers should no longer have any problems with changing stances, but we still have at least two issues remaining.

Unarmed AI can't change stance up and AI with binocular can't change stance currently at all

With the more down-to-earth logic the behavior should be much more bulletproof and less prone to errors - at least after we fix all the "childhood diseases".

Thanks for your patience and once again sorry about the inconvenience.

[daze23 1]

yep, I noticed this playing through the campaign, in situations where I had nvg's and the enemies only had flashlights. somehow they could see me, very far away, in the 'pitch black'. especially when they're in 'combat' mode

[Shagulon 1]

Thanks for the clear an open heads up oukej, very much appreciated :)

Gonna give this a test now

[alky_lee 279]

Some slipped thru and even made it to the Stable branch and we are very sorry about that.

I assume the stable branch will have to wait for the fixes to come through. Will that be with the release of the next episode or will there be another update in the meantime?

[neodammerung 8]

I assume the stable branch will have to wait for the fixes to come through. Will that be with the release of the next episode or will there be another update in the meantime?

General Discussion Thread :

Yes, there will very likely be at least one update before Win is released (and some other cool stuff ).

[chrys45 1]

It would be awesome when the AI could keep their pistols in holster (safe mode) like some time ago.

[Fergal 10]

Enemy AI can see at night time (pitch black) without use of NGV or any other light source. They can see me anywhere from zero to 300meters, and still perform thier super accruate one shot one kill trick, all on "normal" skill level and "super ai" disabled.

[dale0404 5]

Any news for the problem where the AI walks through editor placed objects like concrete barriers etc?

I'll post a video tomorrow to illustrate if needed.

[Dwarden 1125]

Enemy AI can see at night time (pitch black) without use of NGV or any other light source. They can see me anywhere from zero to 300meters, and still perform thier super accruate one shot one kill trick, all on "normal" skill level and "super ai" disabled.

this is very strange, cause i remember in A2/OA betas we actually added checks that the AI can't see well in dark and hell even affected thevalue by lightsources nearby ... (like lamps) (not sure if moon intensity, as that was added later)

[Maxzy 12]

Why AI doesn't fly in straight lines no more? I mean in A2 if I wanted to AI controlled helicopter make a simple flight over landing strip all I had to do is place a flying heli at one end of the strip and put a waypoint on the other - and beautifull shots of helicopter flying 3 metres high over the landing strip is guaranteed. But now it's trajectory is never straight, and the higher you set him to fly, the worse it gets, i.e. if you set him to fly at 50 metres his path is only slightly curved (he always goes right for some reason), set him to fly at 500 and his trajectory is more like a semicircle, and if you set him at 1000, just watch him fucking go =) - it gonna be circles, eights and laces. Is this intended so AI doesn't look so robotic or is it another buggy thing?

[MissionCreep 12]

I don't understand ... are you talking about enemy AI in SP, or PvP or a human player spotting AIs? If you play in Regular setting as a human, in a Blackfoot gunship, you can spot enemy movement on the HUD or on the map and move in from well over 1 km and identify and engage friend-or-foe typically starting at just over 1000 m. If a human player can do this, doesn't it suppose to reason that an AI can too? AI squads also call out "contact" for civilians and civilian vehicles ... there is quite often no differentiation between military (friend or foe) or civilian made by the AI call-outs and it is up to squad members or the leader to make and/or confirm positive ID on the contact.

Pretty sure that was scripted. OFP and armed assault had that "insta-switch" on the radar when an enemy jumped into any vehicle, the change came in A2 (and now the step back in A3?).

There was a mission a mission in Arma2 (I think it was a user mission, maybe it was in Harvest Red - but most likely not) where you had to assassinate a rebel commander with a roadside bomb in the night. The ambush site was deep in enemy territory and you had to pass several checkpoints/guard positions. The easiest way to get to the ambush site was to ditch your millitary vehicle and get into a civilian car and drive unhindered through the roadblocks. Great mission ... I can't remember who did it.

Edited February 6, 2014 by MissionCreep

[xendance 3]

Speaking of path finding, why does infantry AI stay clear of forests when in aware mode? For vehicles it makes sense, but for infantry it doesn't, they shouldn't avoid forests.

I would like some kind of options (scripting/waypoint options) that would disable the forest avoidance of infantry AI.

Here's a pic of the situation I mean: http://i.imgur.com/rUaNs2d.jpg

The squads started from roughly the same spot, but you can see that two squads are going around the forest even though I would like them to move in a straight line through the forest, but I don't have any tools at my disposal to make them do that.

[five_seven5-7 56]

Enemy AI can see at night time (pitch black) without use of NGV or any other light source. They can see me anywhere from zero to 300meters, and still perform thier super accruate one shot one kill trick, all on "normal" skill level and "super ai" disabled.

Yep, i confirm this. Happened once in Bingo Fuel, pitch black. Without any light sources around i was shoot down.

They have perception of shapes in the darkness or they communicate with each other, if there is no response they open fire?

[Bouben 3]

Speaking of path finding, why does infantry AI stay clear of forests when in aware mode? For vehicles it makes sense, but for infantry it doesn't, they shouldn't avoid forests.

I would like some kind of options (scripting/waypoint options) that would disable the forest avoidance of infantry AI.

Here's a pic of the situation I mean: http://i.imgur.com/rUaNs2d.jpg

The squads started from roughly the same spot, but you can see that two squads are going around the forest even though I would like them to move in a straight line through the forest, but I don't have any tools at my disposal to make them do that.

I would say that forests are a difficult environment for AI to keep pace with other units. Another thing is that forests are perfect places for ambush.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

They have perception of shapes in the darkness or they communicate with each other, if there is no response they open fire?

Man, what you say would be nice but that is a complete sci-fi. They have no perception of shapes in the darkness and does not communicate with each other. It is simply bugged. They simply know, because they are allowed to somehow.

[xendance 3]

I would say that forests are a difficult environment for AI to keep pace with other units. Another thing is that forests are perfect places for ambush.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

Man, what you say would be nice but that is a complete sci-fi. They have no perception of shapes in the darkness and does not communicate with each other. It is simply bugged. They simply know, because they are allowed to somehow.

Forests are also great at keeping from being seen. Or would you rather walk in the open? ;)

Point is that I would like an option for setting the AI path finding behaviour. I don't want to use the "SAFE" waypoint mode because it does way more than just set the path finding behaviour.

Also the AI can keep up in forests just fine.

[alky_lee 279]

I have units in a mission. After team assembly in a forest the units are in two vehicles. I drive one and AI drive the other. I have tried various things to get the AI to move but they just sit there. When I use team switch they haven't even turned the engine on or tried to move. At least before they would drive around the outside of the forest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN1ZEVrw-_o

I think forests provide good cover from sight for both sides. The lack of a defined route through makes it difficult to spring a good ambush.

[bonchie 39]

I don't understand ... are you talking about enemy AI in SP, or PvP or a human player spotting AIs? If you play in Regular setting as a human, in a Blackfoot gunship, you can spot enemy movement on the HUD or on the map and move in from well over 1 km and identify and engage friend-or-foe typically starting at just over 1000 m. If a human player can do this, doesn't it suppose to reason that an AI can too? AI squads also call out "contact" for civilians and civilian vehicles ... there is quite often no differentiation between military (friend or foe) or civilian made by the AI call-outs and it is up to squad members or the leader to make and/or confirm positive ID on the contact.

The fact that players can do it (to a lesser extent) doesn't make it any less ridiculous when AI do it.

In real life, gunships do not have magic radar that shows red dots miles out marking enemy targets.

In the case of players, you do see the red dots, but it's closer in and only in the direction you are facing (i.e. you don't see red dots behind you). The AI can be flying the opposite direction, 2km off, and the moment you enter a civilian vehicle he magically knows where you are, swings around, and blasts you.

[JamesSaga 1]

@Bonchie I think he means spotting them with the thermal camera, though the the magic radar is a separate issue.

[Bouben 3]

Forests are also great at keeping from being seen. Or would you rather walk in the open? ;)

Point is that I would like an option for setting the AI path finding behaviour. I don't want to use the "SAFE" waypoint mode because it does way more than just set the path finding behaviour.

Also the AI can keep up in forests just fine.

Yes, options are always desirable.

I personally cannot stand the safe mode in Arma. They look like a bunch of stupid fashion models while walking. A complete immersion killer. But this is offtopic, of course.

[Bouben 3]

The AI can be flying the opposite direction, 2km off, and the moment you enter a civilian vehicle he magically knows where you are, swings around, and blasts you.

If this is a truth than it is definitely a problem.

[giorgygr 61]

@bonchie..

For sure ARMA series are NOT for the mainstream gamer who expects a mainstream game.

(although you can tweak lots of settings to make it as arcade possible)

about this:

".. and the moment you enter a civilian vehicle he magically knows where you are, swings around, and blasts you.."

Yes..it's a very old problem to the series/also very unrealistic and annoying AND immersion breaker.

I hope the guys will fix it soon..

[andersson 285]

It's an old problem coming back as we didn't have it in A2.

[giorgygr 61]

It's an old problem coming back as we didn't have it in A2.

So in ARMA2 when you enter a civilian vehicle the Opposing force doesn't automatically identify the vehicle as "hostile"?..

I m not sure about that..but i ll love to be mistaken because the fix would be -even more- easy

[h - 169]

The same AI unresponsiveness when known enemies are around plagues the UAVs as well, been trying to make a mission using the Darter and it goes completely nuts when enemies are detected (as in it goes to the auto-combat mode):

- It will take off on it's own and start flying around if an enemy passes nearby (especially if the enemy is a vehicle), this happend regardless if you're connected to it or not.

- On autohover when player is controlling the turret it can go completely spastic if enemy vehicles are about. It starts to pitch, bank and roll making aiming with the turret completely impossible. This happens without autohover too.

- Related to the above one, if you then release UAV controls and put waypoints for it it will not obey, instead it will circle a small circle.

Sounds very familiar..