Discussion on "Axed" Features

[Wolfstriked 11]

as someone mentioned in this thread and many others ...

one of biggest timesink setbacks was rewrite of PhysX v2 into v3 and reconfigure everything accordingly (vehicles, ragdoll etc)

the one country incident wasn't good for 'speedy' development either

so quite lot of 2012 was spent on ''no new features'' tasks ...

these who keep mentioning the 3D editor,

this unfortunately comes from over enthuiastic 1-2 commentaries but it nevers was promised as 'set in stone' (at max. more of fixed up old one 3D scripted editor)

advanced complex flight model and full working JAVA people considered as autogranted just because it was in Take On Helicopters ...

and these features weren't flat out denied when asked about more of maybe or more likely... (that was the main mistake)

weapon resting, mantling, collisions (this is definitely very good feature missing and let say design preparation mistake was done there)

* might happen soon or post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

weapon bidpods, tripods and similar adjustable parts (was put aside due to other priority work)

* might happen post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

shooting from vehicles (ye i would like this myself and again it was 'put to side to work on other stuff' instead of giving it priority)

* might happen post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

moving in vehicles (i always commented as nice to have but highly unlikely to happen)

* might happen post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

MP GUI redesign and MP improvements (lot of things are WIP)

* might happen prior or at release or soon after, but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

... yet, You may know (majority of these who read what i post on BIForums or communities / forums / skype / irc ...)

that i'm big supporter of any logical, doable, important improvements for MP, gameplay and ease to use, flexibility, usability and LESS frustration with the game as whole

many will say we can't deliver or failed to deliver all what was mentioned or promised ...

as Joris clearly stated, features we can't make in good / great quality shall be put aside and done when we can deliver

theoretical example : it's better to have fully working resting and bidpods 2 months after release, than buggy barely working on half weapons today

for these who think about some missing units, remember alpha/beta don't have all content of full game ...

in the end it saddens me when someone says you weren't informed ... what i can and i could i informed about ...

Thank you so much for this well written post.;) No way to hold you to anything yet it shows that you are viewing our requests with an eye towards improvements at some point.

Just one question though is "could we get the location to adjust sway so VTS can mod this final part into the his weapon resting mod?

[NeuroFunker 11]

this reminds me on stalkers story, it came a different game, then we saw in 2003-04. Can you name all the things were axed?

Its actually a normal process in game industry, to "axe" things. First thing is to plan a lot of neat features, but second is to implement them. Devs are very time limited now, cause they are very close to realease, so they in need to go radical, and making priorities, if they can implent this or that, or they can't.

As for me, ony really few things are bother me right now: why the audio engine is still so quite outdated, which can't produce some of century old but sweet features like reverberation, and good surroubd audio?

Second are bipods, which are there, but here either. Hopefully we have them working before release, and third, why wind can't affect ballistics? Look at arma 2 now, wastland, dayz, all thus huge rage shots. This shouldnt be so simple as it is right now, so if the wind affects our bullets, only few can be really good at long range sniping.

ALSO IMO, tis is a bad side of the medalie, when devs are so open to it's community. The more open the devs are towards community, the more community starts to beg and moan. It really gets sometimes to far.

---------- Post added at 21:11 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ----------

as someone mentioned in this thread and many others ...

one of biggest timesink setbacks was rewrite of PhysX v2 into v3 and reconfigure everything accordingly (vehicles, ragdoll etc)

the one country incident wasn't good for 'speedy' development either

so quite lot of 2012 was spent on ''no new features'' tasks ...

theoretical example : it's better to have fully working resting and bidpods 2 months after release, than buggy barely working on half weapons today

for these who think about some missing units, remember alpha/beta don't have all content of full game ...

in the end it saddens me when someone says you weren't informed ... what i can and i could i informed about ...

what about, for my audiophile ears requested feature, reverberation/echoing filtering for audio? Is that something unreal to have?

[Ash712 1]

Good to hear a response from the devs, and very much appreciated as well. ;)

So what happened to the new "Satchel Placement" feature? (attaching them to vehicles/objects)

It was shown in one of the first ArmA 3 vids from back in 2011, so I expected it in Alpha, or Beta. :confused:

reference video...

[DarkDruid 96]

Just one question though is "could we get the location to adjust sway so VTS can mod this final part into the his weapon resting mod?

configFile >> CfgImprecision

So what happened to the new "Satchel Placement" feature? (attaching them to vehicles/objects)

It was shown in one of the first ArmA 3 vids from back in 2011, so I expected it in Alpha, or Beta. :confused:

reference video...

That was scripted prototype. Unfortunately this feature wasn't fully implemented and it doesn't have priority now.

[sofianebilal 10]

the problem here is that many things must be set, but will not be!

that is why many people are not satisfied !

many problem persists but nothing is set !

[TSAndrey 1]

Speaking of that video above, what happened to the cool "pick up stuff" animation we could see in the video (1:16)?

EDIT: Wait a minute... Did he just use disguise in that video?! Holy shit, that's awesome, what happened to that?!

[linkinx 1]

Guys, you keep asking , what happened to this? what happened to that?, and the game is not even finished yet, do you know of a roadmap that other people do not? then make those questions when the full game is out, and those wanted animations are not in it.

[Wolfstriked 11]

configFile >> CfgImprecision

Thanks DarkDruid.This is big news.:)

[gossamersolid 155]

Guys, you keep asking , what happened to this? what happened to that?, and the game is not even finished yet, do you know of a roadmap that other people do not? then make those questions when the full game is out, and those wanted animations are not in it.

You must be new to the whole video game beta thing of modern day gaming...

[krazikilla 5]

....

Just one thing to mention - we are aiming for a consistent "vanilla" gameplay (you know the phrases about removing the rough edges and stuff). That means we won't take current favourite modifications (I hear the screams of ACE and ACRE a lot) and implement them to core gameplay. Let the players, who like those splendid mods, use them and give credits to their developers, who rightfully deserve that. We simply don't want to take credits for work of others :icon_twisted:

Wouldnt it be the biggest credit for some modders to be in the actual "vanilla" game? Just ask some of them and put some credits in. It would be a big step in the right direction, also would bring some positve press about the game i can imagine. You are talkin about vanilla, ye, but dont you think that "vanilla" should be expended a bit from game to game a bit? Its not like vanilla in arma2 means vanilla in arma3. Some new features are already vanilla in arma3 and some more should be added as vanilla in arma3.

Modable is all nice and fun, but the problem is that there are some nice "modded features" which should be in a 2013 game as CORE feature. Its quite sad that one has to find the right servers with the right addons enabled to be able to shoot from a littlebird side-bench or rest your MG on a sandbag MG Nest..

I really appreciate your awesome work gentleman, but there is just so much more to get out of this game with a little, let me say diffrent thinking and it makes me somehow sad that some nice things are basicly thrown away because of some "company internal, political desicions.."

Just PLEASE think about it and - Give logical, new, core content a chance.

Edited July 10, 2013 by KrAziKilla

[HKFlash 9]

EDIT: Wait a minute... Did he just use disguise in that video?! Holy shit, that's awesome, what happened to that?!

Axe power.

[enex 11]

@dwarden

I failed to express the wish for you guys to have more experienced coders which

would able to realized all wishful ambitious goals ; )

[Varanon 892]

Guys, you keep asking , what happened to this? what happened to that?, and the game is not even finished yet, do you know of a roadmap that other people do not? then make those questions when the full game is out, and those wanted animations are not in it.

Alpha/Beta is for collecting feedback. If you complain once the game is out, you're a bit late to the party.

---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

EDIT: Wait a minute... Did he just use disguise in that video?! Holy shit, that's awesome, what happened to that?!

I would guess that it would still be possible to script that in the current engine with setCaptive or creating a new OPFOR group.

[papanowel 120]

They said they would not include that because of AI issue, game braking and Geneva convention. :rolleyes:

We decided to limit this only to uniforms affiliated with a player's side. Although we were considering allowing the player to don any uniform at the start of development, it appeared that such generality would bring some very complex issues with AI and multiplayer rules. Also, it is against the Geneva Convention.

Everything was said here.

[DarkDruid 96]

there is just so much more to get out of this game with a little, let me say diffrent thinking and it makes me somehow sad that some nice things are basicly thrown away because of some "company internal, political desicions.."

This isn't just company political decision. I have tried one of stance indicator mods made by community some time ago. It worked pretty well, but it was badly optimized. Very complex missions were broken if this stance indicator was enabled, because there wasn't enough time in each frame for all scripts (mission + stance indicator). And that was just one community-made feature. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of mods which are better optimized. I know that. But that bad optimization wasn't caused just by script structure and used functions.

Features implemented (partialy or absolutely) in the engine have better performance, that's the fact. Sometimes is difference just small and time required for implementation of that feature into engine isn't acceptable. But in many cases is difference significant. That's one of the reasons why is so many features implemented in the engine. That stance indicator mode was an extreme, but we can't just simply take a mod and put it into the game. Overall performance of the game would be a lot worse. We can use mods as an inspiration, but code itself usually doesn't help us at all.

[froggyluv 2135]

Poor BI -on one hand you've got masses demanding optimization at all costs and on the other people demanding added mods that could make it worse.......no mercy! Do it nao :mad:

[Masharra 10]

Since it is a sandbox will we be getting reasonable documentation to go along with it? I know we already have lots but still so much is missing and so much is new.

Also ty for the communication it has allowed us to understand and better empathize with the team and its problems.

[ProfTournesol 956]

We can use mods as an inspiration, but code itself usually doesn't help us at all.

That's why the universal answer cannot just be "mods will do it". Some of those "axed/most wanted" features must be included in the vanilla game.

Edited July 10, 2013 by ProfTournesol

[zukov 490]

weird thread, someone forgets the fact that now Arma 3 is playable and funny, the pistols are usable, CQB is real, reload animations are real, wonderful veichles, tons of soldier classes, right amount of weapons (fully animated)

[Tonci87 163]

as someone mentioned in this thread and many others ...

one of biggest timesink setbacks was rewrite of PhysX v2 into v3 and reconfigure everything accordingly (vehicles, ragdoll etc)

the one country incident wasn't good for 'speedy' development either

so quite lot of 2012 was spent on ''no new features'' tasks ...

these who keep mentioning the 3D editor,

this unfortunately comes from over enthuiastic 1-2 commentaries but it nevers was promised as 'set in stone' (at max. more of fixed up old one 3D scripted editor)

advanced complex flight model and full working JAVA people considered as autogranted just because it was in Take On Helicopters ...

and these features weren't flat out denied when asked about more of maybe or more likely... (that was the main mistake)

weapon resting, mantling, collisions (this is definitely very good feature missing and let say design preparation mistake was done there)

* might happen soon or post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

weapon bidpods, tripods and similar adjustable parts (was put aside due to other priority work)

* might happen post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

shooting from vehicles (ye i would like this myself and again it was 'put to side to work on other stuff' instead of giving it priority)

* might happen post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

moving in vehicles (i always commented as nice to have but highly unlikely to happen)

* might happen post release , but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

MP GUI redesign and MP improvements (lot of things are WIP)

* might happen prior or at release or soon after, but i don't want promise it until i know we can deliver :)

... yet, You may know (majority of these who read what i post on BIForums or communities / forums / skype / irc ...)

that i'm big supporter of any logical, doable, important improvements for MP, gameplay and ease to use, flexibility, usability and LESS frustration with the game as whole

many will say we can't deliver or failed to deliver all what was mentioned or promised ...

as Joris clearly stated, features we can't make in good / great quality shall be put aside and done when we can deliver

theoretical example : it's better to have fully working resting and bidpods 2 months after release, than buggy barely working on half weapons today

for these who think about some missing units, remember alpha/beta don't have all content of full game ...

in the end it saddens me when someone says you weren't informed ... what i can and i could i informed about ...

Sorry Dwarden, I really didn´t mean to offend you!

I know that you (and not only you) are very close to the community and that you do your best to keep us informed. What I tried to say is that we do get the information from you guys but often without the backgroundstory, aka why something doesn´t work as designed. Or why suddenly all names are made up etc.

But I really appreciate the honesty.

Not every Studio would admit that Feature XY won´t make it into the release build and in the end the customers are really angry.

Your Post is a perfect example on how to do it right.

I really hope that the Beta feedback is of some use and that you can deliver a solid release build. Then you guys can start to work on all that "might happen post release" stuff ;)

[twisted 128]

Since arma3 has been out it's occupied most of my increasingly rare having time. I enjoy it and can't fathom going back to arma2. The reason is because even in its alpha and then beta state it accomplished a lot of the devs shared vision for the game. Some huge steps forward have been made (and a couple steps back). Personally, I hope bis probably will keep on developing and adding to the game, but it really helps to have updates like in this thread and a couple others.

[Dwarden 1125]

quick question for dwarden!

are the different shading will present a day on the game?

thank you for your answer! :)

i'm not sure if i understand this question :confused:

It was mentioned in one of the

, though (highlights at the beginning of the presentation, 18 seconds into the clip). Not wanting to imply that these features are set in stone, but it was more than 1 or 2 enthusiastic commentaries.

It's clear that features change and things fall by the roadside during development, though. I still think, though, that communicating is much more important than keeping silent. Even if you might raise false hopes. Everyone can understand that in theory, reality is like theory, but in reality isn't.

sometimes one says in euphory what is then axed ;( ... trust me i would love to give you all (double time for mappers) great realtime 3D editor for everything ;)

what about, for my audiophile ears requested feature, reverberation/echoing filtering for audio? Is that something unreal to have?

it's still in queue ...

@dwarden

I failed to express the wish for you guys to have more experienced coders which

would able to realized all wishful ambitious goals ; )

never enough of them, i wish that too :)

Since it is a sandbox will we be getting reasonable documentation to go along with it? I know we already have lots but still so much is missing and so much is new.

Also ty for the communication it has allowed us to understand and better empathize with the team and its problems.

documentation will be added, revealed, improved ... keep reminding us (from time to time) and demanding more on that part ;)

[Varanon 892]

sometimes one says in euphory what is then axed ;( ... trust me i would love to give you all (double time for mappers) great realtime 3D editor for everything ;)

I know ;)

Hmm... can we add buttons to the editor ourselves ? I have this crazy idea in my head....

[ProfTournesol 956]

I know ;)

Hmm... can we add buttons to the editor ourselves ? I have this crazy idea in my head....

So that we can add the infamous undo button ;)

[sofianebilal 10]

yes sorry !

my question is , what about "Deferred shading"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_shading

Is there a chance that one day this feature will be in the game ?

thank you :)