Discussion on "Axed" Features

[Masharra 10]

I think statements that Arma3 is worse than Arma2 are wrong and not helpful. I don't think there is any part that is more "dumbed down"

I agree somewhat with your first statement in that I believe when people say that they mean in worse in different areas, not as a whole. (though depending on what one considers important it can make it mean as a whole.)

No part that is more dumbed down? Medical system? Sunlight? AI that is in some ways worse than current beta patch of a2? The inventory carry system? hands are unable to be shot now?

As for not helpful. Its called feedback actually I may be derailing the thread.

-"Axed" feature?

Unable to be shot in hands.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Masharra

[wiresnsnakes 1]

I always heard how realistic the game is. Now after all this years they didnt archived the most most most elemental thing in terms of realism, the environment.

There is simply no excuse that the environment differs so much at different ranges, besides deliver good graphics at least near the player to sell it.

No matter how limited the hardware is, it is possible to archive that, that the place around doesnt differ that much from the one 500 or 1000m away.

Two totally different environments are ok, if it isnt gameplay relevant. But in this case its simply offputting immersion-wise and I cant take it serious as a mil- or whatever sim. The gameplay potential is very limited in terms of stealth.

The tech for shadows at high distances or a solution to archive the effect on the enviroment and unit is there, and crisp texture and show grass and clutter, too.

Its 2013 and the adverised graphics hide the extreme low detail and the high effects on gameplay.

That they have the ressources to put in 3d-scopes is a joke, sorry.

No arcade-shooter archived such an offputting effect on me. Everything else can be so great and realistic as it is, but Im irrateted they didnt do anything to fix this. And for real: After all this years and in 2013, for a PC-only-game it should be possible.

[tremanarch 6]

the most significant change is the whole Infantry feeling of ArmA 3.

while some people think its too arcade (mainly cause of run and turnspeed which may even not be final) the absence of clunkyness makes it feel soo much better. Even playing straight deathmatch games on close maps (unthinkable in ArmA II) makes sense and fun and doesnt feel so much different to typical deathmatch games, in fact you have additional tactical options, like stances / etc

this change alone makes ArmA 3 superiour to all prior versions in my eyes! Even in-door fighting could now be done.

Of course a project like ArmA is never finished.

For you people I guess you have to understand, that makign such a big game is much effort. And all the stuff that is already done by mods - regardless how necessary it is or may be - gets a secondary priority, is really reasonable.

yeah I am among the people that would love to have weapon rest - but we can get it with ACE for example, so why force it upon the devs if they can do other stuff in the meanwhile - even if this other stuff is in your eyes unnecessary like underwater combat.

arma opens up and adds functions with diametral increase - and mods take care of some of very important features that - i give you that - should be implemented in vanilla /like weapon rest / radios etc).

[ziiip 1]

The thread should start by listing the axed features.

[zooloo75 833]

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one that feels the exact same way about ArmA3.

The graphic improvement is definitely a plus, but other than that, there is no other improvement. New models != New Game.

So many features were promised, yet we have less stuff than in ArmA2 - and even worse. A lot of requested features from the community are very do-able, such as weapon resting (so many people have scripted it throughout the years with ease). IDK what BIS' expectations are for this game, but I expect it to surpass the previous titles and actually fix almost all the old *VERY OLD* issues with the engine - if not now, then when?!

One day these issues need to be fixed and features need to be added, and so far not much is being delivered -- saying "It's Beta bro" doesn't do any good -- people said "It's Alpha bro" and we still have the same bugs and no improvement.

Performance is worse - especially in multiplayer; there is less content; features from previous games that have survived into ArmA3 are now dumbed down or broken; new technology is poorly implemented.

The game feels like it was targeted for a completely different audience. The reasons I got into ArmA was for its realism, authenticity, simulation, creativity, mod-ability, and community. In A3 I get creativity and community and mod-ability (which is still great).

Underwater gameplay is almost useless IMO. There's 1 small sub, a few small boats, and as confirmed a while back by BIS, no large ships of any kind. The naval aspect of the game is entirely ignored. What am I supposed to do underwater? It does leave more possibilities for modders, but it contributes hardly anything to core gameplay. I'm sure hoping that "It's just Beta bro" is actually going to live up to its meaning. I have a feeling that the next words will be either "The game just came out", "They're going to fix it", or "Wait for ArmA4".

I mean, what is/was the developers goals for ArmA3?

Edited July 10, 2013 by zooloo75

[Smurf 12]

I was searching for features announced in 2011 (nitpicking, because I'm an ass) but then I started to see all those old screenshots and now I'm trying to figure out what happened.

Content wise, nothing new since then. Tweaks , added details and interior for some (:j:) vehicles but most, if not all, the things we have now in beta are present on those first screens. Sure we haven't see all content and many things appeared in screens\videos long ago and never since then but they had a lot of assets from the start.

PhsyX had a basic implementation from the start aswell, in 2012 they rewrite the thing to take advantage from a new version of PhysX. Nice.

Alpha started and vehicles were kind of shameful, got better later on. With the Beta, similar problems with vehicles flipping, suspension, gearing; Matter of tweaks, but they have to be done yet. On jumps, lunar gravity still applies.

Helicopter physics were bad, then good and now are very bad. ToH FM wich was a possibility from the start now is almost rulled out even after release, no big deal IMO but got many people angry.

Infantry have better animations all around but we are still tied to the same system and its limitations. Initial plans for weight\fatigue\encumberance seemed to be more ambitious, now I don't know what to expect, DIY or leave it to mods it seems. Gone along with the bad negative acceleration for mouse is the limited turning for heavy weapons and the limitations of using long weapons indoors <= Insane improvements on pistols for nothing?

Medical system? Gone.

Lighting was almost redone after Alpha release. Some changes in shadows were made but seems it was dropped (hard shadows vs the much better soft shadows). Deferred shading was a possibility for after release and it seems to be ditched now.

In the sound department, I have no clue on what is going on. Radios are MUCH better, real time filtering is WIP but what happened to:

vehicles estimated to use around 50 samples for their engine and exhaust, and 20 samples for the wheels on differing terrain.

It doesnt sound that way, really. Placeholders? Could be. Anyway, the game now is not on par with current titles and mods.

AI could be described as erratic at best. No big improvements at first sight and some legacy problems are still there, namely, the pistol bug, the unnecessary prone, short range clueless soldiers.

Of course the game have improvements over the previous games in the title but comparing to other games (not even AAA ones), A3 is catching up (recon by Devs) and I'm not sure it will do it.

In the middle of the development they had a problematic lead change (with all its implications), postponed due PhysX, DayZ happened (resources went back to support A2:OA, media all around, DayZ SA), Ivan and Martin imprisoned in Greece (ongoing) and the Steam as the only way to go.

Mind you, we are talking about a game that was suppose to be released a year ago with more features (probably half backed)! What the hell happened?

With that said, I was surprised by the Alpha release at first, then buckets of cold water and now I'm waiting for the full release to see what will happen and for mods.

[mr burns 131]

The weirdest of all things with ArmA3 is that age old bugs keep reapearing, like non steerable parachutes which was exactly the same at ArmA2 release and later got fixed.

Why do they start over with every new game? It´s not like they´re having too much development time at their hands, judging from the fact that an "axed features" thread is needed.

On top of that, we get to see pretty much useless features being bumped in priority (E3 quote: "and here you can see fish"), while most of MP still suffers from (again age old) bugs & locality inconsistencies.

edit:

I was searching for features announced in 2011 (nitpicking, because I'm an ass) but then I started to see all those old screenshots and now I'm trying to figure out what happened.

DayZ, and that limnos incident.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Mr Burns

[Masharra 10]

I hear common things.

Its a alpha, its a beta, wait for release, wait for patches, wait for expansions, wait for mods. Has wait for arma 4 popped up yet?

My god I wish the people at the hospital where I work were so willing to accept things like that.

3 years is a long time actually considering they were working off of a fairly mature engine. I know there were problems with greece, but that is 2 developers (who now work on DayZ anyways if I'm not mistaken), not the entire development team.

[Azzur33 1]

So ...what were the features that BIS did promise "over the years" and which were "axed"?

Or is this conversation about the community wishlist.

TOH flight model was kind of "promised", yes. But I wouldn't know what I'm missing, I haven't played TOH.

I haven't seen promises about "weapon resting", shooting out of vehicles/moving around inside vehicles, or detailed vehicle interiors for All models. Were they promised/"confirmed" features?

Where i can find the list of the "axed" features? Is there any?

Yes, I would like to see tank interiors, although they are not at all important or necessary.

Sure I would like to have underground structures, but I wouldn't want to see confused AI around them.

A completely new command/menu system.. yeah. So ...how should it be then? Does anybody have an idea of a better system, ready to be implemented to the game?

And AI behaviour adapting to Every Possible situation on the game, behaving exactly like human players, that would be something. Maybe in 20 years it could be possible.

There are some wished features that Should be in the game though. Not sure if they will be. Maybe.

-Better, more realistic wounding system.

-Better vehicle damage system.

-Some fine-tuning for the ragdoll.

...and?

[Masharra 10]

So ...what were the features that BIS did promise "over the years" and which were "axed"?

Or is this conversation about the community wishlist.

TOH flight model was kind of "promised", yes. But I wouldn't know what I'm missing, I haven't played TOH.

I haven't seen promises about "weapon resting", shooting out of vehicles/moving around inside vehicles, or detailed vehicle interiors for All models. Were they promised/"confirmed" features?

Where i can find the list of the "axed" features? Is there any?

Yes, I would like to see tank interiors, although they are not at all important or necessary.

Sure I would like to have underground structures, but I wouldn't want to see confused AI around them.

A completely new command/menu system.. yeah. So ...how should it be then? Does anybody have an idea of a better system, ready to be implemented to the game?

And AI behaviour adapting to Every Possible situation on the game, behaving exactly like human players, that would be something. Maybe in 20 years it could be possible.

There are some wished features that Should be in the game though. Not sure if they will be. Maybe.

-Better, more realistic wounding system.

-Better vehicle damage system.

-Some fine-tuning for the ragdoll.

...and?

In a way it turned into a mixture of the two.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119512-Arma-3-Confirmed-features-info-amp-discussion

A list of axed features hasnt been made to my knowledfe.

Ill list some but I got to take a shower or I will rage.

The game will feature an improved wounding system (no specifics for as of yet)

Improved MP interface

Improved command interface

[pettka 694]

I have seen medical system mentioned all the way around, but I would dare to say that it is nothing worse than the A2 one, the scripted module solution from A2 still works in A3 and quite a lot of features has been added. But that are mostly the things that go unnoticed like you no longer suffer damage of head if hit to the legs and so on. Just a teaser of things to come (already tested but didn't make it to the patch), this has been improved a lot recently and added for example possibility to one-shot with pistols if the shot goes to head :icon_twisted:

Just one thing to mention - we are aiming for a consistent "vanilla" gameplay (you know the phrases about removing the rough edges and stuff). That means we won't take current favourite modifications (I hear the screams of ACE and ACRE a lot) and implement them to core gameplay. Let the players, who like those splendid mods, use them and give credits to their developers, who rightfully deserve that. We simply don't want to take credits for work of others :icon_twisted:

[TSAndrey 1]

Improved MP interface

Dwarden mentioned a MP GUI redesign, but he said it was WIP and it probably won't be finished by the final release.

[twistking 204]

Just one thing to mention - we are aiming for a consistent "vanilla" gameplay (you know the phrases about removing the rough edges and stuff).

Thank you for your feedback. Please understand that i and most of the guys around have great respect for your work, even if we are constantly complaining.

I would be happy with "consitent vanilla gameplay" and having mods for that extra realistic experience, but i have a serious question. It may sound sarcastic, but it is not mean to sound mean in any way:

Concerning my example of lack of gameplay mechanics.

What arma still lacks are gameplay mechanics and features: Looking through the titan's (guided missile) sight and having the white diamond pop up immediately is not a gameplay mechanic, it is the game asking you: "Do want to make this tank explode? Left click for yes!"

Would you call the current implementation "consistent gameplay"?? Well it is consistent, because it works somehow. But i would dare to say, that it is not really gameplay, but a lack of gameplay. Hope you know what i mean.

(In this case ACE mod did not just improve a mechanic through more realistic or complex gameplay, i would argue, that ACE mod made the missile launcher a true mechanic in the first place. But i would expect BIS to deliver at least coherent "gameplay" which for me means "decent" gameplay mechanics at least. These could still be improved with mods, making them more complex, realistic or whatsoever.)

Edited July 10, 2013 by twistking

[Ash712 1]

I miss the following cut features :

*Fast roping

*Towing vehicles

*Underground structures/caves

*3D Editor <--This most of all

*Placing satchels ON vehicles/objects

(^where is this feature? It was one of the first features shown back in 2011)

I still would like those missing features to end up in the game...oh well :(

ArmA 3 is a MAJOR improvement in so many areas over ArmA 2, and I'm happy with it now, and hope it improves until release.

I can't wait to see what DLC/Expansions BI comes up with next year for the game ;)

[-ghost-tf 12]

I have seen medical system mentioned all the way around, but I would dare to say that it is nothing worse than the A2 one, the scripted module solution from A2 still works in A3 and quite a lot of features has been added. But that are mostly the things that go unnoticed like you no longer suffer damage of head if hit to the legs and so on. Just a teaser of things to come (already tested but didn't make it to the patch), this has been improved a lot recently and added for example possibility to one-shot with pistols if the shot goes to head :icon_twisted:

How about:

Punishment if shot/injured in the legs.

Bigger aiming shake if shot in the arm/hands (should not be able to simply fix by holding breath).

An unconcious/wounded state.

Dying from bleeding out.

If it doesnt have these things or better, I would say it is worse then the arma 2 system?

Atm the medic is useless. Everyone can use medkits, and once you use a medkit you are magicly back to full health, even worse you can do this unlimited times after eachother. Meaning you could play forever as long as you kill an enemy and pick up his medkit.

[zooloo75 833]

I have seen medical system mentioned all the way around, but I would dare to say that it is nothing worse than the A2 one, the scripted module solution from A2 still works in A3 and quite a lot of features has been added. But that are mostly the things that go unnoticed like you no longer suffer damage of head if hit to the legs and so on. Just a teaser of things to come (already tested but didn't make it to the patch), this has been improved a lot recently and added for example possibility to one-shot with pistols if the shot goes to head :icon_twisted:

Just one thing to mention - we are aiming for a consistent "vanilla" gameplay (you know the phrases about removing the rough edges and stuff). That means we won't take current favourite modifications (I hear the screams of ACE and ACRE a lot) and implement them to core gameplay. Let the players, who like those splendid mods, use them and give credits to their developers, who rightfully deserve that. We simply don't want to take credits for work of others :icon_twisted:

This is nice to hear. The one thing that sets apart you guys apart from most developers is that you're an actual part of the community :)

I do like the new hitPoints for units. I made functioning bodyarmor for my Life mission with the new commands that gave torso protection to the player if they worse a vest. The community isn't trying to bash on BIS or the game - I know I speak for everyone when I say that I admire BIS for their work and involvement in the community, but don't want to see ArmA3 go down the wrong path.

[pettka 694]

Thank you for your feedback. Please understand that i and most of the guys around have great respect for your work, even if we are constantly complaining.

I would be happy with "consitent vanilla gameplay" and having mods for that extra realistic experience, but i have a serious question. It may sound sarcastic, but it is not mean to sound mean in any way:

Concerning my example of lack of gameplay mechanics.

Would you call the current implementation "consistent gameplay"?? Well it is consistent, because it works somehow. But i would dare to say, that it is not really gameplay, but a lack of gameplay. Hope you know what i mean.

I would dare to say that it is sort of work in progress, I have attended some design discussions about it and it may be changed, but no promises. It depends on way too many factors :icon_twisted:

[Masharra 10]

With regards to med system please take a look at this ticket http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8047

[twistking 204]

Thank you very much for that insight.

no promises.

Roger that! :)

[pettka 694]

How about:

Punishment if shot/injured in the legs.

Bigger aiming shake if shot in the arm/hands (should not be able to simply fix by holding breath).

An unconcious/wounded state.

Dying from bleeding out.

If it doesnt have these things or better, I would say it is worse then the arma 2 system?

Atm the medic is useless. Everyone can use medkits, and once you use a medkit you are magicly back to full health, even worse you can do this unlimited times after eachother. Meaning you could play forever as long as you kill an enemy and pick up his medkit.

I beg to differ, sir, I have just ran genuine OA without any mods to give it a try with "player setdamage 0.9";

OA: Increased weapon sway, running and sprinting is still possible, any further damage means I'm dead with one of pre-made death poses (no unconscious)

A3: Increased cursor size, drastically decreased movement speed, no running possible, any further damage means ragdoll

Using medikit heals you to 80 % of full health at most unless you are a medic and that could be set by mods to different value. We actually provide wider scale of abilities for modders than we did before :icon_twisted:

[Tonci87 163]

Hey pettka, I also really resopect you guys and your work, and I know that programming something can be a real pain in the ass but please help me to understand the following:

Where you guys simply to overambituous when you started on A3 or has something seriously hampered the development (apart from that greece thing)?

Is it possible that those "axed features" will make it into the game after release? Are you guys willing to not only improve the released game but also to add new stuff to it?

Why did you choose to invent new names for everything? Not a single Dev came forward and said why. Are you trying to stay away from licence fees? Are there even licence fees for weapons in video games?

[Masharra 10]

I think we are talking about Vanilla OA with the medical system module. Something "most" consider the "lowest" standard.

[Tyl3r99 41]

Hi Pettka,

what about the dismissed waypoint? will that be improved? for example in A2 they just wondered off completely out of the area you would wish them to stay in lol (possibility of creating a radius within that waypoint they stay in?)

and will they do more random things? (more casual and laid back)

and how is the in editor loadout editor going? any news?

[gossamersolid 155]

That means we won't take current favourite modifications (I hear the screams of ACE and ACRE a lot) and implement them to core gameplay. Let the players, who like those splendid mods, use them and give credits to their developers, who rightfully deserve that. We simply don't want to take credits for work of others :icon_twisted:

I see what you're trying to say, but what basically ends up happening is that BIS seems to just simply say "Oh you want X feature? Well we'll just let mods fix it". DayZ has an advanced radio system. You guys work for the same company, share the code? People can always still use ACRE if they want.

Mods aren't a solution for some of these issues, especially considering BIS' lack of addon download/sync system built into the game. It makes it an absolute nightmare to attempt any sort of mods on a public server (except for DayZ).

We shouldn't have to rely on 3rd party tools for this part either. It's 2013, you guys should be looking into a system for this (if you haven't already).

I know you guys are excited about the steam workshop mission downloads/uploads, and that's a good start, but it's far from what's needed right now on that front.

[Tyl3r99 41]

I see what you're trying to say, but what basically ends up happening is that BIS seems to just simply say "Oh you want X feature? Well we'll just let mods fix it". DayZ has an advanced radio system. You guys work for the same company, share the code? People can always still use ACRE if they want.

Mods aren't a solution for some of these issues, especially considering BIS' lack of addon download/sync system built into the game. It makes it an absolute nightmare to attempt any sort of mods on a public server (except for DayZ).

We shouldn't have to rely on 3rd party tools for this part either. It's 2013, you guys should be looking into a system for this (if you haven't already).

I know you guys are excited about the steam workshop mission downloads/uploads, and that's a good start, but it's far from what's needed right now on that front.

agreed, this game needs to be "less" dependant on 3rd party mods, infact if i were honest.. there shouldnt have to be 3rd party fixes if the game already has it done to its best.