devilslayersbane 28 Posted February 10, 2015 As far as the engagement range of weapons goes, the AI should be aware of their weapon's maximum engagement range (i.e. around 600m for most standard service rifles) however, the chance that they would engage at this range should be very low, probably less than 10%. Most engagements happen at 300m or less, with only autoriflemen, MG teams, and marksman/sniper teams being well enough equipped to engage outside of that. That being said, engagements on standard infantry squads between 300-600 meters should result in a return fire action, while the squad leader orders most of the men to retreat and flank. The only ones that would be left firing ideally would be the autoriflemen who would be providing suppressing fire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullhorn 18 Posted February 10, 2015 I think you're mostly missing the point. In reality, an M4 is 'effective' to 500m without scopes, but in reality nobody is going to sit there and shoot potshots at each other from 500m away. Issue with AI is its reaction. Too often I see the AI do their crouch-prone-stand dance in the middle of an open field or just lay prone in the open. AI's code should be modified to prioritize moving away from point of engagement. It doesn't even matter if it's moving to the right direction or not, it should MOVE. In its current state, fighting AI is similar to fighting target practice dummies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killzone_kid 1331 Posted February 10, 2015 Any feedback and opinions about engagement ranges, success rates, differentiation with FoV (optics), etc. are of course welcome! Should the engagement range depend on weapon attachement used, mainly the scope zoom? AI with iron sights should tend go for CQB for example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GottyPlays 10 Posted February 10, 2015 And this is downright disastrous! They should engage at 800m with no hesitation, nor matter their sights. It should just be an area target with abysmal accuracy.Did you guys ever notice how EVERY single A2 AI mod, without fail, increased AI engagement ranges dramatically. Hell, it was usually in the first few lines on the feature list. i am sorry but, no. just no. it's pointless to engage at that range also, i would like to ask if vanilla ai can still engage choppers or jets and kill the pilot in 1-shot? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oukej 2911 Posted February 10, 2015 Should the engagement range depend on weapon attachement used, mainly the scope zoom? Currently it does. also, i would like to ask if vanilla ai can still engage choppers or jets and kill the pilot in 1-shot? It's still possible, especially when the aircraft is flying towards the unit. Nevertheless a moving target increases the AI's aiming error quite significantly so it shouldn't be a common sight. But in general it's not a good idea to get too close to the enemy with a vulnerable aircraft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Variable 322 Posted February 10, 2015 Added: Detection of bullets flying close to unit Yay! (Engine) Suppression is coming! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twisted 128 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Yay! (Engine) Suppression is coming! epic news. marksman mod seems to really be prioritising some long longed for things. So can we access the detection of close bullets as well for other purposes? Edited February 10, 2015 by twisted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enex 11 Posted February 10, 2015 Don't expect it tomorrow though "longer-term AI development" :bounce3: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bouben 3 Posted February 10, 2015 I think you're mostly missing the point.In reality, an M4 is 'effective' to 500m without scopes, but in reality nobody is going to sit there and shoot potshots at each other from 500m away. Issue with AI is its reaction. Too often I see the AI do their crouch-prone-stand dance in the middle of an open field or just lay prone in the open. AI's code should be modified to prioritize moving away from point of engagement. It doesn't even matter if it's moving to the right direction or not, it should MOVE. In its current state, fighting AI is similar to fighting target practice dummies. Good point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oukej 2911 Posted February 10, 2015 So can we access the detection of close bullets as well for other purposes? Except of FSM? Most probably not rly, there won't be an universal (any unit) eventhandler for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr. hladik 231 Posted February 10, 2015 > Added: Detection of bullets flying close to unit please note, it is not yet configured Also anything that is possible, will be skipped (friendly units, vehicles, non-local units, etc...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeyCat 131 Posted February 10, 2015 Great news about upcoming flyby bullet detection for AI! Since you are in the middle of Marksman development I wonder if we will see any changes/improvements to AI's ability to spot/detect you in concealment? I know you know this already but staying hidden is a critical thing for marksmen/snipers and the ghillie suit have no/little effect on the AI at close/mid ranges. It works much better in A2:OA where you actually can stay hidden (if not moving) in tall grass even if AI walking by very very close. /KC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2nd ranger 282 Posted February 10, 2015 Added: Detection of bullets flying close to unit Yay! (Engine) Suppression is coming! Hopefully it really is for suppression and not just basic AI reaction. Being able to actively suppress AI would drastically change the way this game is played. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chortles 263 Posted February 10, 2015 Expect the worst (which is still a net improvement), hope for the best... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bouben 3 Posted February 10, 2015 Hopefully it really is for suppression and not just basic AI reaction. Being able to actively suppress AI would drastically change the way this game is played. And then AI dynamically popping up from behind obstacles...I keep dreaming :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seba1976 98 Posted February 10, 2015 And then AI dynamically popping up from behind obstacles...I keep dreaming :-) A simple change would come in handy here: make the AI go prone when under fire, even when they've been given de order to change their position to crouch. It's been useless since OFP because of that. If you tell them to crouch, they will die before disobeying you. You see, they do obbey you when they want to. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bouben 3 Posted February 10, 2015 A simple change would come in handy here: make the AI go prone when under fire, even when they've been given de order to change their position to crouch. It's been useless since OFP because of that. If you tell them to crouch, they will die before disobeying you. You see, they do obbey you when they want to. :) That would not be sufficient unfortunately. You would have AI going prone in situations when it is better to run fast (bCombat AI mod has this problem). You would also have AI going prone when they just should lean back behind a corner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seba1976 98 Posted February 10, 2015 That would not be sufficient unfortunately. You would have AI going prone in situations when it is better to run fast (bCombat AI mod has this problem). You would also have AI going prone when they just should lean back behind a corner. Let me rephrase that: Allow AI to auto change to lower profile stances, when a player commander have ordered them to crouch. In other words: An order to crouch, should not prevent the AI unit to go prone to avoid being killed, it should only change their default stance to crouch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bouben 3 Posted February 10, 2015 Let me rephrase that: Allow AI to auto change to lower profile stances, when a player commander have ordered them to crouch. In other words: An order to crouch, should not prevent the AI unit to go prone to avoid being killed, it should only change their default stance to crouch. I see. I agree with what you want but it is a separate thing that would not solve what I mean. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Coulum- 35 Posted February 11, 2015 DATAAdded: New danger cause (dcbulletClose) to danger.fsm ENGINE Added: Detection of bullets flying close to unit Wow. was not expecting this at all. But now its really got me excited for marksman. I am interested how/if you devs plan on further utilizing this. I won't get my hopes up, but this could be the start of something I have been wishing/harping on for ages - so long I had simply given up on it. Can't wait. I am sure there are alot of coop players with similar feelings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullhorn 18 Posted February 11, 2015 What surprised was that such a feature WASN'T in the game up until this point. :| Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2nd ranger 282 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) At least in Arma 2 there was a very basic suppression functionality, albeit based on nearby hits rather than rounds passing nearby. Never understood why it was removed. Hopefully that effect will be brought back to complement the new detection. Edited February 11, 2015 by 2nd Ranger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twisted 128 Posted February 11, 2015 suppression is a staple tactic that really would be a smart addition to the game. hope thats what this bullet passing detection is for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Variable 322 Posted February 11, 2015 Wow. was not expecting this at all. But now its really got me excited for marksman. I am interested how/if you devs plan on further utilizing this. I won't get my hopes up, but this could be the start of something I have been wishing/harping on for ages - so long I had simply given up on it. Can't wait. I am sure there are alot of coop players with similar feelings Exactly how I feel about this. Arma cannot be considered an infantry sim without being able to suppress the enemy, because suppression is the basis for most if not all infantry tactics. If done properly, this will be the highlight of the marksman DLC for SP and Coop. Coulum, in the meantime, we use TPWCAS to suppress the AI. At least in Arma 2 there was a very basic suppression functionality, albeit based on nearby hits rather than rounds passing nearby. Never understood why it was removed. Hopefully that effect will be brought back to complement the new detection. A dev once said this is a configuration overlook, however, it was not fixed since. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cthulhu616 3 Posted February 11, 2015 DATA Added: New danger cause (dcbulletClose) to danger.fsm ENGINE Added: Detection of bullets flying close to unit When does this trigger??? tried it by shooting at some enemies in the distance (~300m) but they still don't recognize me or the bullets (e.g. by changing behaviour)... they only return fire when one of their group is hit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
