AI Discussion (dev branch)

[bad benson 1733]

Well yeah but the issue here is that AIs face away for a few consecutive shots and then when the "revealing" (or something) shot happens they turn around and instantly know the enemy position.

AI reaction is exactly the same with MX rifles.

exactly! please watch the second part of my video and some of the videos in the tickets again. it may be hard to see but exactly at the moment i deliver the kill shot they all snap on me like aimbots and start shooting no matter where they were facing before. i even made a shot counter to show that the number of shots i fired is half of what would make me be discovered against a single guy.

being revealed against a single unit seems to be ok, the problem appears when you kill one guy of a squad.

would be nice if the devs could foucs on that problem. just fixing that would be a huge improvement.

[Stlkrash1 1]

Don't you all love how you can't say a neg thing about this? They try to Ban you instantly. Sounds like somebody knows they are wrong.. Then they attack you in private messages. How nice....

Social media will prevail...

[St. Jimmy 272]

Don't you all love how you can't say a neg thing about this? They try to Ban you instantly. Sounds like somebody knows they are wrong.. Then they attack you in private messages. How nice....

Social media will prevail...

So it begins...

[dale0404 5]

Don't you all love how you can't say a neg thing about this? They try to Ban you instantly. Sounds like somebody knows they are wrong.. Then they attack you in private messages. How nice....

Social media will prevail...

What the hell are you on about? Dude, stay on topic and if you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it.

[max power 21]

Don't you all love how you can't say a neg thing about this? They try to Ban you instantly. Sounds like somebody knows they are wrong.. Then they attack you in private messages. How nice....

Social media will prevail...

Uh... Are you on the same forum as the rest of us? :confused:

If by neg you mean criticism (even aggressive criticism), then I'd say your statement is patently false. Any amount of reading anywhere on this forum would sufficiently debunk your accusations here.

If by neg you mean blatantly insulting, then yes, I would say your statement is accurate.

Please take any further discussion about how the forum is moderated to PM with a moderator. Thanks.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Max Power

[goldenfiver 11]

Just came across some wierd behavior.

I placed two hunters on a road, and an enemy rifle squad 100 meters away. The rifle squad destroyed the vehicles (as expected). I then drove an APC to where the enemy squad was (the squad could not do anything or destroy the APC, because their AT ammo ran out) and the AI just ran to me, circling the APC / standing infront of it. The AI seems completely unawae of their odds, and instead of running away from me, they just sat there- letting me shoot them one by one using the APC turret. (even as I started shooting, the AI did nothing). I expected the AI to realize they have no chance taking down the APC and run away / change formation.

[progamer 14]

Just came across some wierd behavior.

I placed two hunters on a road, and an enemy rifle squad 100 meters away. The rifle squad destroyed the vehicles (as expected). I then drove an APC to where the enemy squad was (the squad could not do anything or destroy the APC, because their AT ammo ran out) and the AI just ran to me, circling the APC / standing infront of it. The AI seems completely unawae of their odds, and instead of running away from me, they just sat there- letting me shoot them one by one using the APC turret. (even as I started shooting, the AI did nothing). I expected the AI to realize they have no chance taking down the APC and run away / change formation.

Hmmm, could use a surrender animation lol.

[barakokula31 10]

Hmmm, could use a surrender animation lol.

Maybe this is really going to be added...

[bad benson 1733]

i'd prefer a straight forward odds calculation though ;) i mean we could have both. surrendering doesn't make sense if they fist have to run to you to lower their odds to 0.

i remember how it always annoyed me how AI never really had a consitent logical way to deal with being out numbered or out gunned. AI without AT capabilities reacting to tanks is another of those very old problems. been making tests with this since ofp. it just needs a simple check. no AT = avoid at all costs. simple.

EDIT:

on a more general note: it might be more effective to collect all these things in the first post with the right ticket, if there is one so it doesn't get lost. seems better than just scattered tickets on the ticker.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Bad Benson

[GottyPlays 10]

it's great to hear the devs actually caring for the ai finally! now for me the only concern with ai is that they will never take cover in combat: "im' not a real person so why would i care to not die, so i will stand here and get shot at" and the above post :P

if i had doubts on bi in the past about being the best devs out there, now i have none! you guys are really great people!

[doln 10]

I've illustrated here what I find is the biggest issue concerning the AI.

http://imgur.com/a/rDe4F

Haha wow that got more compressed than I thought. The red text in the second pic just says 'bad dudes who are totally visible, ignore the compression'

I really hope this gets fixed because it makes playing with AI teammates a massive headache (though its not as bad as arma 2), as well as making the enemy AI very easy to pick off. Some of the most fun I've had in Arma 3 was when I was in a ~500m firefight where both me and my aggressor were in very good cover, taking potshots and waiting for the other to cock up. This isn't really possible to do against AI, only with players, which I don't play much of. That earlier example sounds like wasteland, which is not the case. I'm not a fan of wasteland.

[Smurf 12]

Mine main gripes with the AI:

• General Driving (WIP it seems)
  
• CQB and indoors behavior
  
• Sudden Godlike aiming\spotting capabilities
  
• Lack of use of supressing fire (and supression effects on player and AI, but that is another history)
  
• Use of cover in general is bad. When advancing to a target they kind of do it alright. When under fire from a unknown position they do nothing. There is the "Take cover\Hide" command, couldn't it slip in one of those FSM? EDIT: The post above mine picture it clear.
  

Using the last two points + tweaks on their precision would somewhat mask the third, and most complained, point.

Anyway, since the main bases of the game are now laid and solid, the work with the AI can move faster and that is why we are only seeing this thread now. Good.

It would be better if you tell exactly what you want us to search for, even providing some repro missions to give feedback later, along with the normal community feedback activity.

[Rolling 1]

Just came across some wierd behavior.

I placed two hunters on a road, and an enemy rifle squad 100 meters away. The rifle squad destroyed the vehicles (as expected). I then drove an APC to where the enemy squad was (the squad could not do anything or destroy the APC, because their AT ammo ran out) and the AI just ran to me, circling the APC / standing infront of it. The AI seems completely unawae of their odds, and instead of running away from me, they just sat there- letting me shoot them one by one using the APC turret. (even as I started shooting, the AI did nothing). I expected the AI to realize they have no chance taking down the APC and run away / change formation.

I just did a similar scenario, I placed a rifle squad (without the AT soldier) and drove a Marid up to them. At first they launched grenades, and tried to run away into the forest. After I killed all but two, the remaining two stopped running and let me drive right next to them, without firing or attempting to flee/take cover.

[progamer 14]

I made a very simple mission trying to test the convoy capabilities of the AI and much to my surprise they actually stayed in formation! Though both armored vehicle teleported to the front of the convoy and a test involving a hunter made the two transports and the hunter unable to move. They are also a bit slow to start moving. Link to the very simple Convoy test i made: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8p0aqqevyqx1ma9/bJJwZoRazu

---------- Post added at 23:41 ---------- Previous post was at 23:40 ----------

This is a big step for AI in convoys from Arma 2 were a convoy would mean a navigation disaster for the AI.

[Varanon 892]

I made a very simple mission trying to test the convoy capabilities of the AI and much to my surprise they actually stayed in formation! Though both armored vehicle teleported to the front of the convoy and a test involving a hunter made the two transports and the hunter unable to move. They are also a bit slow to start moving. Link to the very simple Convoy test i made: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8p0aqqevyqx1ma9/bJJwZoRazu

Is the convoy moving through town ? Taking curves ?

The problem with Arma 2 convoys is that they usually start going back and forth when they go around corners.

Also, convoys made of different vehicles (say, APC + truck) are very problematic.

BTW, the teleporting is probably due to formation.

[progamer 14]

Is the convoy moving through town ? Taking curves ?

The problem with Arma 2 convoys is that they usually start going back and forth when they go around corners.

Also, convoys made of different vehicles (say, APC + truck) are very problematic.

BTW, the teleporting is probably due to formation.

It's just vehicles driving through a mostly straight road, in Arma 2 vehicles would pass each other and get stuck for me.

[dale0404 5]

Anyone notice that the AI spin 360 degrees before changing to a different stance? I do have a video of this but it is less pronounced than what I am saying. Basically the AI did as I have stated then then will spin for ~ 90 degrees before moving to a different stance.

[Alwarren 2765]

It's just vehicles driving through a mostly straight road, in Arma 2 vehicles would pass each other and get stuck for me.

Just tried with something a bit more "complex" (well, complex in the sense that it involves curves and a bridge).

First try: Three hunters, column formation, careless, normal speed. Waypoint at the beginning (Military Range) and end (airbase). Hunter drives straight around the curve, misses the bridge intentionally and hits a latern pole at the other side. End of journey, can't get off the lantern.

Second try: Same setup, with an extra waypoint on the road before the bridge. Lead hunter makes it accross the bridge, second hunter stops on the bridge and doesn't continue. End of journey.

Third try: Added an extra waypoint behind the bridge. Convoy actually makes it to the airbase, only one roadsign hit. Problem: Any ambient civilian completely destroyed the convoy.

Fourth try, getting kinky. I replaced the last Hunter with a truck. Truck seems to be faster at accelerating, and frequently overtakes the second Hunter, always trying to evade it and ramming something off-road. Eventually the convoy arrived.

Bottom line, driving is still horrible as soon as anything like cornering is involved, especially if the convoy is a mix of things.

I think what is needed would be these things:

1) Men class should, when they see a vehicle approach, try to quickly get out of the way. It's a natural reaction anyway, only the very brave stand still in front of an approaching tank but 99% of people and probably 100% of animals would just try to get out of the way as fast as possible. AI should not stoically stick to their route and/or place if a vehicle is approaching. Likewise, vehicles should NOT try to evade but rather stop in front of Man class AI.

2) Now that the waypoints dialog has categories, why not create a new "Driving" category with specific waypoints for driving, especially for convoys.

For example, a covoy should have a lead vehicle (the gorup leader) that gets the waypoints, some of them are "DRIVE" which are just like MOVE waypoints, and some are "DRIVE AND WAIT", those would be "choke" points where the lead vehicle slows down automatically IF the next vehicle is too far away. Each driver should be aware that they are driving in a convoy, not just trying to maintain a formation. They should try to maintain a minimum and maximum distance to the next vehicle. If they cannot keep up, all other vehicles behind this must slow down.

3) Driver AI must think ahead. They mostly drive full speed towards a junction and then try to slow down, often overshooting the target. Any driver should be able to calculate ahead and see how long it takes for him to sow down. They should also know about all the other vehicles in the convoy.

[Varanon 892]

2) Now that the waypoints dialog has categories, why not create a new "Driving" category with specific waypoints for driving, especially for convoys.

For example, a covoy should have a lead vehicle (the gorup leader) that gets the waypoints, some of them are "DRIVE" which are just like MOVE waypoints, and some are "DRIVE AND WAIT", those would be "choke" points where the lead vehicle slows down automatically IF the next vehicle is too far away. Each driver should be aware that they are driving in a convoy, not just trying to maintain a formation. They should try to maintain a minimum and maximum distance to the next vehicle. If they cannot keep up, all other vehicles behind this must slow down.

I made a ticket for that some time ago.

[-ghost-tf 12]

1) Men class should, when they see a vehicle approach, try to quickly get out of the way. It's a natural reaction anyway, only the very brave stand still in front of an approaching tank but 99% of people and probably 100% of animals would just try to get out of the way as fast as possible. AI should not stoically stick to their route and/or place if a vehicle is approaching. Likewise, vehicles should NOT try to evade but rather stop in front of Man class AI.

Yeah, I've always been missing this in the arma series, Men of War: Assault squad does this nicely. When a tank or any other vehicles approaches a group of infantry, the infantry would make space for the vehicle.

---------- Post added at 00:53 ---------- Previous post was at 00:52 ----------

I made a ticket for that some time ago.

Upvoted.

[Tyl3r99 41]

Yeah, I've always been missing this in the arma series, Men of War: Assault squad does this nicely. When a tank or any other vehicles approaches a group of infantry, the infantry would make space for the vehicle.

---------- Post added at 00:53 ---------- Previous post was at 00:52 ----------

Upvoted.

upvoted

[goldenfiver 11]

I just did a similar scenario, I placed a rifle squad (without the AT soldier) and drove a Marid up to them. At first they launched grenades, and tried to run away into the forest. After I killed all but two, the remaining two stopped running and let me drive right next to them, without firing or attempting to flee/take cover.

Well, they do throw grenades and react somewhet better if you use awheeled APC (tested just now: AI threw grenades and tried to run away. Whenever i caught up to them tho, they started to slow down to a walking paste / stopped . ), When it comes to tracked APC - they do nothing.

I think they sohuld take cover / hide / use buildings as cover instead os letting me run them over again and again / shoot them down one by one.

Look at those pictures:

http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/600/huv8.jpg

http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/577/txav.jpg

I am able to get this close to them, and they seem to ignore me completely. I can kill them in three different ways (run them over, use the canon or the MG) and they seem pretty calm.

One picture shows an enemy rifleman taking position, (pointing his weapon forward) while my APC is parked infront of him. The Rifleman positioned himself that way before I got there, and even as I parked there (which makes his position useless since he can't shoot forward now) nothing - no reaction.

Edited July 25, 2013 by goldenfiver

[m4dm4x 10]

On a public server a few days ago, i could see that the Ai work. We had to capture Mike 26 and i got surpressed by some enemies, so i decided to run on the top of one of this green military building, i switched into 3rd person because i fought it was hadcore sniper AI again, but it was a single automatic rifle men which surpressed me when i tried to shoot back. he moved to a white building and then he leand on the right side and tried to shoot me again. I take cover again and then the AI makes a big mistake, it descided to run on the other side of the the airbase and i shot it. The AI was using the Opfor machine gun without sight.

This was the first time in all Arma Games (also ACE) where this happend to me, but most of the time Ai is to dumb or hit you to fast. I hope i could help you with my "report"

[f2k sel 164]

Anyone notice that the AI spin 360 degrees before changing to a different stance? I do have a video of this but it is less pronounced than what I am saying. Basically the AI did as I have stated then then will spin for ~ 90 degrees before moving to a different stance.

Actually I thought I'd seen it happening but when I re-checked they didn't seem to be.

I wonder if it's a distance thing, I thought it was happening around 100 meters but up close I didn't see it.

Can't check until tonight.

[Tyl3r99 41]

AI can only get better and better especially with the ASR AI addons i cannot wait

On a public server a few days ago, i could see that the Ai work. We had to capture Mike 26 and i got surpressed by some enemies, so i decided to run on the top of one of this green military building, i switched into 3rd person because i fought it was hadcore sniper AI again, but it was a single automatic rifle men which surpressed me when i tried to shoot back. he moved to a white building and then he leand on the right side and tried to shoot me again. I take cover again and then the AI makes a big mistake, it descided to run on the other side of the the airbase and i shot it. The AI was using the Opfor machine gun without sight.

This was the first time in all Arma Games (also ACE) where this happend to me, but most of the time Ai is to dumb or hit you to fast. I hope i could help you with my "report"