AI Discussion (dev branch)

[fabrizio_t 58]

Yes, if you separate them and give each soldiers his own "move" command and "hold fire" on top of it, everyone, apart from machinegunners, would move quite rapidly. You can try that.

More in my workaround suggestion.

It works somewhat okayish when i hold fire and move every unit individually. Unfortunately that does not work at all in practice, since noone has time to micromanage every unit when they are trying to move units in combat.

bCombat does exact that, by script ;)

It works also for AI led units.

Basically it checks whether some unit has another unit as formation leader.

If so, given some criteria (e.g. distance from destination, leader's speed, ...), unit is ordered to move directly to planned destination.

This way all units can move individually, faster and with better usage of cover.

It's a good solution as long as distance to destination is reasonably short, since on longer distances groups would lose cohesion due to units moving on their own.

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

;2677828']@ NeMeSiS

This would be needed a squad leader command:

Ref:

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Mission_Editor:_Waypoints#Combat_Mode

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_AI_Combat_Modes

---

To solve / at least mitigate the unresponsive subordinate AI' date=' BI would just have to make careless (like) mode available to the group leader.

A further improvement if one could set the speed the units should move, like one can with scripting or in the editor.

Probably it would be even a better default to have AI to auto switch to "careless" (like) when ordered into a vehicle or a medic to heal someone

to do this straight away.

Best case one would want to be able to mix it, like if the AI should use cover or go the most direct route when retreating/moving.

Sometimes i think that a single low-level "forceMove" scripting command would solve alot of the issues.

Good for withdrawal / retreat, regrouping, movement to cover, faster group movement, ...

I hope BIS will implement it some day.

Edited April 29, 2014 by fabrizio_T

[Bouben 3]

bCombat does exact this, by script ;)

It works also for AI led units.

basically it checks whether some unit has another unit as formation leader.

If so, given some criteria (e.g. distance from destination), unit is ordered to move directly to planned destination.

This way all units can move individually, faster and with better usage of cover.

It's a good solution as long as distance to destination is reasonably limited, since on longer distances groups would lose cohesion due to units moving on their own.

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

Sometimes i just think that some really low-level scripted move command would solve alot of the issues.

I hope BIS will implement that some day ...

Fabrizio, I tried with bCombat to retreat my group while under fire and it did not work. I suppose that is because of all the suppressive fire mechanics in your mod, that prevents units to move, right?

[fabrizio_t 58]

Fabrizio, I tried with bCombat to retreat my group while under fire and it did not work. I suppose that is because of all the suppressive fire mechanics in your mod, that prevents units to move, right?

Retreating is a different thing. The basic problem is that vanilla AI does not permit units to disengage effectively. They keep locking on targets.

Try giving group BLUE combatMode (never fire), that switches bCombat return fire logic off, but i'm confident it won't solve the issue as it's underlying.

EDIT: now i'll stop derailing this thread ;)

Edited April 29, 2014 by fabrizio_T

[Bouben 3]

Retreating is a different thing. The basic problem is that vanilla AI does not permit units to disengage effectively. They keep locking on targets.

Try giving group BLUE combatMode (never fire), that switches bCombat return fire logic off, but i'm confident it won't solve the issue as it's underlying.

EDIT: now i'll stop derailing this thread ;)

It is not really derailing because we are searching for solution (or workaround) for the AI retreating (and obeying "move" - and other - orders).

If there is a mod that would do at least what "my" workaround suggested things would be more playable. I would, of course, prefer BIS to do it properly...

[fabrizio_t 58]

It is not really derailing because we are searching for solution (or workaround) for the AI retreating (and obeying "move" - and other - orders).

If there is a mod that would do at least what "my" workaround suggested things would be more playable. I would, of course, prefer BIS to do it properly...

Me too.

I'll share my humble experience: the way i was able to get units ( i mean AI led units ) consistently retreat / flee was:

* Give the whole group a BLUE combatMode (so they ignore targets)

* Ungroup all units (important, or group will try to flee ... in formation :confused:)

* disableAI "target", "autotarget", "fsm" for each units (not really sure this helps)

* forcespeed 10 each units (so they move faster)

* issue a domove command to each units (so the move somewhere)

Not exactly the most straightforward and practical solution.

Edited April 29, 2014 by fabrizio_T

[Bouben 3]

Me too.

I'll share my humble experience: the way i was able to get units ( i mean AI led units ) consistently retreat / flee was:

* Give the whole group a BLUE combatMode (so they ignore targets)

* Ungroup all units (important, or group will try to flee ... in formation :confused:)

* disableAI "target", "autotarget", "fsm" for each units (not really sure this helps)

* forcespeed 10 each units (so they move faster)

* issue a domove command to each units (so the move somewhere)

Not exactly the most straightforward and practical solution.

Interesting.

Do you think it would be possible and functional to "pack" it under a single "Retreat move" command and make an addon from it? Do you think it would work?

[k0rd 3]

Interesting.

Do you think it would be possible and functional to "pack" it under a single "Retreat move" command and make an addon from it? Do you think it would work?

does re-enabling AI "fsm" work for units? I was under the impression that once the core fsm would exit, you might not be able to reload it (i don't know where i got that impression though)

I'm asking because you wouldn't want the unit to be braindead after the forced retreat

[das attorney 858]

does re-enabling AI "fsm" work for units? I was under the impression that once the core fsm would exit, you might not be able to reload it (i don't know where i got that impression though)

I'm asking because you wouldn't want the unit to be braindead after the forced retreat

No that's fine mate - you can disable/enable at will with no problems.

[Alwarren 2767]

While we're at it, can we finally get working helicopter pilots? Pilots that know how to slow down a chopper without going into orbit for braking, and can actually discern that there already is a chopper on a helipad and pick another one? Seriously, chopper AI is almost as bad as driving, and to be honest, it is more than a bit cumbersome to get an insertion with two choppers work without incident, without crashing, or one of the dismounting units being crushed to death. I know you can record a vehicle, but this doesn't work on dedicated servers (see here) since it requires a graphical display for timing. Which makes me extra cranky since it is about the ONLY possibility to get AI helicopters to work reliably.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Alwarren

[Varanon 892]

Pilots that know how to slow down a chopper without going into orbit for braking

Made a ticket for this long time ago.

[foffy 58]

Did the AI get bugged recently? Been trying the Combined Arms showcase and the AI keeps wanting to disembark...even though we have to fly somewhere.

I turned off all mods in case something has overwritten the core AI, but no. Very strange jazz.

[lexx 1392]

Yes, it's since the 28th dev branch update. I am wondering why nobody is writing about it, as the game now is totally unplayable when anything vehicle is invovled.

[barbolani 198]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right thread and / or this things have been said other times but..

I find the vehicles pathfinding in urban enviroment is wrong. They tend to get stuck in corners. I cannot make any city mission with land vehicles.

Other: CQB inside buildings, you may pass in front of an enemy's nose and won't attack. This experience I had with UPSMon + Fortify parameter, but I think is not related...

[oukej 2911]

Yes, it's since the 28th dev branch update. I am wondering why nobody is writing about it, as the game now is totally unplayable when anything vehicle is invovled.

We are on it with prio. We are sorry about any inconvenience. Any further info (video) will be helpful.

[foffy 58]

We are on it with prio. We are sorry about any inconvenience. Any further info (video) will be helpful.

You can test it yourself; try the Combined Arms or Armed Assault showcase missions. The former has a helicopter that doesn't move, and the latter causes the APC to literally spin in circles when it gets to the drop off point.

What is strange is this seems to be an issue only to AI drivers where a human is in the vehicle. I've had to revert off of the Dev branch to actually play these things. :P

Has something been changed regarding AI in relation to human players in the last few updates?

[oukej 2911]

This was a nasty one. It appeared only on Steam Development branch, not in our internal build. Also the newly deployed Stable branch patch does not suffer this problem. The fix of the issue with move waypoints (affecting also majority of the playable content) will be on the Development branch with the next update. We are sorry again for the inconvenience.

[lexx 1392]

Nice. Thanks for the fast fixing. :)

Well, all in all it's what the dev branch is for, no? To see and fix critical bugs before they hit the next full patch release.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Interesting.

Do you think it would be possible and functional to "pack" it under a single "Retreat move" command and make an addon from it? Do you think it would work?

It's feasible, the really complex part is defining WHERE units should retreat, as this implies both topographic + path analysis and enemy position evaluation.

[foffy 58]

This was a nasty one. It appeared only on Steam Development branch, not in our internal build. Also the newly deployed Stable branch patch does not suffer this problem. The fix of the issue with move waypoints (affecting also majority of the playable content) will be on the Development branch with the next update. We are sorry again for the inconvenience.

Thank you guys for the very hasty response. Stay based. <3

[Bouben 3]

It's feasible, the really complex part is defining WHERE units should retreat, as this implies both topographic + path analysis and enemy position evaluation.

Isn't the explicit coordinate given by a player which is choosing the exact position on the map?

Or are you talking about the logic that AI use when choosing a best path to a given location?

[valnwt 11]

Maybe this has already been answered here, but will there be any tweaking in AI skill (mission designer level) in the showcases and campaign? Although i think it's realistic results (showcase infantry 5 vs 8-14? ei) when all your squad dies.

But just so you can complete it, not that much fun standing alone against all ei in almost every mission.

[oukej 2911]

Despite the fact there's not a single use of word "AI" in http://www.bistudio.com/english/company/developers-blog/460-arma-3-roadmap-201415 there's no need to worry. The AI will have to face new situations (and our engine masters great challenges), but the mentioned overall ongoing effort is still on and we'll try as much as we can to give AI the needed love, fixes, improvements, tweaks and polish ;)

Maybe this has already been answered here, but will there be any tweaking in AI skill (mission designer level) in the showcases and campaign? Although i think it's realistic results (showcase infantry 5 vs 8-14? ei) when all your squad dies.

But just so you can complete it, not that much fun standing alone against all ei in almost every mission.

What difficulty have you played it on?

[valnwt 11]

Veteran "Game" settings, Normal AI setting on stable build.

Correct me if im wrong, but the AI setting should not affect the outcome of a mission? Only how fast the AI can shoot their enemy. And that the outcome now depends on how the mission designer sets the skill on each individual AI.

Hence why i thought it might be tweaking in mission designing level that was needed.

Or, well. Relized this sounds abit weird. Maybe outcome of a firefight.

Edited May 1, 2014 by DanielV

[Tonci87 163]

Despite the fact there's not a single use of word "AI" in http://www.bistudio.com/english/company/developers-blog/460-arma-3-roadmap-201415 there's no need to worry. The AI will have to face new situations (and our engine masters great challenges), but the mentioned overall ongoing effort is still on and we'll try as much as we can to give AI the needed love, fixes, improvements, tweaks and polish ;)

What difficulty have you played it on?

You mean something like slingloading things? I don´t know how well that worked in ToH, could the AI do it in that game?

[Bee8190 10]

Great to hear Oukej, heads up's always appreciated