AI Discussion (dev branch)

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Switching ammo according to the target or situation has been requested (especially in rel. to SDAR dual-purpose vs. STANAG) from the players and discussed in the team several times. Sadly it wouldn't be as easy at it may look. It's not planned. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

 

Why is it hard? It sound like a single yes/no check to me. "Is the unit underwater, yes/no".

Does the Ai need to reload the ammo... Not really. In real life they would load the ammo based on risk from the get go anyway so having a "magic swap" on ammo wouldnt really break immersion if you ask me.

[Ivanoff.N 61]

Maybe it is meant this way but still...

 

When AI driver of the tank does not have a primary weapon and the whole tank is in combat mode, this driver is then driving using roads.

If this AI driver has a weapon, then in combat mode he will take the shortest route accross the fields etc. not using roads .

[Vasily.B 529]

Player cannot command tank, if crew is turned out.

[Freghar 73]

I had a breakthrough with this code combo. It turned out as hoped in more than 10 test runs:

hint "flee you fool !";

{
  _x commandWatch objNull;
  _x disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  _x disableAI "TARGET";
  _x disableAI "SUPPRESSION";
  _x disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";

} forEach units group wz_g1;

g1 =  group wz_g1;
_wp = g1 addWaypoint [getMarkerPos "wz_wp1", 20] ;
_wp setWaypointSpeed "FULL";
_wp setWaypointBehaviour "AWARE";
_wp setWaypointType "MOVE";

Thanks for the sequence, it seems to work better than what I did:

private _grp = group _this;
{
  _x disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  _x disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  _x disableAI "TARGET";
  _x disableAI "COVER";
  _x disableAI "SUPPRESSION";
  _x disableAI "FSM";
  _x setUnitPos "UP";
  _x doWatch objNull;
} forEach units _grp;
[_grp, currentWaypoint _grp] setWaypointForceBehaviour true;

with the waypoint set to AWARE / FULL. This code is actually an "updated" version of an older one, which set behavior properties manually on the unit.

The problem is that both of these code blocks seem to work well only on units which haven't entered combat. If you try activating them on suppressed units in COMBAT, ie. with an existing waypoint active, some (almost all) of the units get stuck. They just stand in place as if AI was completely disabled (allowDamage false) - http://i.imgur.com/JtHvTcE.jpg .

This was mentioned in multiple old threads, but nobody found a good solution to it and neither did I - it seems to happen for any disableAI command, but semi-randomly. With the first code block, the unit(s) eventually get unstuck, within 60-300 seconds, but by this time they would be long dead.

I tried just about everything to make them unstuck, but nothing seems to work - even doMove just makes them raise/lower the weapon. switchMove "" does nothing. The units aren't stuck in an animation or physics simulation, it's the AI that seems to be temporarily stuck as if MOVE was disabled (enabling it does nothing). Doing enableAI on all supported types also doesn't help.

To reproduce:

• place a NATO squad and a CSAT squad, about 100m away, name them, make all units immortal
• configure game master, so you can see what's going on
• use init.sqf or game logic init line to assign all units under that game master
• start the game, watch groups fire at each other, give it a few seconds
• make a waypoint (via curator) for one of the groups, watch nothing happening, both units in COMBAT
• configure the waypoint for AWARE / FULL via curator
• execute my (second) code block on the chosen group, by variable name
• watch as all units stand up and do nothing

(executing the first code block makes all but 2 units freeze, the 2 units behave as they should - fleeing, after some time, another 2 units unfreeze, etc.)

There are other ways of making groups flee (allowFleeing, setting courage to 0, etc.), but none of them are really effective for making units aggressively retreat under fire.

[sadfrog17 40]

I've never seen AI using HE shells in tanks against infantry, only coaxial MG. Maybe tanks should use HE shells against infantry groups and MG against single targets?

And crew should definetly not hopping out of tank when tracks (on some IFVs and MBTs) are broken.

I hope BIS someday will implement this.

[2nd ranger 282]

Switching ammo according to the target or situation has been requested (especially in rel. to SDAR dual-purpose vs. STANAG) from the players and discussed in the team several times. Sadly it wouldn't be as easy at it may look. It's not planned. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

[Vasily.B 529]

I've never seen AI using HE shells in tanks against infantry, only coaxial MG. Maybe tanks should use HE shells against infantry groups and MG against single targets?

And crew should definetly not hopping out of tank when tracks (on some IFVs and MBTs) are broken.

I hope BIS someday will implement this.

You can try my mod

BTW switching type of ammo would be perfect addition for realism. For now APC are using its autocanons with proper ammunition for selected targets BUT it cost something - you have something like 2 cannons in every apc - one with AP ammo and one with HE which kills realism - in real you need to change ammo belt if you wanna AP instead of HE and vice versa - not push one button and you have instantly acces to secondary ammunition. I remember mod for A2 or for A1 where tanks were using proper ammo. But there again, all vehicles with autocannons are wasting ammo, same with HMG - look how they use it - AI spot enemy fire long series at enemy, where first bullet kills him, and all 9 other is shooting in the air. Its clealry waste of ammo and require fixing. Specially with mods like RHS, where realism is at first place and Some vehicles have low ammo, it finish it very fast and you become easy target.

 

 

 

 

 

[Roach_ 52]

And crew should definetly not hopping out of tank when tracks (on some IFVs and MBTs) are broken.

I hope BIS someday will implement this.

 

this allowCrewInImmobile true;

[lato190 55]

Switching ammo according to the target or situation has been requested (especially in rel. to SDAR dual-purpose vs. STANAG) from the players and discussed in the team several times. Sadly it wouldn't be as easy at it may look. It's not planned. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

 

didnt the AI in ArmA 2 used missiles against infantry ?

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

 units freeze

 

 

First a minor tip. I would use _x doWatch objNull; instead of commandWatch because it prevents the Ai leader or Player saying "2 no target, 3 no target, 4 cancel target" etc for every freaking unit individually under hes command.

 

Secondly on the freezing seems to happen if the Ai knows about a enemy, has target him and then is told to ignore it watch something else and leave. Its like the processes just stops hangs or something. I get the impression it has something to do with the "target list". If there isnt anything in the target list it might not happen. So maybe having an ability to "flush it" might indirectly fix the issue. Flushing the list would also remove the autodanger effect. As in opposed to manually turning it off via commands. Basically whenever a unit leaves autodanger and goes back to normal it is ALWAYS at the same time as the target list becomes empty.

 

Reproduce.

Have some normal units under your command and have them be invulnerable.

Run into enemies while being in aware, escape without using any script commands etc. Once in a safe place, while Ai in autodanger, check the target list. It will have targets. Speed up time until the units auto leaves autodanger and check target list again. It will be empty.

[Freghar 73]

First a minor tip. I would use _x doWatch objNull; instead of commandWatch because it prevents the Ai leader or Player saying "2 no target, 3 no target, 4 cancel target" etc for every freaking unit individually under hes command.

That's why I do use "doWatch", the "commandWatch" was from a quoted post.

 

Secondly on the freezing seems to happen if the Ai knows about a enemy, has target him and then is told to ignore it watch something else and leave. Its like the processes just stops hangs or something. I get the impression it has something to do with the "target list". If there isnt anything in the target list it might not happen. So maybe having an ability to "flush it" might indirectly fix the issue. Flushing the list would also remove the autodanger effect. As in opposed to manually turning it off via commands. Basically whenever a unit leaves autodanger and goes back to normal it is ALWAYS at the same time as the target list becomes empty.

I kind of figured it was something similar as it seems to happen only to units which have already "acquired" a target and cannot get rid of it even through doWatch. If I don't disableAI, they just keep shooting, ignoring any movement orders (despite being in AWARE/SAFE/CARELESS/..), so having an ability to flush the target list could help immensely.

I was wondering a bit why there's no "forget" command in addition to "reveal".

[KeyCat 131]

Since I have no room for a A3 dev version on my SSD I'm interested to hear about others experience with the latest AI changes mentioned in recent AI change log.

 

/KC

[serjames 357]

Hi oukej, Here's one for you I think. Is there any way we can avoid the Steroid Terminator Ai reaction when crew bail from vehicles....?

 

 

They should be disoriented, choking on smoke, panicked, completely NOT able to 180 No scope....

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

 

Hi oukej, Here's one for you I think. Is there any way we can avoid the Steroid Terminator Ai reaction when crew bail from vehicles....?

 

 

They should be disoriented, choking on smoke, panicked, completely NOT able to 180 No scope....

 

 

I agree

 

in the meantime try something like this:

vehicle addEventHandler [
     'GetOut',
     {
          params ['_vehicle','_position','_unit','_turret'];
          if (!canMove _vehicle) then {
               _unit doWatch objNull;
               _unit setSuppression (random [0.25,0.75,1]);
               resetSubgroupDirection _unit;
               if ((random 1) > 0.75) then {_unit removeWeapon (primaryWeapon _unit);};
               if ((random 1) > 0.75) then {
                    reload _unit;
               } else {
                    [_unit] spawn {
                         _unit = _this select 0;
                         _unit disableAI 'FSM';
                         _unit disableAI 'TARGET';
                         _skill = skill _unit;
                         _unit setSkill 0;
                         sleep 5 + (random 5);
                         _unit enableAI 'FSM';
                         _unit enableAI 'TARGET';
                         _unit setSkill _skill;
                    };
               };
          };
     }
];

[oukej 2910]

They should be suppressed if you fired at them before they disembarked. Also there should be some error from turning.

But the overall effect doesn't seem strong enough.

[supercereal4 29]

didnt the AI in ArmA 2 used missiles against infantry ?

I seem to recall that they did, but that led to them firing ALL their rockets at infantry, not just their AP rounds.

[serjames 357]

They should be suppressed if you fired at them before they disembarked. Also there should be some error from turning.

But the overall effect doesn't seem strong enough.

 

I've never seen them suppressed tbh.... If you're within 100 metres of bailing crew, whether it's from a burning T72 or an ifrit... your chances of survival as an ambusher are pretty low....

 

 

 

Any chance of building into the game some of that code ? I.e. random disarmament etc ?

[froggyluv 2136]

 Why do AI leaders still tell their squad to actively engage a tank when they have no weapon for it? Is this something that will ever be addressed as its just plain human self preservation to NOT fire at a tank and let it know where you are. Been testing and the AI literally chase after tanks to their own demise when ideally they should be seeking active cover with a Hold Fire command or just flat out running.

 

 I know your not aiming for 'advanced military tactics simulator of the year' but .......

[danil-ch 165]

No comment  :D

[Vasily.B 529]

No comment  :D

Target Supressed :D

[ImperialAlex 72]

No comment  :D

Shooting the floor is perfectly fine, that's what you ordered him to do after all. I'm more concerned by the last few rounds (those that nearly kill you). That seems like a bug where he's returning to his previous animation before the firing is actually completed.

[ceeeb 147]

Shooting the floor is perfectly fine, that's what you ordered him to do after all. I'm more concerned by the last few rounds (those that nearly kill you). That seems like a bug where he's returning to his previous animation before the firing is actually completed.

 

AI can freely change target/aim point during a burst of fire. Feedback tracker report: https://feedback.bistudio.com/T71576

[Vasily.B 529]

Agree, pretty annoying. Spcially on HMG on tanks, when AI just wasting ammo, which isnt much. It happens on autocannons as well. I really hope Devs are reading this, and goincg to change that - burst should stop when target is down, or make the burst smaller in overall.

[klamacz 448]

They should be suppressed if you fired at them before they disembarked. Also there should be some error from turning.

But the overall effect doesn't seem strong enough.

 

Improved in version 136521

AI suppression increased during bailout from damaged or immobilized vehicles

[inlesco 233]

 

Improved in version 136521

AI suppression increased during bailout from damaged or immobilized vehicles

 

I think there've been many situations in combat scenarios when ambushed  crew member forgets his weapon

because he wants to get out of the vehicle ASAP. Also, the rate at which the crew gets out is very unrealistic.

 

For a realistic rate of disembarking from, say, a tank, see Saving Private Ryan Tiger scene - when Tiger's one of the tracks'

goes dysfunctional and it takes time for the crew to even glance out of the tank crew entrance hole.

 

That's some general thinking. Surely, it's harded to implement all of this into game code. Thanks for taking the time with it ;)