Fatigue effects

[Varanon 892]

IMO, you get tired way too fast and recover even faster.

Agreed. The penalties should be harder as well, IMHO.. ACE took quite some time with the balancing of the fatigue effects, but in the end, they did get it right.

[metalcraze 290]

I'm pretty sure those guys must have taken a vehicle, I'm pretty sure you cannot carry like 10 missiles...? I didn't see anywhere where the OP said he ran up to the top of the hill (or wherever he was).

He explained how to do it. Drop FAK, take Alamut and a big backpack and you can fit in 9 missiles.

But carrying even 2 missiles while running around with a rifle and a launcher is already stretching it.

Running up the hill wouldn't change a thing. He would get pointless blur but what can a blur or aiming shake do to a weightless tab-locking fire & forget launcher? Nothing.

Remove useless blur. We need real encumbrance punishment.

Edited July 2, 2013 by metalcraze

[.kju 3245]

class RPG32_F: CA_LauncherMagazine

{

displayName = "RPG-42 Missile";

descriptionShort = "Type: RPG-42 missile<br />Rounds: 1<br />Used in: RPG-42";

mass = 50;

};

class RPG32_AA_F: RPG32_F

{

displayName = "RPG-42 AA Missile";

descriptionShort = "Type: RPG-42 AA missile<br />Rounds: 1<br />Used in: RPG-42";

};

Obviously the mass seems low or the capability way too good for such an AA missile.

Edited July 2, 2013 by .kju [PvPscene]

[metalcraze 290]

Also you can carry 5 missiles for Titan (1 in launcher, rest on you), together with 10 mags for GM6, together with GM6, together with Titan itself. And a pistol. And a FAK. And magazines for pistol.

What if it's a mission for 60 people - should a mission maker put only 2 AA missiles in a whole mission to make sure one guy will not care more than he should?

As for "forced run" - I'm forced to run with 80 kgs on my back... after sprinting ~100m - oh what a punishment.

Punishing game mechanics must be put into place, not useless post processing effects. And not mission makers changing their missions to fit BIS design shortcomings.

Changing configs to increase mass isn't a solution either. Because there's still no punishment for carrying too much. You will just change how many of which item a guy can take but not the weight he can carry with or without punishment. He will take 2 missiles and suddenly he can't carry anything else because the abstract weight slider hits the limit? Not even a mag for a pistol? But that's back to ArmA2's inventory basically.

[Mr. Charles 22]

I've looked at it and can only confirm it. While the warhead is pretty short, it's quite thick, so (purely looking at size, not weight) you should be able to put about 4-5 into your bagpack.

[Fuse 1]

This is not true. Significant harm can be caused only by high-frequency flicker.

Otherwise, it is recommended a careful selection of eyeglasses or contact lenses.

I think those of us who get nausea and/or headaches due to the blur would disagree.

[afp 1]

After seeing that internals, it is pretty obvious that the inventory, volumes and masses need some rework related to the fatigue system. A Stinger missile is about 10Kg and its pretty long, its out of question to be able to sprint with 10 of those on your back, not even 5... Their number should be limited by backpack volume, before weight affecting the fatigue.

[chortles 263]

That's not a Stinger missile that we're talking about....

[afp 1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were talking about a missile/rocket that doesn't exist? I was talking about a known real missile with real weight, those in game cannot be very much different to a real one, right?

here's a Stinger AA missile: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Launched_FIM-92A_Stinger_missile.jpg

Edited July 2, 2013 by afp

[liquidpinky 11]

We need real encumbrance punishment.

There are penalties enough, you lightweight lovers need to try playing maybe a few good long games as a fully loaded unit to properly experiencing the difference between light and full.

It is like virgins giving their opinion on sex at the moment.

Some of the fatigue S&M punishment die-hards wont be happy until those of us, who like to turn up at a remote job prepared, get the birch for daring to carry more than a rifle and five mags.

If you are unit that predominantly operates on foot, like myself, you will use all means at your disposal to get to the AO as quickly and in as battle ready a condition as you can. That involves the use of sprinting, jogging and maybe even resting if you haven't learned how to keep the fatigue under control.

Yes, fair enough that some of the loads need to cater for the actual physical shape making things difficult over the actual weight itself but those large missiles if properly secured in a rucksack over four just haphazardly slung in a rucksack also make a difference in how you would handle it in RL.

Weight does need to factor into movement speed, I use a tool rucksack for work and it weighs in at around 40kg before having to carry any of the other equipment at the same time and I don't think I could run full speed, let alone sprint with it. So go on and reduce the speed a little sure.

The Jog should be left alone though as it at least needs to be possible to actually get somewhere before I die of old age and I have never had bother doing it loaded up with tools and equipment while getting to remote sites in RL.

Not saying I didn't stop for a quick rest once there and enjoyed the non-blurred view of the often beautiful locations while recovering enough strength to lift a screwdriver. Weakness after the event was more of a problem and I think weapon sway would more accurately depict this.

Less blur, more sway and weight playing more part on speeds above the combat jog pace are acceptable and more realistic in my opinion from both in game and real life experience.

[metalcraze 290]

Dude that's a lot of text for counter-arguing something I've never argued for.

I use a tool rucksack for work and it weighs in at around 40kg before having to carry any of the other equipment at the same time and I don't think I could run full speed, let alone sprint with it.

So why are you even disagreeing with me then? No really:

You do realize that half of a slider in the game clocks in at 40-50kgs already? And yet even with 100 kgs which, apparently, is a full loadout I can still sprint, I can run forever and I don't need to stop and take a break whatsoever simply because all I need is to go prone and aiming shake will be gone. And it's exactly the same with minimum loadout.

And these 100 kg loadouts result in one-man-armies running around stuffed with missiles, sniper rifles and FAKs, taking on a world alone, never needing to stop or call for medic.

Just calculate:

In game GM6 is something like 16 kgs, Titan launcher is ~12, each missile is 11-12 (multiply by 5) and that already goes over 80 kgs. And yet you can ALSO carry 11 mags for GM6, a pistol, 3 mags for it, a FAK and a bunch of grenades. And body armor that gives you them pockets is not even factored in. And even then the weight slider still has space to go!

And there's NO punishment for this. You can sprint for ~100m with all that and run forever. Don't you think you shouldn't be able to even move with such load?

Why is it OK for an arcade shooter like Stalker to prevent you from even moving when you go over 60kgs but in ArmA3 taking overpowered loadouts that make no sense no matter how many "this is a game" excuses casual players throw should be allowed?

Edited July 2, 2013 by metalcraze

[Varanon 892]

That's not a Stinger missile that we're talking about....

No, it isn't.

For giggles, I tested in game what the thing weights. There are two approaches to it: First, every item has a mass value. For example, the mk20 has a mass of 40. The original F2000 weighs around 3.5 kg, so I assume 40 means 4.0 kg (if you think that's wrong, ignore the mass numbers and completely go with the 3.5 kg number). So there's two possible base values, 4 kg or 3.5 kg. In any case, checking the load value added to the total weight of a mk20 is 0.02. 1.0 is the full load. So assuming that the mk20 weights 3.5 kg, we get tot a total load of 175kg, and going with the mass value, assuming it's kg x 10, we get to a maximum load of 200kg.

So an Arma 3 soldier can carry from 175 to 200 kg. Impressive.

So, let's look at the Titan. A titan AA missile comes in at 0,06 load. Which is about 10 kg, for only the rocket. The mass value of the Titan AA is 130, which would be 13 kg ? Anyway, let's go with the idea that the mk20 is as heavy as a F2000.

The Titan AA launcher weighs the same as the missile. So the total weight of the loaded weapon system is 20 kg. Compare to a stinger (complete system) of 15 kg.

No, we're not talking about a stinger. We're talking about something even heavier

Edited July 2, 2013 by Varanon
Clarification on the mass value

[liquidpinky 11]

Dude that's a lot of text for counter-arguing something I've never argued for.

Just singling you out as one of the birch mob. :P

And there's NO punishment for this. You can sprint for ~100m with all that and run forever. Don't you think you shouldn't be able to even move with such load?

Meanwhile mister no load can sprint for about 300 or more. He can go prone quicker, get up quicker. Roll longer. The list goes on. There is more than just this running here and there involved to it.

Why is it OK for an arcade shooter like Stalker to prevent you from even moving when you go over 60kgs

Guys are programmers, probably haven't even lifted 60kgs in their life. Probably can barely pick their coffee mug up when it is full. 60kgs is manageable.

but in ArmA3 taking overpowered loadouts that make no sense no matter how many "this is a game" excuses casual players throw should be allowed?

No such thing as overpowered loadout not making sense, it is called arriving prepared for a job. The first time after driving 200 miles to get close to a site that you then hike for miles to reach and realise you left just one thing you needed in the vehicle and have to walk back to it, well it is usually the last time you do it and make sure to bring all the shit you need and more. Usually as much as you can carry.

Currently my favourite loadout is around 60kg-ish. I have cut back on load to be more effective, who said the in game fatigue had no value( I think you will find it was probably you ;) ), although my gear is practically full on all parts. I still carry toolkit, two AT missiles, one loaded, some explosives and a satchel a good few 5.56 mags, Small Titan and Tavor. Means I don't have to rely on someone else to do things for me, this pretty much reflects how I operate in my own RL job.

I will still play team player and repair vehicles at any opportunity, revive other players at any opportunity and generally assist in taking objectives to the best of my ability.

Just don't expect me to go skipping hand in hand across the fields towards the AO with you or other players, if that is how you like to play and carry gear for each other then fair enough.

Nothing gets on my tits more than being stood next to a radio tower thinking to myself "wish I had some explosives", bad preparation like that in my RL job would probably cost me it at some point too.

By all means lower the carry limit, probably wont effect me now anyway as fatigue has already done the trick and made me consider my loadouts better and I have already adjusted to suit.

[chortles 263]

No, we're not talking about a stinger. We're talking about something even heavier

That bit about "not a Stinger" was in regards to 'volume' as in weapon/munition dimensions -- as we noted in the other thread re: our differing 'results' -- I'm not taking issue with your findings re: 'weight'.

[-ghost-tf 12]

Hello people,

I decided to do a small test with arma3's fatigue system:

Light soldier, no equipment at all (other then a map, radio, compass and a watch). Weight: ~1kg

00:00:42 - Soldier starts slowing down from sprinting to jogging speed.

00:01:41 - The blur effect starts.

00:04:06 - The soldier reaches the end of the runway.

While the soldier is standing still at the end of the runway it takes 11 seconds to recover from the blur effect, after those 11 seconds I could sprint again.

Normal soldier, basic/default rifleman gear (Rifle + 10 mags, 1 pistol + 3 mags, few grenades/smokes and a first aid kit). Weight: ~25kg

00:00:26 - Soldier starts slowing down from sprinting to jogging speed.

00:01:01 - The blur effect starts.

00:04:28 - The soldier reaches the end of the runway.

While the soldier is standing still at the end of the runway it takes 19 seconds to recover from the blur effect, after those 19 seconds I could sprint again. Also note that it is very easy to aim as long as I hold my breath (even while im standing).

Heavy soldier, aka rambo loadout (Rifle + 7 mags, pistol + 3 mags, Titan MPRL launcher + 5 AT missiles, 2 smokes and 5 grenades). Weight: ~70kg

00:00:16 - Soldier starts slowing down from sprinting to jogging speed.

00:00:38 - The blur effect starts.

00:04:31 - The soldier reaches the end of the runway.

While the soldier is standing still at the end of the runway it takes 17 seconds to recover from the blur effect, after those 17 seconds I could sprint again. I only have to go crouched (prone even better) right click to hold my breath and my aiming is perfectly fine.

I decided to do the same tests in ACE and somewhat compare the results because:

ACE took quite some time with the balancing of the fatigue effects, but in the end, they did get it right.

The "light soldier" in arma 3 switches to jogging speed to early, especially considering he has no gear/equiptment at all, like people have already said before, these soldiers are trained for this stuff and should be able to sprint longer then 42 seconds (was about 300m ingame). The blur effect kicks in way too early (1minute 41 seconds). And also the recovering of the blur effect is too fast (11seconds).

In ACE the light soldier (same weight and equipment) can sprint much longer, its hard to see the transition from sprinting to jogging because of the clunky animations. Still the soldier can sprint/run for 2 minutes and 25 seconds after which the first effect starts, the heartbeat. The second effect is the blacking out, which can be compared to the current blur effect in arma3. In ACE the blacking out starts after 4 minutes and 58 seconds, which is a more acceptable time for any "heavy effects" to kick in. After 5 minutes and 40 seconds you fall down on the ground and cant run any further, I guess you could call this the forced walk. Recovery of the blacking out takes ~25 seconds (heartbeat still continues for a while).

The "normal soldier" in arma 3 switches to jogging speed to early, especially considering the sprinting is not too much different from the jogging, atm he can sprint for 150meters that is not much. If it was a very fast powerfull sprint then 100-150m would be acceptable. The blur effect kicks in way too early (1minute). And also the recovering of the blur effect is too fast (19seconds).

In ACE the normal soldier (same weight and equipment) can sprint longer, the soldier can sprint/run for about 2 minutes and 15 seconds after which the first effect starts, the heartbeat. The blacking out starts after ~4 minutes and 20 seconds. After 4 minutes and 50 seconds you get the forced walk. Recovery of the blacking out takes ~35 seconds (heartbeat still continues for a while).

The "heavy soldier" in arma 3 should not be able to sprint at all with 70kg of equipment, he should either be forced to walk, or limited to jog only with proper punishments starting after short time of jogging. Atm the biggest problem is that you run with jogging speed forever with no proper punishment at all, aiming gets easily fixed by holding your breath which shouldnt be possible to do properly after running/sprinting a long distance.

I personally like the blur effect, even tho I find it very very annoying. But that is good, if it was not annoying I would not mind at all carrying 70kgs, so this effect is a good punishment and forces you to manage your equipment and plan your movement (resting along the way, making transport more important etc). But the problem is the effect starts way too early and needs to be tweaked a bit for the weight you are carrying etc, if it gets properly tweaked it should not be a problem for people that get a headache from it etc. Because for example the ACE blacking out effect, I am playing ACE missions weekly with my community (mostly without transport just foot patrol missions) and I never even get the blacking out effect because I never cross the line of being an one man army. So unless you are that guy it should not be a big deal, but if this blur does get removed, I would not mind at all as long as they replaced it with better punishments.

Sorry for the wall of text, and I hope that the fatigue system gets "fixed".

---------- Post added at 00:29 ---------- Previous post was at 00:28 ----------

needed posts >1 to post video.

[dsi24 12]

300m sprint in 42 seconds? That's only 10 seconds off the pace of an Olympic sprinter...

[HKFlash 9]

300m sprint in 42 seconds? That's only 10 seconds off the pace of an Olympic sprinter...

Only the olympic carries almost no weight

[Smurf 12]

Arma is not in scale with the real world.

[-Coulum- 35]

Arma is not in scale with the real world.

WHAT???:confused:

I agree that merely taking away an overburdened player's ability to sprint after less distance/time is not harsh enough. All speeds should be effected by weight from the get go OR all speeds should slow down due to fatigue, with heavier people fatiguing faster, thus slowing down faster. Not being able to sprint is hardly a big deal. It actually took me several years to even figure out there was a sprint mode in arma 2 and in those years I did absolutely fine/it wasn't a big disadvantage.

[xyberviri 1]

The fatigue in this current build is just stupid, you get tired too quickly.

Some people do not like playing 1 mission for 10 hours, the mission designers need to be able to change the way fatigue is so that if they dont want the fat kids playing video games running like marathon then they can adjust it. Right now the only way to do this is to create some scripts that bog down the engine with monitoring or just disable fatigue alltogether.

Right now i really would rather this just be in ACE.

[liquidpinky 11]

The fatigue in this current build is just stupid, you get tired too quickly.

Some people do not like playing 1 mission for 10 hours, the mission designers need to be able to change the way fatigue is so that if they dont want the fat kids playing video games running like marathon then they can adjust it. Right now the only way to do this is to create some scripts that bog down the engine with monitoring or just disable fatigue alltogether.

Right now i really would rather this just be in ACE.

Carry less shit, ditch the 50 cal for a lighter primary rifle and so on.

The Lynx being the heavist of the rifles.

If you load up the editor in a mission with VAS or create your own and try out all weapons and check each ones weight out, including launchers.

Be smart and beat the fatigue. ;)

And see my post above, I believe in going in prepered but I also think there should be fair penalties for loading yourself up to the max. Within reason OFC.

[Anachoretes 10]

The fatigue in this current build is just stupid, you get tired too quickly.

I hope you never try sprint. This process devastates you muscles in 15-20 seconds.

But you can just run a long time at the moment. Even more than is possible with a typical soldier gears.

.

[tonygrunt 10]

Please make screen effects like blur and flashing borders optional.

They are migraine inducing at least for me, making the game unplayable.

[Anachoretes 10]

Blur and low-frequency can't produce migrane.

They can irritate when the head already hurts.

Then someone complain of glaucoma caused by grass in the distance.

Huge recoil causes Parkinson's disease.... etc.

It looks suspicious. As hypochondria.

[tonygrunt 10]

Thank you doctor, I have this headaches for the last 20+ years and I had no idea what it was.

Next time I can't see from an eye or I am praying on the toilet it's good to know that it's all in my mind.

I am going to inform my parents and my siblings that they are hypochondriac too, we thought it was just running in the family but Anachoretes just solved it.

Bravo!!!