Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[pils 49]

I'm going to be the "I KNOW A GUY..." guy for a second and say that my Arma buddy, who is active military, says the sonic cracks are excellent. I'd have to ask him if he thinks they should be sharper or whatever, but he was pretty impressed by them.

Here are the links again:

The sonic cracks sound like there is someone dropping a plastic pen on concrete ground right beside you. It's ... ridiculous.

Here some examples how it approximately should sound:

And the by far best example here. If you are in a hurry, only watch this:

[megagoth1702 252]

Here are the links again:

The sonic cracks sound like there is someone dropping a plastic pen on concrete ground right beside you. It's ... ridiculous.

Here some examples how it approximately should sound:

And the by far best example here. If you are in a hurry, only watch this:

Define "approximately" please, because this is no where enough of a statement. Maybe you mean the right thing but saying "this is how it approx should sound" without defining what exactly you mean by that and posting videos with crappy sound is bad. The videos show that the crack and the enviromental response are very bright, sharp sounds. That's about all you can take from these videos. The audio is heavily compressed in it's dynamic range, the response from the environment is very loud while the crack itself is very quiet. This creates a very "loud feeling", with a long, very loud tail after the crack, but this is not reality at all. This is because the microphones in these cameras are not made to record high quality sound, but rather produce an equally loud volume for the signal to be transmitted over network. Kind of like this.

See how the red line defines, where the max volume is? You don't get to experience the real volume differences in the crack itself and the environment, which is very important! The best recordings I have found so far are these:

https://soundcloud.com/therecordist/supersonic-subsonic-bullets

As you can see (and hear) the crack itself is very loud compared to the tail, which is realistic. In a quiet scenario you would hear the tail, yes. In a loud scenario with ppl shooting all the time you would really only hear the cracks with a tiny tiny bit of tail. This is why having proper transients in sounds is important so that they mix well later on instead of creating a wall of noise.

This is bad.

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This is good.

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[bullhorn 18]

Reported this yesterday and it's just a needle in a haystack full of hundreds of thousands of other needles. :(

Basically there's only 2 states for listeners, "inside" and "outside", disregarding the position of the shooter.

There should be 4 states, "inside, shooter outside", "outside, shooter outside", "inside, shooter inside" and "outside, shooter inside"

[joostsidy 685]

@goth: The shorter explosion sounds sound very good. you really know your sounds and explain it well. You demonstrate convincingly that improvements to the sound can reflect the physical processes behind the sound better. Your suggested improvements sound both more authentic and more awesome to me. In my opinion, ignoring these 'rules' can lead to a feeling 'over-processed' sounds. The lesson from this: Less is more? :-)

[x3kj 1247]

yes, new explosions definitely lack some high frequencies

[cyruz 103]

@Megagoth

You going to write up your trip to BI?

[pils 49]

Define "approximately" please, because this is no where enough of a statement. Maybe you mean the right thing but saying "this is how it approx should sound" without defining what exactly you mean by that and posting videos with crappy sound is bad. The videos show that the crack and the enviromental response are very bright, sharp sounds. That's about all you can take from these videos. The audio is heavily compressed in it's dynamic range, the response from the environment is very loud while the crack itself is very quiet. This creates a very "loud feeling", with a long, very loud tail after the crack, but this is not reality at all. This is because the microphones in these cameras are not made to record high quality sound, but rather produce an equally loud volume for the signal to be transmitted over network. Kind of like this.

See how the red line defines, where the max volume is? You don't get to experience the real volume differences in the crack itself and the environment, which is very important! The best recordings I have found so far are these:

https://soundcloud.com/therecordist/supersonic-subsonic-bullets

As you can see (and hear) the crack itself is very loud compared to the tail, which is realistic. In a quiet scenario you would hear the tail, yes. In a loud scenario with ppl shooting all the time you would really only hear the cracks with a tiny tiny bit of tail. This is why having proper transients in sounds is important so that they mix well later on instead of creating a wall of noise.

This is bad.

||||||||

This is good.

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Ok, nice.

But the samples I've posted sound very similar to your sample, just with a bad quality and partly distorted. But you can clearly still figure out how a supersonic bullet crack would sound in reality, approximately. Quite similar to a big ass bullwhip.

I claim my samples are closer to your high end sample than anything Arma 3 delivers. Because the cracks in Arma 3 are anything but loud and powerful. They don't sound like a bullwhip, they sound - as said before - like dropping a plastic pen on hard ground.

And I guess it depends highly on the environment and on the distance the bullet is passing by and the distance between the microphone and the firing gun.

The description in your sample speaks about a suppressor being used ..? That may explain the lack of a loud gunshot sound and the very quiet tail.

---------- Post added at 12:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 ----------

By the way.

Dear audio devs, please tweak the sound effects of the large caliber projectiles for us!

In particular, the impact sounds of 30/40mm AP.

- 1st person inside a vehicle, getting shot at with 30/40mm AP -> complete lack of any feedback sound!

- In all other cases, impacting e.g. into a tank or another solid metal object -> *pling* *pling* .. *pling* *pling*, the same puny sound effect small arms projectiles have ..

A 30/40mm AP round should have a powerful sound impact sound, no matter where they impact, since there is a shitload of force transferred by those projectiles.

And they should have their own supersonic cracks.

It's really disappointing when your vehicle is getting shot at by a Marshall with its massive 40mm autocannon and all you hear is *click click* .. *click* *click* (supersonic crack) and *pling* *pling* .. *pling* *pling* (40mm projectiles impacting into the solid armor of your vehicle).

Edited May 6, 2015 by pils

[megagoth1702 252]

@Megagoth

You going to write up your trip to BI?

Yes, I am in contact with the audio lead and there is simply a lot to discuss. When I get my clearance I will post. :) No worry.

[pils 49]

While I'm already ranting, another issue.

The 35mm AA cannons still have the same sound effect since the beta. And imho, it's one of the worst sound effects in the entire game. It's ... ridiculous. Sorry.

Guys, please. That effect needs a tweak more than anything else.

Here some very bad real life youtube samples. Yea, I know. Horrid quality, distorted, compressed, blah. I don't care, it's good enough to give someone an idea about it, a general direction. That is, those guns will cause some massive noise. Of course they do, they're 35mm after all!

[CaptainObvious 95]

Thanks megagoth again, interesting stuff you posting, and well explained too so that a simple man like myself understands it too!

I really like the direction Bohemia is taking the audio at the moment, good stuff ahead.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

The explosions are missing tails, like the gun shots. Tails are important, especially regarding explosions. As explosions are quick, and the remaining sound is moving, and bouncing through the environment.

[roshnak 41]

The description in your sample speaks about a suppressor being used ..? That may explain the lack of a loud gunshot sound and the very quiet tail.

The suppressor is used to intentionally try to remove the sound of the gunshot from the recording. Since the sound of the bullet crack is what is important, they don't want other stuff interfering with that. The loudness of the gunshot in relation to the bullet crack should be dependent on the distance from the gun and the closeness of the bullet passby. In order for a video including both sounds to be useful, you would have to know the distance that the microphone was from the gun and the distance that the bullet passed by the microphone, at least.

Although, as I understand it, you should not have trouble hearing both sounds under most circumstances.

Also, I don't think a suppressor should have any significant effect on the sound of the bullet crack.

[pils 49]

Yeah, true that.

But exactly that makes it hard to compare the high end sample to the shitty samples, since they have all the loud gunshots after the crack.

But I still see them as legit. Not to take as actual samples for the game, but to give an impression and to show, the game just has them not right yet.

-----

Amazingly, these kinds of issues are extremely important on the gaming experience.

So massively important, they actually change the way I'm playing Arma.

I usually play with rather loud sound. It regularly happened to me when I still was using JSRS (was able to use ..), that I actually ducked down with my real head the moment I was being fired at.

And it automatically makes me play way more carefully. Good sound multiplies immersion.

Now with vanilla I run around like it's Counter Strike. That little bit of *click* *click*, *clack* *clack* over my head and some *pling* *pling*, *pft* pft* in front of me isn't getting me immersed.

It's not making me feel the game.

So many people and apparently also people in charge at BIS underestimate the importance of good, realistic, powerful sound, especially for a game like Arma.

The moment 40mm AP rounds are shooting over my head with a cute little *clack* *clack* and are impacting into my tank with a puny little *pling* *pling*, that's when any kind of immersion suddenly is being eradicated.

Or like the other day, playing ZERTY CTI.

Middle of the night, slight fog around the area.

I'm lying hidden on a hilltop with a laser designator, about 1500m away from the enemy base.

I order my AI to start firing 155mm artillery on their base.

Man and it looks awesome at night and with that fog, watching the shells hailing on them.

I really enjoy the graphics and great lighting.

Then a sudden thought comes to my mind.

This looks awesome, but something is not quite right.

I'm looking at the distance again.

1500m.

"Hold on, there is some big ass 155mm artillery bombardment going on in that valley down there, and I can't hear absolutely NOTHING?!"

Immersion disconnected

Edited May 6, 2015 by pils

[Brisse 78]

I'm looking at the distance again.

1500m.

"Hold on, there is some big ass 155mm artillery bombardment going on in that valley down there, and I can't hear absolutely NOTHING?!"

Immersion disconnected

I jumped into the game to verify this. I could not hear anything at 1500m. I tried a little closer and at 900m I could barely hear the 155mm artillery shells detonate.

I was in virtual reality, standing 10m from a tank with it's engine running at comfortable volume level.

[pils 49]

I jumped into the game to verify this. I could not hear anything at 1500m. I tried a little closer and at 900m I could barely hear the 155mm artillery shells detonate.

I was in virtual reality, standing 10m from a tank with it's engine running at comfortable volume level.

Jep. It's sad.

And that's one of the key issues regarding Arma 3 sound.

Not only artillery, in general. It's the case for

almost any (loud) sound effect.

Effects are not audible far enough. Not nearly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware we can't use realistic parameters in this case.

But we need the distances loud effects are being audible increased, majorly.

As far as possible.

Background noise from e.g. a firefight in the neighbouring town 1200m away or from an artillery bombardment 3000m away not only adds realism and also useful 'information'.

It's one key feature to increase that 'warfare' atmosphere.

I see an intense firefight going on in the town maybe 1200m ahead, my teammates call for help and tracers are flying everywhere.

But I can't hear nothing of the action.

Exactly something like that was audible with JSRS and I fucking loved it.

And it worked just fine?!

Why can't vanilla do the same?

We absolutely need the ranges for sound effects increased (+ new sound effects for such kind of far away sounds?).

If any possible, my wished for audible distances would roughly be:

- small arms up to .50cal: up to 1500m

- autocannons, autocannon HE shell explosions, grenades and other small explosions: up to 2000-(2500m)

- tank guns, tank shell explosions, mortars, etc. - all kinds of medium sized explosions:

up to 2500-(3000m)

- heavy artillery, GBUs:

up to 3000-(3500m)

Also heavy vehicles, helicopters and jets should be audible way further.

[megagoth1702 252]

Guys, after my trip to Bohemia all I can say right now: Believe me, the (tiny) audio team is as passionate about sound as you and me all are. Things will change and get better soon enough. :) Sounds being audible over short distances will change too. :)

[acesential 3]

Guys, after my trip to Bohemia all I can say right now: Believe me, the (tiny) audio team is as passionate about sound as you and me all are. Things will change and get better soon enough. :) Sounds being audible over short distances will change too. :)

Well now I'm incredibly excited~

[bullhorn 18]

I have to say that the new bulletcracks in 1.44 are a huge improvement compared to 1.42. I'm not worried about their progress, I think it's just a matter of time.

[pils 49]

Guys, after my trip to Bohemia all I can say right now: Believe me, the (tiny) audio team is as passionate about sound as you and me all are. Things will change and get better soon enough. :) Sounds being audible over short distances will change too. :)

That sounds awesome :)

[pils 49]

So many people and apparently also people in charge at BIS underestimate the importance of good, realistic, powerful sound, especially for a game like Arma.

That was specifically directed to the responsible people before and during the development of Arma 3, who apparently underestimated the importance of good sound, since all that what is (hopefully) currently going on should have been going on during the actual development of the game.

And the fact that the audio team is tiny (as stated by megagoth1702) is another proof, sound seems to be underestimated as aspect of a video game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's one of the 3 main aspects of a video game: Graphics, gameplay, sound.

And imho, sound is extremely important, especially for a simulation.

But I'm really glad passionate people are working on the sound of my favorite game as we speak ;)

(sorry for the doublepost)

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

New nade sounds are nice.

Difference between vanilla and dev branch. Pow. Got the throw some rgos use a gmg.

Looking forward to the changes in explosive sounds of vehicle cannons.

---------- Post added at 01:32 ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 ----------

Bressie on dev branch use a gmg, and fluff it out to 1500 M. Hopefully the other vehicle round explosives etc get the same love.

[pils 49]

New nade sounds are nice.

Difference between vanilla and dev branch. Pow. Got the throw some rgos use a gmg.

Looking forward to the changes in explosive sounds of vehicle cannons.

---------- Post added at 01:32 ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 ----------

Bressie on dev branch use a gmg, and fluff it out to 1500 M. Hopefully the other vehicle round explosives etc get the same love.

Oh yeah, that's the right direction.

Considering range, I couldn't hear the detonations at 1500m, but at 700m and the sound was really neat. Will try again with more volume tomorrow.

Oh btw, the explosions are not audible in 1st person (gunner seat). But the devs surely already know about it.

[megagoth1702 252]

Hey guys,

in this forum post you can read a document with community & my audio related questions.

[mr.g-c 6]

Good impact/close flyby bullet sounds:

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Good impact/close flyby bullet sounds:

Not good enough. Those aren't real sounds as well. I feel like we needs the closest sound to a real bullet impact as we could possibly get. Think about this. I've heard fast objects hit walls and such. Also, i've heard bullets impacting metal, third person. The sounds we have now as impact sounds are... soft. Silent enough for me to believe it's not an object moving at the speed of sound hitting another object. It other words, it does not sound convincing what so ever. I get the same feeling from that video's sound effects.