Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[pils 49]

Unless you post something recorded with professional sound equipment and not encoded all to hell then generally it's not worth wasting the time to link to Youtube footage.

Youtube breaks sounds so badly that even if you upload some A3 footage the sounds change pretty aggressively.

I know about those issues, however, I'm convinced these examples are good enough to give someone an idea how something like a supersonic bullet crack would sound like.

And I'm absolutely convinced these examples are way closer to reality than what Arma 3 is giving us as supersonic bullet cracks.

Really I don't get it. Considering how poor and partly awful the Arma 3 sounds are, I can see no way how one could criticize those youtube examples. Again, they are surely times closer to the real thing, even with their mediocre quality and distorsions.

I thouht we left the YT stuff behind?

Whatever, the only thing i can imagine comes pretty close to sonic cracks of a bullet is the crack of a bullwhip. The physics behind it are exact the same. A small object is breaking the sound barrier. Check for yourself, you will be surprised...

To reproduce a bullet sonic crack i would go for a whip. Also good working is easy and almost ridiculous: highly processed pool billard balls gitting each other :D

Exactly, and those youtube examples are times closer to a bullwhip like sound than anything Arma 3 delivers.

Take a plastic pen. Drop it onto solid ground. That is your Arma 3 supersonic bullet crack. I'll eat my hat if those youtube examples aren't way closer to the real thing.

[CaptainObvious 95]

And another person posts crappy, clipping and distorted YouTube videos as a reference.

Yet it's clearly audible that there's a powerful snap followed by an echo a little later, it's not like pils wanted Bohemia to use that particular sound as a sample in game. sheesh.

[enex 11]

I know about those issues, however, I'm convinced these examples are good enough to give someone an idea how something like a supersonic bullet crack would sound like.

And I'm absolutely convinced these examples are way closer to reality than what Arma 3 is giving us as supersonic bullet cracks.

Really I don't get it. Considering how poor and partly awful the Arma 3 sounds are, I can see no way how one could criticize those youtube examples. Again, they are surely times closer to the real thing, even with their mediocre quality and distorsions.

Ofcouse there is another school of thoughts.Different opinions, which is not inherently wrong.

The mics on these mobile phones are NOT made to record anythng with dynamics and loudness differences. They are produced to record a steady flow of information (voice) so that it can be (data)compressed and sent via network easily. That's it! They were not made to record guns, snaps, vehicles or whatever! Until proven otherwise I claim that phones & small cameras will NEVER deliver any kind of respectable sound quality that's usable as a reference for video games by a guy who has never shot rifles before. If you have shot firearms you kinda know what to expect and you fill in the blanks in the youtube videos. And even then it's still not 100% reliable information really.

[roberthammer 582]

Nice example is from Insurgency - d_prac's sound mod

his supersonic crack is much better than in A3 , it should be loud and snappy

then compare it to this >

Edited April 14, 2015 by RobertHammer

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Nice example is from Insurgency - d_prac's sound mod

his supersonic crack is much better than in A3 , it should be loud and snappy

then compare it to this >

Or we could just use HD real life example as already provided as a baseline.

https://soundcloud.com/therecordist/supersonic-subsonic-bullets

But given the fact game audio, especially in Arma, isn't anywhere near Dynamic enough, an volume is un-balanced, it's not going to sound great to begin with. All the volume is chucked all the way up almost, so everything else sounds quiet. The Sonic cracks we have now are fine until everything gets balanced, they're far better than how it was before they touched sound. But to get it to sound how it is in real life, is hard. I kinda think that only those who have been around the actual sounds, are capable of reproducing the sound, maybe. Honestly, what we have now isn't bad. Not perfection, but it's good. I wonder what they plan on improving now. I would hope tails for explosions, like impacts of HE shells, Tank rounds, Mortar rounds. Bombs dropped from planes. Idk.

[roshnak 41]

Nice example is from Insurgency - d_prac's sound mod

his supersonic crack is much better than in A3 , it should be loud and snappy

then compare it to this >

Volume aside, these all sound pretty similar to me.

[CaptainObvious 95]

What the fuck? I'm gonna go and see a doctor, 'cos either my hearing is shit, or someone else's is.

[KeyCat 131]

Exactly, and those youtube examples are times closer to a bullwhip like sound than anything Arma 3 delivers.

+1

You guys zoomed in on exactly what I missed in the current bullet crack sound. A "whipping'ish" sound instead of the current "thud thud" is what I expected.

/KC

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

+1

You guys zoomed in on exactly what I missed in the current bullet crack sound. A "whipping'ish" sound instead of the current "thud thud" is what I expected.

/KC

The whip-ish sound comes from reverb. Arma 3's current cracks do it, but not as much as it should in a lot of environments. They're probably going to work on it more, guided in the right direction, and we could hear something for more realistic than have now.

[KeyCat 131]

I'm far from an audiophile so thanks for clarifying.

/KC

[froggyluv 2136]

The original SLX had in my opinion the most satisfying deep and rich crack sound. He said he couldn't repeat after OFP for Arma because something changed in the sound engine...EAX maybe??

[danil-ch 165]

MX (With Silencer) firing sound is louder in Full Auto mode then in Semi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK1RSM8LkmM&feature=youtu.be

Katiba is missing the interior tail (Full auto mode only)

[dnk 13]

Just here to register my general displeasure with the sounds as they are currently. While I was never in love with them before, they were at least usable in that I could roughly tell direction and very rough distance from them. They were well balanced in utilitarian terms. They didn't sound terrible either, though BF4's are much better, as were a number of sound mods' for A3 (and 2).

Now? It's a total crapshoot. It sounds like I'm surrounded by a bunch of people tapping rulers on a metal table.

I also can't hear footsteps or other player-made sounds clearly.

I feel like I'm playing blind. I actually turned off the sound and didn't feel I had lost much situational awareness. People can run up to me from behind and I hear nothing, and when I get shot at I have 0 clue where it's coming from. This wasn't the case before, and it's not the case in other FPS games. I have an SBX & AurvanaLive headphones.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Just here to register my general displeasure with the sounds as they are currently. While I was never in love with them before, they were at least usable in that I could roughly tell direction and very rough distance from them. They were well balanced in utilitarian terms. They didn't sound terrible either, though BF4's are much better, as were a number of sound mods' for A3 (and 2).

Now? It's a total crapshoot. It sounds like I'm surrounded by a bunch of people tapping rulers on a metal table.

I also can't hear footsteps or other player-made sounds clearly.

I feel like I'm playing blind. I actually turned off the sound and didn't feel I had lost much situational awareness. People can run up to me from behind and I hear nothing, and when I get shot at I have 0 clue where it's coming from. This wasn't the case before, and it's not the case in other FPS games. I have an SBX & AurvanaLive headphones.

Your doing something wrong. Check your audio settings, i usually rely on sound in Urban combat, listening for footsteps to sneak around and to get the jump on someone hunting me. And please... Don't Battlefield 4 snaps, it's all Hollywood and Arcade.

[dnk 13]

Your doing something wrong. Check your audio settings, i usually rely on sound in Urban combat, listening for footsteps to sneak around and to get the jump on someone hunting me. And please... Don't Battlefield 4 snaps, it's all Hollywood and Arcade.

My audio settings are fine and worked on A3 before the update and work on BF4 currently. There's not much to get mixed up. Say what you will about the realism of BF4 effects, at least I know where they're coming from.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

My audio settings are fine and worked on A3 before the update and work on BF4 currently. There's not much to get mixed up. Say what you will about the realism of BF4 effects, at least I know where they're coming from.

The best thing BF4 gets right, is that Audio echoing. For example, a helicopter flying downtown will sound like it's all around you somewhere, until the direct source is visible, if that makes sense. But besides that, i can kinda understand what you mean, and it has to do with the fact that volumes of various things were turned up in the Update. Not sure what though, but that means that because "X" s louder, "Y" is quieter.

[Brisse 78]

I'm pretty sure DNK just have to turn the volume up. There's more dynamic range in the sound now than there was before, so turning up the volume is mandatory to enjoy the new sound environment.

The fact that DNK used BF4 as comparison more or less confirms that. BF4 has low dynamic range and can be enjoyed at low volume. I don't think that's what the Arma devs are aiming for, and I am thankful for that.

As I have said before in this thread: Spawn into a calm Altis or Stratis with nothing but the ambient sound from the environment playing. Turn up the volume until you can clearly hear the ambient sounds, like twittering birds and all that stuff. You should be able to hear all the details of the ambient sound, but still at a comfortable volume. Keep the volume at this level always from now on. Now you are ready for battle so start playing the game like you usually do. Yes, some sounds will be loud, almost uncomfortably so, but this is the correct volume. Gunshots should sound loud and scary! It's called dynamic range.

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

Played for a good six hours today. Three different servers. And showcase marksman which for me was well done and entertaining.

Some moments were great new dlc guns, bi pods, resting on a tower side rail... but other moments stood out for all the wrong reasons. and sound was at the heart of it.

Constant repetitive snap sound. Like the cheap paper snap joke banger things I throw at people. Needs more variety. And why are these snaps louder than guns?

I was shooting at some guys, a hellcat came in for a strafe, I was puzzled. My gun was louder with silencer so was the snapping sound Than the low flying hellcat and its gun run.

Got disorientation alot.

I'm guessing because of the volumes being so messed up between everything And I mean everything.

I'm hoping there is alot of improvements planned.

Can any devs talk about their experiences with sounds as they stand.

[defused 10]

new sound system suck period.

[DancZer 65]

I there a minimum distance for weapon tails?

This is an .50 cal Lynx shot from 413m(i'm standing on the hill, the shooter on the bottom of the hill) and i don't hear the weapon shot tail at all. Do you?

https://soundcloud.com/danczer/arma3-50cal-sonic-crack

[2nd ranger 282]

The only tails that are noticable past a couple of hundred meters are the urban ones. And they start to sound really ugly because it's like the shot and the tail are fighting to be heard over one another and they start to clip. The lack of reverb at distance is a problem becuase it makes firefights sound like they're happening underwater. It's one of the most dissatisfying things about sound right now.

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

The only tails that are noticable past a couple of hundred meters are the urban ones. And they start to sound really ugly because it's like the shot and the tail are fighting to be heard over one another and they start to clip. The lack of reverb at distance is a problem becuase it makes firefights sound like they're happening underwater. It's one of the most dissatisfying things about sound right now.

I was in an ao on annex ( vanilla) stable. I could been forgiven for thinking it was just myself and the squad I was with. having a small firefight with a handful of enemy.

It wasn't, it was a full server, huge firefights were taking place. with whole squads in battles all over the ao. But I wouldn't have known.

Just to be clear, I dont hate the new direction sounds are going. Just as it stands on marksman release above problems make for less immersion .

[CaptainObvious 95]

new sound system suck period.

No no no, the new system is great, it's just not yet configured as good as it could be.

[dnk 13]

I'm pretty sure DNK just have to turn the volume up. There's more dynamic range in the sound now than there was before, so turning up the volume is mandatory to enjoy the new sound environment.

It's as high as it goes without hurting my ears, as it was before. It also doesn't change the fact that I can't echolocate worth a damn now and the gunfights sound like really loud MIDI tap-offs.

The fact that DNK used BF4 as comparison more or less confirms that. BF4 has low dynamic range and can be enjoyed at low volume. I don't think that's what the Arma devs are aiming for, and I am thankful for that.

I also used A3 pre-update as a comparison. I could also use any of the sound mods like JSRS or ACE from A2/3. Or any other FPS game ever made. This is painfully bad by any standard. It doesn't even stack up with BF1942...

I know, I know, "WIP". But everything just doesn't work well right now, and it needs to be discussed. I don't want to get stuck with this for months (or forever) because "dynamic range is gud". If it ruins the soundscape, it's not. Realism forsaking all else is not a good gaming recipe. Increasing dynamic range here just means reducing all other sounds to being almost unhearable with anything other than a static non-combat scene. I don't enjoy that, and I find it unplayable, and that's coming from someone who's otherwise put up with the weak soundscape in this series for almost a decade now. Anyway, it's more involved than just "gunshots are too loud"...

And say what you will about BF4's dynamic range being unrealistic, the game sounds great, allows for great echolocation, has great environmental sound, has great EAX-type alterations, has great gunshot tails, and has amazing audio samples. You can quibble about whether the gunshots should be a bit louder, but overall it's an excellent soundscape that should be emulated rather than ignored because of the kneejerk BF4 hate around these forums.

The issues:

- I get an odd very short bass thumping at the very end of tails, so if I do a 5-round burst, there's a 5-thump about 4sec after I fire

- footsteps and player sounds (incl reloading) are hard to hear even at close ranges (even without gunfire, and yes my audio is turned up fairly high)

- basically only 1 audio sample per sound makes things sound very repetitive

- different weapons' levels are all different, even though they should be fairly similar

- suppressors are extremely OP, they're silencers effectively now

- sonic cracks sound like someone tapping a ruler on a snare drum or something

- the sonic cracks are cutting out the actual firing sounds it seems, meaning even without the OP silencers I'm mostly hearing cracks when in the front 120-degrees of the weapon

- the bass! constant heavy thumping thumping, especially for MX series rifles - way overdone bass at a very low frequency, hurts my head!

- most of the audio samples just sound simplified and monotonic, MIDI-like

- because the gunshots are so loud (DYNAMIC RANGE!!!) they basically clip any other sound in their same range

[Brisse 78]

And say what you will about BF4's dynamic range being unrealistic, the game sounds great, allows for great echolocation, has great environmental sound, has great EAX-type alterations, has great gunshot tails, and has amazing audio samples. You can quibble about whether the gunshots should be a bit louder, but overall it's an excellent soundscape that should be emulated rather than ignored because of the kneejerk BF4 hate around these forums.

I agree. BF4 does sound great, and I have never said otherwise :)

However! The BF4 soundscape would not fit into Arma, and I do hope that Arma developers do not try to sound like recent games in the BF series.